Double check my Paladin/Fighter

[Spore]

Heyo playground,

I am in the last strokes of converting my Pathfinder mounted character to D&D 5 and I want to see if I have overlooked any flaws.

Stout Halfling Paladin of Devotion 8/Battlemaster 3, starting with Fighter (Prof in Con saves is just too good, I'd prefer Wisdom to Strength saves but I guess it will have to do).
Background: Knight (Noble)

Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Perception and Persuasion (wait, shouldn't I have only 4?)

16/10/14/10/10/16

Feats: Mounted Combatant (before you criticize, I have a Griffon which mostly likely will be the MM Griffon with about 70 HP and 70 ft. Flightspeed), Str +1/Cha +1; on 12 I suppose Warcaster (due to my shield).
Dueling Fighting Style (Sword/Lance and Board tanking), Maneuvers: Goading Attack, Rally, Riposte (not because it's the best utility but because it penalizes attacking me while provoking attack forces to attack)

Any advice on how to play D&D 5 since we all start the game fresh (turning from a pretty powerful PF party into a somewhat average party) and I don't want characters to die just because we are unfamiliar with the game? Our party's composed of Cleric 10/Bard 1, Bear Totem Barbarian (maybe Wolf, we'll see), a homebrew bloodline Sorcerer with Int as casting stat and possibly a Fighter/Rogue or Ranger (basically a TWFing melee nightmare with high dex and low Con aka glass cannon).

[Corran]

Substitute those 3 fighter levels with 3 paladin levels, so you start as a level 11 paladin. You'll grab con save prof via resilient, which will also give you a +1 con. You want both con and wis save proficiency, so you will grab resilient anyway at some point, better to grab resilient con, as con is a more important stat to you than wis. The maneuvres are not worth postponing your 3rd level spells (look at aura of vitality), your improved divine smite and your other late features. And action surge, again, is not worth it since you are using a one handed weapon and not any -5+10 feats (meaning your at will damage is low, it is better to have improved divine smite from paladin 11, than action surge, in your case). Second wind and additional fighting style are nice, but nothing that you cannot live without. In conclusion, skip the 3fighter levels, be a level 11 paladin instead and grab resilient con. You also dont need warcaster, do not take it. Just cast a concentration spell in the first round, before you take out your weapon, and you are fine. The other benefits of this feat dont interest you, and with resilient con and aura of protection, you will never need the advantage on concentration saves. Spell OA would be good if you somehow had Booming Blade, but you dont. So dont take warcaster, you can live without it just as well. (To add to that, having a holy symbol inscribed on your shield takes care of the somatic components, definitely dont take warcaster).

I also suggest that you sseriously consider being a lightfoot halfling instead, using dex as your attacking stat, and use a rapier with a shield (you dont really need a lance for anything anyway). A level 11 lightfoot halfling paladin, would start with 10,16,13,10,10,16, taking resilient(con) at 4th level for 10,16,14,10,10,16 and proficiency in both wisdom and constitution saving throws, and at level 8 you can take another feat or increase by +2 one of your abilities. Personally, I would suggest starting with 8,14,15,8,10,15, so lightfoot halfling makes that 8,16,15,8,10,16, resilient con makes that 8,16,16,8,10,16 and you still have a free ASI from level 8 to use however you like. (And dont forget, this way you have proficiency with both wisdom and constitution saving throws.)

You dont need animal handling as a skill, the find steed spell takes care of the role that skill covers. For skills I suggest persuasion and insight from the paladin, and choose (or customize - this is RAW) a background to give you acrobatics (the dex equivalent for athletics) and perception.

Mounted combat's main benefit is the advantage on your attack. If you have a wolf barbarian you get that anyway, even if you dont, you dont really want advantage, I mean ofc it's good to have it, but you dont have any -5/+10 feats or anything else that would really profit from it. So I suggest staying away from this feat (especially if you have a wolf barbarian). If you really really want it, take it, but know there is no significant benefit in doing so.

What I want to emphasize, is, consider using dex instead of str, dex applies to dex saves (much more important than str saves, to more skills, and to the super important initiative. Your AC will suffer by 1, but it is worth the +3 to dex saves and initiative. Also, be just a paly, fighter doesnt add anything that important to you anyway, the most importnt thing you get out of this multiclass is action surge, and for you (one handed weapon build) it isnt something important to justify delaying your paladin progression. Con saves you get via resilient, it's a feat you will definitely want to take whether you multiclass or not, and it works better for you if you take it for constitution intead of wisdom. And stay away from warcaster.

ps: If you go for dexadin as I suggested, you could even take the MAM (medium armor master feat) for negating that -1 AC from using halfplate instead of full plate. Spending a feat for a +1 AC isnt worth it, but if for some reason you would like to use stealth, taking MAM would be a good choice for your 8 level feat (you must pick stealth instead of acrobatics or perception in this case though, and both those skills are important). Try to convince your DM to play with the alternative encumberance rules (detailed in the PHB), so that you wont automatically reduce your speed by wearing a half plate with a str of 10 or 8. Since you will be using a griffon anyway, that doesnt matter too much I guess.

ps2: Sentinel is a good feat ifmyou want to tank, have a look at it. If you take it you have no need for riposte and goading attack.

[bid]

I see why you did not go dexadin, that takes care of the main improvement possible.

You gain nothing from warcaster: no spell OA, already Con save, holy symbol on shield covers all M spells. It's still an issue for S non-M spells, but that's a minority.

And yes, it should be 4 skills. Remember that as stated on p125, the backgrounds suggested are just samples. Pick the feature and skills that fit your concept.

[Skeller]

Would not be able to go dex and multiclass as fighter since to multiclass into or out of paladin you need a str of 13 or higher. It could still be done if you were willing to tank a couple other things like int and wis maybe. Still not a bad option.

[Spore]

Thank you for the responses thus far.


Substitute those 3 fighter levels with 3 paladin levels, so you start as a level 11 paladin. You'll grab con save prof via resilient, which will also give you a +1 con. You want both con and wis save proficiency, so you will grab resilient anyway at some point, better to grab resilient con, as con is a more important stat to you than wis.

This only works if I go Dex build, which I will detail farther down the line. It has to do with the lance weapon I've used in the old system. You are otherwise correct.


The maneuvres are not worth postponing your 3rd level spells (look at aura of vitality), your improved divine smite and your other late features. And action surge, again, is not worth it since you are using a one handed weapon and not any -5+10 feats (meaning your at will damage is low, it is better to have improved divine smite from paladin 11, than action surge, in your case). Second wind and additional fighting style are nice, but nothing that you cannot live without. In conclusion, skip the 3fighter levels, be a level 11 paladin instead and grab resilient con.

Good point. I think I will go Paladin 11.


You also dont need warcaster, do not take it. Just cast a concentration spell in the first round, before you take out your weapon, and you are fine. The other benefits of this feat dont interest you, and with resilient con and aura of protection, you will never need the advantage on concentration saves. Spell OA would be good if you somehow had Booming Blade, but you dont. So dont take warcaster, you can live without it just as well. (To add to that, having a holy symbol inscribed on your shield takes care of the somatic components, definitely dont take warcaster).

Thank you. I needed that insight. That is also the reason why I postponed the feat to 12th level. I wanted to make some fights in the system before I chose a feat.


I also suggest that you sseriously consider being a lightfoot halfling instead, using dex as your attacking stat, and use a rapier with a shield (you dont really need a lance for anything anyway). A level 11 lightfoot halfling paladin, would start with 10,16,13,10,10,16, taking resilient(con) at 4th level for 10,16,14,10,10,16 and proficiency in both wisdom and constitution saving throws, and at level 8 you can take another feat or increase by +2 one of your abilities. Personally, I would suggest starting with 8,14,15,8,10,15, so lightfoot halfling makes that 8,16,15,8,10,16, resilient con makes that 8,16,16,8,10,16 and you still have a free ASI from level 8 to use however you like. (And dont forget, this way you have proficiency with both wisdom and constitution saving throws.)

I have gained two weapons thus far down the line. A very magical shortsword (it's bonus increases the bigger my opponent is compared to me) and a holy lance. This lance is the reason for my strength build. I know the weapon is not as good in 5. Edition but it is the most reasonable choice from griffonback. My lowlow initiative hurts in Pathfinder and it will hurt in 5. Edition. I can choose my new stats how I want it but my DM has to allow any changes for the Lance (maybe I can persuade him to allow me to use the mount's strength instead of mine for attack and damage rolls when I use this in a charge).


You dont need animal handling as a skill, the find steed spell takes care of the role that skill covers. For skills I suggest persuasion and insight from the paladin, and choose (or customize - this is RAW) a background to give you acrobatics (the dex equivalent for athletics) and perception.

The griffon is not magical but real. I will need Animal Handling for any riding I plan to do. But I have to be honest I'll have to check the rules on that again. I just feel it is very unlikely for a knight on horseback not to have animal handling.


Mounted combat's main benefit is the advantage on your attack. If you have a wolf barbarian you get that anyway, even if you dont, you dont really want advantage, I mean ofc it's good to have it, but you dont have any -5/+10 feats or anything else that would really profit from it. So I suggest staying away from this feat (especially if you have a wolf barbarian). If you really really want it, take it, but know there is no significant benefit in doing so.

My DM targets my mount often. We even have a BBEG that killed my first mount and will continue to do so. The main reason for the feat is actually the safety of the mount (untargetable, half or no damage on the often occuring Dex saves), advantage on attack rolls is just the gravy.

Further down the line, do you even realize the advantage of 80 ft. flight speed (as well as 30 ft. ground speed instead of 25).


What I want to emphasize, is, consider using dex instead of str, dex applies to dex saves (much more important than str saves, to more skills, and to the super important initiative. Your AC will suffer by 1, but it is worth the +3 to dex saves and initiative. Also, be just a paly, fighter doesnt add anything that important to you anyway, the most importnt thing you get out of this multiclass is action surge, and for you (one handed weapon build) it isnt something important to justify delaying your paladin progression. Con saves you get via resilient, it's a feat you will definitely want to take whether you multiclass or not, and it works better for you if you take it for constitution intead of wisdom. And stay away from warcaster.

I might propose the idea of a Dexadin to my DM. With Mounted Combat and Resilient (Con) I will have my 12th level choice to be picked freely. Any suggestions for the likely main tank of the group?


ps: If you go for dexadin as I suggested, you could even take the MAM (medium armor master feat) for negating that -1 AC from using halfplate instead of full plate. Spending a feat for a +1 AC isnt worth it, but if for some reason you would like to use stealth, taking MAM would be a good choice for your 8 level feat (you must pick stealth instead of acrobatics or perception in this case though, and both those skills are important). Try to convince your DM to play with the alternative encumberance rules (detailed in the PHB), so that you wont automatically reduce your speed by wearing a half plate with a str of 10 or 8. Since you will be using a griffon anyway, that doesnt matter too much I guess.

ps2: Sentinel is a good feat ifmyou want to tank, have a look at it. If you take it you have no need for riposte and goading attack.

Sentinel it is then.


I see why you did not go dexadin, that takes care of the main improvement possible.

You gain nothing from warcaster: no spell OA, already Con save, holy symbol on shield covers all M spells. It's still an issue for S non-M spells, but that's a minority.

And yes, it should be 4 skills. Remember that as stated on p125, the backgrounds suggested are just samples. Pick the feature and skills that fit your concept.

Animal Handling, Perception, Persuasion and Acrobatics it is then.


Would not be able to go dex and multiclass as fighter since to multiclass into or out of paladin you need a str of 13 or higher. It could still be done if you were willing to tank a couple other things like int and wis maybe. Still not a bad option.

Yeah I'll go pure Paladin as suggested above.