Dragonborn Sorcerer wants to become actual Dragon

[Vemynal]

Edit - At no point do I plan on permanently changing my character into an Ancient Dragon; or at least not expecting to keep playing him if it does. If the opportunity presented itself my character totally would take it, get turned into a dragon permanently, and then become an NPC and I'd likely role something else for table play.

Hey yall, I need a little help with a character I'm working up. I wanna play a Dragonborn whose trying to delve into his own innate magics to undergo apotheosis into an Ancient Dragon.
I want the characters selection of feats, abilities, skills, etc to match his obsession with becoming an actual Dragon as much as possible so please suggest any feats that I might take to assist with making the character feel even more like a dragon.

I also wanna make this character Adventure League legal because that's likely where I'll be playing him lol.

Stats:
Str 10 / Dex 14 / Con 14 / Int 12 / Wis 8 / Cha 16

One of the biggest questions I have for the playground is:
How do I get Shapechange on a Sorcerer Spell List?
It seems silly to me that the guy whose obsessed with becoming a Dragon wouldn't take the spell that allows him to temporarily turn himself into a Dragon. Its also nice that an Adult Red Dragon is CR 17 which makes it a great option at level 17 when you get the spell ;). That said, its only offered on the Wizard and Druid lists :'(

I haven't really decided what 2 Draconic backgrounds I'll give him yet. What I want to do with the character might not be possible because of AL alignment restrictions (CE) & the fact that my character would want to side with the chromatic flight lol

Thanks for the help and any suggestions!

[SwordChuck]

Ask your DM for the spell because it is thematically appropiate for you...


Or ask your DM to switch your spell list with the Druid spell list.

[Daishain]

By RAW the only way to get the spell is to multiclass to wizard, druid, or Bard. Your DM may be willing to offer an alternative option, but if so all bets are off.

If your DM is a stickler for the rules, sorcerer3/wizard17 is a not horrible combo that might represent your character discovering his heritage and then diving into the study of draconic lore. You do give up a number of dragony features, but going this route, you do eventually get True Polymorph and Wish, the two spells capable of actually fulfilling your character's goal

[SwordChuck]

By RAW the only way to get the spell is to multiclass to wizard, druid, or Bard. Your DM may be willing to offer an alternative option, but if so all bets are off.

If your DM is a stickler for the rules, sorcerer3/wizard17 is a not horrible combo that might represent your character discovering his heritage and then diving into the study of draconic lore. You do give up a number of dragony features, but going this route, you do eventually get True Polymorph and Wish, the two spells capable of actually fulfilling your character's goal

Sorcerer 3 isn't very Dragon sorcery ish... :/

How about, once you hit the approriate level, You learn the Wish spell...

"I wish that I knew the Shapechange spell (as a sorcerer spell) instead of the Wish spell"

They are both powerful spells but Wish is a bit more versitile even with the limitations set for by the spell.

[Daishain]

Sorcerer 3 isn't very Dragon sorcery ish... :/

How about, once you hit the approriate level, You learn the Wish spell...

"I wish that I knew the Shapechange spell (as a sorcerer spell) instead of the Wish spell"

They are both powerful spells but Wish is a bit more versitile even with the limitations set for by the spell.
You can just cast shapechange via wish directly. If you're going to swap it out, might as well wish he knew true polymorph, as that's what he needs to fill his ultimate objective.

Either way though, L17 is a long time to wait for any form of shapechanging.

[RulesJD]

Few thoughts:

1. Get high enough to cast Wish. But you are looking for AL legal which, because there is no T4 content yet, isn't an option.

2. Play with another person that is a Wizard. Have them cast True Polymorph/Wish on you. Again, same problems as #1 with AL legality because no way to get that high yet without a scroll/item that lets you cast those spells which doesn't exist.

3. Find a high enough level magic caster in an adventure that has Wish/True Polymorph on their spell list. Cast Mass Suggestion on the caster with the Mass Suggestion of casting True Polymorph/Wish on you and maintaining concentration for 24 hours. This would take a VERY liberal DM but I know there are casters that can cast 9th level spells and technically AL rules permit DMs to change caster spell lists. The current max level in AL is 15 I think so you'll need to find a CR 15 dragon.

3. Play HotDQ Chapter 8, get the Black Dragon Mask (RAW this is almost impossible to do but most DMs don't know that) that lets you recharge your breath weapon, legendary save, etc. Will help you seem more dragon'ish as you level. In theory you can get the full Dragon Mask at the end of Rise of Tiamat, but I don't think there's a cert for it (there is for the Black Dragon Mask) so uncertain how AL DMs will treat that.

[SwordChuck]

You can just cast shapechange via wish directly. If you're going to swap it out, might as well wish he knew true polymorph, as that's what he needs to fill his ultimate objective.

Either way though, L17 is a long time to wait for any form of shapechanging.

That is a very dangerous way to use Wish. With my way you only take the drawbacks, at the most, once.

[Daishain]

That is a very dangerous way to use Wish. With my way you only take the drawbacks, at the most, once.
You can use wish to cast lower level spells freely. No risks or drawbacks.

EDIT: sorry, for some reason was thinking shapechange was L8 not L9, you're right

[Ouranos]

I don't see a DM ever allowing a permanent change. Because a dragon is not a player race. It's a creature. It's been debated here before, and by all technicality, once you do something to permanently transform into a non-player race or creature, you are now an NPC, and owned by the DM. Sorry if it busts the bubble, trust me, I would LOVE to make my Paladin (who long story short is part silver dragon) be able to somehow permanently become a full Dragon. Dm already shot down the True Polymorph idea for the same reason.

[KorvinStarmast]

Player: My Dragonborn Sorcerer wants to become actual Dragon

DM: You can want into one hand and crap into the other. Which one do you think will fill up first?

Is it really important for your campaign to have a special snowflake in the party become a dragon?
If so, disregard the rest of my post. I suppose that it is called dungeons and dragons for a good reason.

1. Make him a dragon
2. Toss him into a dungeon.
3. ????
4. Profit!

[JoeJ]

You don't need a mechanic to have a character who wants to become a dragon; just incorporate that desire into their personality traits, ideal, bond, and/or flaw. Maybe they're always researching dragons, or looking for obscure magic items, or whatever. Just roleplay it and have fun.

As for actually succeeding in becoming a dragon, I don't think there's any way that's ever going to happen in AL. In a home game, though, you might be able to talk the DM into letting you achieve dragonhood at the end of the campaign, right about the time that you retire the character to become an NPC.

[Vemynal]

wow ok, so the "special snowflake" comment was a touch insulting but it looks like a couple other people are confused so let me be a little more clear:

At no point while playing this character will he ever permanently change into an Ancient Dragon (CR 20 - 24). Hell, I'd be surprised if my character makes it to level 20 alive. He's not exactly focused on optimization lol. The characters "goal" is to eventually permanently become an Ancient Dragon but that's only because I find the idea interesting for roleplaying purposes. As mentioned in the OP I like the idea of a Dragonborn Sorcerer delving into his heritage and trying to use his innate magic for that purpose.

I want Shapechange because it makes sense for the character that he would want that spell; there are far better options for a 9th level spell otherwise. I didn't even realize that True Polymorph could make the change permanent by Concentrating for 24 hours til someone offhand mentioned it and I looked the spell up. I still think the character would prefer Shapechange because if I'm not mistaken he can keep his spell casting. After all, being a dragon is cool. But being a dragon with 8th level spells? Hell yes.

[ImperiousLeader]

It is annoying that Sorcerers do not have Shapechange or True Polymorph on their spell list.

[manny2510]

Look for a scroll. Turning into a dragon is not balanced at all to be honest. Sorcerous origins are where your powers come from, not your raison d'etre; If I'm a wild sorcerer the best I get is being a sheep or a potted plant. Really you should be a necromancy or transmutation wizard, magic jar can get you to half-dragon, and traditionally wizards in FR become dragons. Also I'm pretty sure there's a cultist with the same motivation.

[JumboWheat01]

If I'm a wild sorcerer the best I get is being a sheep or a potted plant.

After watching Undertale, I've come to the conclusion that potted plants are devilishly strong and evil things, so don't say turning into a plant is a bad thing.

[SwordChuck]

Look for a scroll. Turning into a dragon is not balanced at all to be honest. Sorcerous origins are where your powers come from, not your raison d'etre; If I'm a wild sorcerer the best I get is being a sheep or a potted plant. Really you should be a necromancy or transmutation wizard, magic jar can get you to half-dragon, and traditionally wizards in FR become dragons. Also I'm pretty sure there's a cultist with the same motivation.

Compared to a lot of other tactics/options... Turning into a dragon is the more balanced use of a caster's time.

[Natasha]

You don't need to learn Shapechange or True Polymorph. Or Wish. You just need to get a scroll or some other magic item to cast it for you. This is a one-of event, after all. Hells, you don't even need that, you just need to talk Elminster or some other level 17+ caster to do it for you. This may include other dragons as well, considering the level of their magic.

Anyways, you'll need to be level 20 before you can end up as an Ancient Brass, so that gives plenty of time to find something. On the way up, though, you will have access to the Polymorph spell as a sorcerer, so you can play as a weaker dragon on your growth spurts.


One thing to note, however, about dragonborn in the Realms. They're notoriously anti-dragon. They actually give out quests to their young people to go out and kill dragons. Actually becoming one is going to be a rather big departure from the other dragonborn of the clans. See here for more info (http://slushlush.com/2015/12/ashes-of-the-tyrant-roundup/). Lots of links on dragonborn in the Realms there.

[SwordChuck]

You don't need to learn Shapechange or True Polymorph. Or Wish. You just need to get a scroll or some other magic item to cast it for you. This is a one-of event, after all. Hells, you don't even need that, you just need to talk Elminster or some other level 17+ caster to do it for you. This may include other dragons as well, considering the level of their magic.

Anyways, you'll need to be level 20 before you can end up as an Ancient Brass, so that gives plenty of time to find something. On the way up, though, you will have access to the Polymorph spell as a sorcerer, so you can play as a weaker dragon on your growth spurts.


One thing to note, however, about dragonborn in the Realms. They're notoriously anti-dragon. They actually give out quests to their young people to go out and kill dragons. Actually becoming one is going to be a rather big departure from the other dragonborn of the clans. See here for more info (http://slushlush.com/2015/12/ashes-of-the-tyrant-roundup/). Lots of links on dragonborn in the Realms there.

Magic Items are not a part of the base rules for 5e. Saying "get a magic item" is harder than asking for a spell list switch. The DM has to say yes to both, yes, but with the spell list change you don't have a 9th level spell plus a magic item that shoots off a 9th level spell.

[Daishain]

One thing to note, however, about dragonborn in the Realms. They're notoriously anti-dragon. They actually give out quests to their young people to go out and kill dragons. Actually becoming one is going to be a rather big departure from the other dragonborn of the clans. See here for more info (http://slushlush.com/2015/12/ashes-of-the-tyrant-roundup/). Lots of links on dragonborn in the Realms there.
I was under the impression that such was 4E specific, the 3.5E lore had them all as servants of Bahamut, the king of metallic dragons. I have seen nothing for 5E lore that indicates anything about a particular relationship, positive or negative, between dragonborn and dragons.

Granted, I haven't had a chance to peruse the SCAG, which might talk about this. But unless it confirmed this, I don't think you can make assumptions like that about which version of the realms another DM has in mind. Especially given how many people prefer ignoring 4E entirely.

[Vemynal]

Nothing in the books:
PHB:
"Some are faithful servants to true dragons"

From SCAG:
"slaves to dragons on their world of origin", "dragonborn are not the creation of bahamut or tiamat", (summarized) from abeir but displaced during the spell plague formed Tymanther (their nation).

But online resources on the otherhand... =x

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tymanther
This however does site the "Lance Defenders" and that the Dragonborn ruler of Tymanther hates dragons and enforces the hatred in others.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonborn
In the opening line lol

[Natasha]

I was under the impression that such was 4E specific, the 3.5E lore had them all as servants of Bahamut, the king of metallic dragons. I have seen nothing for 5E lore that indicates anything about a particular relationship, positive or negative, between dragonborn and dragons.

Granted, I haven't had a chance to peruse the SCAG, which might talk about this. But unless it confirmed this, I don't think you can make assumptions like that about which version of the realms another DM has in mind. Especially given how many people prefer ignoring 4E entirely. The OP is making an Adventure Leage character. That means we're going with cannon Forgotten Realms lore. Erin M Evans is one of the three current novelists for WotC, and the stuff the novels print are considered part of cannon FR; the latest bit of information I linked from her is specifcally from the Rage of Demons era. So its an entirely valid link for what the poster suggested.

I should note that there does exist a small group of Bahamut paladin dragonborn. However, it is notable that they are also outcasts from FR dragonborn society. Being outcast from society is not an automatic "you can't play this!" concept. But it is something that the player might be interested in knowing

And 3e never had dragonborn. It had a collection of half-dragons, champions of bahamut who were transformed by magic, spell scales, and some other races. Not to mention that 3e defaulted to Greyhawk, and not the Realms lore. No reason to bring that up that edition at all other than to be disagreeable. 4e lore had a lot of Bahamut / Tiamat worship going on for the dragonborn in Nentir Vale, as well as the majority of dragons having associations with dragonborn; dislike of dragons was the exception, not the norm, so again, not really applicable.

EDIT - if you dont' believe me, check out Candlekeep forums. They're the best resource when it comes to Realms lore on the internet, especially with how the writers post on their fairly frequently.

[SwordChuck]

The OP is making an Adventure Leage character. That means we're going with cannon Forgotten Realms lore. Erin M Evans is one of the three current novelists for WotC, and the stuff the novels print are considered part of cannon FR; the latest bit of information I linked from her is specifcally from the Rage of Demons era. So its an entirely valid link for what the poster suggested.

I should note that there does exist a small group of Bahamut paladin dragonborn. However, it is notable that they are also outcasts from FR dragonborn society. Being outcast from society is not an automatic "you can't play this!" concept. But it is something that the player might be interested in knowing

And 3e never had dragonborn. It had a collection of half-dragons, champions of bahamut who were transformed by magic, spell scales, and some other races. Not to mention that 3e defaulted to Greyhawk, and not the Realms lore. No reason to bring that up that edition at all other than to be disagreeable. 4e lore had a lot of Bahamut / Tiamat worship going on for the dragonborn in Nentir Vale, as well as the majority of dragons having associations with dragonborn; dislike of dragons was the exception, not the norm, so again, not really applicable.

EDIT - if you dont' believe me, check out Candlekeep forums. They're the best resource when it comes to Realms lore on the internet, especially with how the writers post on their fairly frequently.

Dragonborn of Bahamut. Really really really awesome template thingie that I wished they expanded upon. I actually like the idea of a Dragonborn template more so than a Dragonborn race.