Illithids: How to Keep Your Brain

[ZhanStrider]

What are the most effective spells/psionic powers/weapons/tactics for killing Illithids?
Is throwing a paladin at them a good plan?

[daremetoidareyo]

Freedom of movement. They need to grapple to get that brain out. Freedom of movement is so broadly worded that all grappling is denied.

And then you need some means of stun immunity. And then mindblank.

Handling mindflayers is all about gear.

[Flickerdart]

Everything below assumes a solitary 8th level character vs a solitary CR8 illithid. Real illithid encounters are likely to be between a party of ~4 adventurers and a group of the mind flayer's dominated slaves, at which point it really depends on what slaves it has.

Melee combat: Illithids prefer to fight at range, and it's clear to see why - with a mere 44 HP and an AC of 15, melee combat is a great way to turn an illithid into sashimi. They have a respectable initiative mod of +6, but if you can survive their mind blast, it's likely that a single charge will end them. Expect an illithid to know this, however, and attack from an unassailable position (on a ledge, behind some difficult terrain, or levitating with psionics). A means of flight or teleportation will ensure that you can reach the mind flayer, but a mundane item like a net could also bring it down.

Grapple: Only stupid illithids, of which there are none, attempt to use grapple on warriors. Their modifier of +7 is pathetic, since a fighter will have +8 just from BAB. It also needs three turns to eat brains - one to hit with a tentacle, one to attach the rest, and one to extract. With an attack modifier of +8, an inability to pounce, and its crappy grapple modifier, the illithid will be lucky to land one tentacle on turn 1. Don't be afraid of getting into a tangle with an illithid, but bring a dagger just to be safe.

Ranged combat: The mind flayer's only real threats are its Mind Blast (range 60ft, Will DC 17) and suggestion (range 45ft, Will DC 16), and plane shift (touch, Will DC 20). Staying out of this range renders it powerless, so archers will have a field day. The mind flayer knows this and will not appear in terrain that grants its enemies long line of sight. The mind flayer's fantastic SR of 25 makes it robust against enemy spellcasters, but those same casters will be the strongest against its psionics due to their high Will saves.

Pursuit: There is little that can be done against an illithid deciding to run away with plane shift. Do not give it an opportunity to escape; go for the kill as quickly as you are able. Be very careful when an illithid tries to use this against you, though - it starves the mind flayer of its prey, but strands you somewhere nasty. Make sure you have Mage Slayer so the illithid can't use this defensively.

Note that undead are immune to stunning and brain extraction, making them effective illithid hunters.

Paladins do okay against mind flayers, but I would use a cleric. Their high Will saves combined with their melee prowess give the mind flayer no opportunity for escape, and they can bring a scroll of plane shift to get back home in case of a poor roll. Evil clerics can bring rebuked undead to pit against the mind flayer or its minions. If the flayer is hard to charge, the cleric can switch to archery, using Zen Archery and Knowledge Devotion to rack up decent damage potential.

If you must use a paladin, then your goal is to close in as quickly as possible. Use a flying mount (you can get one of CR4 or lower) or a burrowing one (CR5 or lower) to get close and personal, and then beat its face with quick Smite Evil. One attack should be enough to kill it, especially if you are a lance-based charger. A paladin with a +1 valorous lance and Spirited Charger multiplies damage by three, meaning he scores 24 damage from the Smite, at least that much again from his Strength, and around 15 points from his lance's base damage. More than enough to nuke the squid-face.

[ZhanStrider]

Everything below assumes a solitary 8th level character vs a solitary CR8 illithid. Real illithid encounters are likely to be between a party of ~4 adventurers and a group of the mind flayer's dominated slaves, at which point it really depends on what slaves it has.

Melee combat: Illithids prefer to fight at range, and it's clear to see why - with a mere 44 HP and an AC of 15, melee combat is a great way to turn an illithid into sashimi. They have a respectable initiative mod of +6, but if you can survive their mind blast, it's likely that a single charge will end them. Expect an illithid to know this, however, and attack from an unassailable position (on a ledge, behind some difficult terrain, or levitating with psionics). A means of flight or teleportation will ensure that you can reach the mind flayer, but a mundane item like a net could also bring it down.

Grapple: Only stupid illithids, of which there are none, attempt to use grapple on warriors. Their modifier of +7 is pathetic, since a fighter will have +8 just from BAB. It also needs three turns to eat brains - one to hit with a tentacle, one to attach the rest, and one to extract. With an attack modifier of +8, an inability to pounce, and its crappy grapple modifier, the illithid will be lucky to land one tentacle on turn 1. Don't be afraid of getting into a tangle with an illithid, but bring a dagger just to be safe.

Ranged combat: The mind flayer's only real threats are its Mind Blast (range 60ft, Will DC 17) and suggestion (range 45ft, Will DC 16), and plane shift (touch, Will DC 20). Staying out of this range renders it powerless, so archers will have a field day. The mind flayer knows this and will not appear in terrain that grants its enemies long line of sight. The mind flayer's fantastic SR of 25 makes it robust against enemy spellcasters, but those same casters will be the strongest against its psionics due to their high Will saves.

Pursuit: There is little that can be done against an illithid deciding to run away with plane shift. Do not give it an opportunity to escape; go for the kill as quickly as you are able. Be very careful when an illithid tries to use this against you, though - it starves the mind flayer of its prey, but strands you somewhere nasty. Make sure you have Mage Slayer so the illithid can't use this defensively.

Note that undead are immune to stunning and brain extraction, making them effective illithid hunters.

Paladins do okay against mind flayers, but I would use a cleric. Their high Will saves combined with their melee prowess give the mind flayer no opportunity for escape, and they can bring a scroll of plane shift to get back home in case of a poor roll. Evil clerics can bring rebuked undead to pit against the mind flayer or its minions. If the flayer is hard to charge, the cleric can switch to archery, using Zen Archery and Knowledge Devotion to rack up decent damage potential.

If you must use a paladin, then your goal is to close in as quickly as possible. Use a flying mount (you can get one of CR4 or lower) or a burrowing one (CR5 or lower) to get close and personal, and then beat its face with quick Smite Evil. One attack should be enough to kill it, especially if you are a lance-based charger. A paladin with a +1 valorous lance and Spirited Charger multiplies damage by three, meaning he scores 24 damage from the Smite, at least that much again from his Strength, and around 15 points from his lance's base damage. More than enough to nuke the squid-face.

That's good! Thanks!

[Fouredged Sword]

There is another wrinkle in fighting an Illithid. You don't just fight an Illithid. You fight an Illithid + whatever thralls it has.

Now, because Illithids select thralls for specific traits we can use the same weaknesses the Illithid exploits to fight them. Illithid normally use strong medium or large humanoids, monstrous humanoids, or giants. What do these creatures have in common? Bad willsave. This means you can take care of most of an Illithid's thralls with a good SOL willsave spell.

Fighters, be prepped to get past the meatshields and get to the main threat quickly. Killing the Illithid will free the thralls. This may or may nor earn you allies in your next fight. They may keep fighting you though, so don't count on it.

[Essence_of_War]

That's good! Thanks!

Consider the Sanctified Mind prc from LoM. It has some annoying entrace requirements as a Paladin (Iron Will, blah, 1 PP?, double blargh) but it advances Divine Casting, has full BAB, two good saves, but the interesting thing is that it gets Partition Mind at the first level of the class, which has nice synergy with the Paladin's high charisma, and will make sure that a single failed Will save doesn't end the encounter with "and it eats your brain".

[Flickerdart]

There is another wrinkle in fighting an Illithid. You don't just fight an Illithid. You fight an Illithid + whatever thralls it has.
Not really. Look at the Organization line of mind flayers - by the time minions come into equation, there are two hitches:

There are 3-5 illithids, meaning the encounter's CR is already ~12 before the monsters even show
The minions are grimlocks, who are useless CR1 mooks that can't even see beyond 40 feet.


Sure, the DM can ignore that line and add other minions, but the DM can also change the illithid's feats or advance it. Even if the DM adds better minions, better minions have a higher CR, and the mind flayer's crappy base numbers mean that it becomes less scary the more minions you add.

[Doctor Despair]

If you're still considering classes, the Slayer class is fluff-wise geared toward killing Illithids iirc. :)

[Fitz10019]

Should Horrible Taste [SpComp.p116] be an effective defense against Illithids' brain stealing? They take them to eat them, right?

[Flickerdart]

Should Horrible Taste [SpComp.p116] be an effective defense against Illithids' brain stealing? They take them to eat them, right?
No. Despite its name, horrid taste provides no protection from being eaten, and serves only as a deterrent for bite attacks. Creatures with Swallow Whole are similarly unaffected.

There is also no evidence that illithids actually taste the brains they consume. Do they have tongues? Do their senses include taste?

[Blackhawk748]

Protection from Evil is your friend. Say hello to being immune to those pesky compulsion effects, and the +2 to saves and AC never hurt anyone either. For a Paladin you can get this with Topaz Guadian, it gets you a continuous protection from evil style effect, except that both bonuses are Sacred, so they would stack with the actual spell. You get Smite Aberration a few times per day and a bonus on grapple checks. The pre Reqs are easy to meet as a Pally, though the skill ranks do suck.

[ZhanStrider]

Not really. Look at the Organization line of mind flayers - by the time minions come into equation, there are two hitches:

There are 3-5 illithids, meaning the encounter's CR is already ~12 before the monsters even show
The minions are grimlocks, who are useless CR1 mooks that can't even see beyond 40 feet.


Sure, the DM can ignore that line and add other minions, but the DM can also change the illithid's feats or advance it. Even if the DM adds better minions, better minions have a higher CR, and the mind flayer's crappy base numbers mean that it becomes less scary the more minions you add.

They WILL have classes. I know the Main one is part cleric

[Andezzar]

If you're still considering classes, the Slayer class is fluff-wise geared toward killing Illithids iirc. :)Yes, the not freely available version in XPH is actually called Illithid Slayer.

[SirNMN]

if I am the DM then the then you face the Grimlock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grimlock.htm)voidmind (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/voidmind.shtml)and about half adozen of them to boot

[Ursus Spelaeus]

if I am the DM then the then you face the Grimlock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grimlock.htm)voidmind (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/voidmind.shtml)and about half adozen of them to boot

Does this template work with the mindsight feat?

[Beheld]

1) You want immunity to stunning, undead, some spells, or polymorph effects can grant this. Druid can get this with Plant immunities pretty easily. But remember that Elementals are also immune.

2) Magic Circle against Alignment. This creates and AoE, it makes you immune to their suggestion and enthrall, and any enemy thralls that approach within range it's a will save or sort of turn to your side. You can also do this with summons and other things that have magic circle effects.

[Flickerdart]

if I am the DM then the then you face the Grimlock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grimlock.htm)voidmind (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/voidmind.shtml)and about half adozen of them to boot
Oh no, six CR2 creatures. They are about CR 7 together, making an encounter with them and an illithid master suitable for level 9 characters. Even if they were level 5s (and this was an all-out boss battle) what do you think these crappy voidminds could do? Just about all they could do is shoot their useless DC12 puke cones, and deal a few d6 damage to the party before they all die to a fireball or a fighter passing by.

[Cirrylius]

There is also no evidence that illithids actually taste the brains they consume. Do they have tongues? Do their senses include taste?
IIRC in the Illithiad they detail culinary arenas wherein a single connoisseur noms a brain while the rest experience it psycho-voyeuristically, and fluff about thralls annointing their heads with yummy fragrant oils before being eaten.

That said, off the top of my head I doubt Horrible Taste would be an especially useful deterrent unless Mind Flayers had taste buds in their tentacles, too.

Or unless the target had multiple heads, I guess.:smalltongue: