Newbie in need of help

[Ashley_Chaos]

Hi guys been looking around for a forum to talk D&D and this one seemed pretty active so first post here :smallsmile: I'm a newbie, have been playing 40k for years but have recently ventured into D&D. Played about 4 games now my friend has ran (havn't DM'd just been a party member) and liking the social aspect compared to 40K. Both will have a place in my free time, still love a competitive game of 40K but really liking the chance to play with a group of old friends who aren't really gamers and have a laugh.

I now however really want to create my own game and playtest it myself (yes sad I know) before I attempt to DM for our group. Does anyone have any advice on how to go about creating something to play? I know I need to brush up on my rules and I don't have the money right now to shell out on the DMs handbook but can anyone offer any advice for making a simple game. The tools I have at my disposal are....

Starter set (starter set rulebook / lost mines supplement)
Printed copy of the free rules from Wizards website
4x sets of dice
Party member minis (all classes)
Bunch of enemy minis
Big dungeon floor tile pack (can connect together)
Some door minis

Any help would be greatly received, trying to put something together for Xmas this year.

The thing I'm really struggling with too... is making a short game really as simple as forging a narrative, some exploration, skill checks (do you call them that?) and a few encounters. I think I can work something out based on this but I'm unsure whether these 'tests' or checks' are done purely against your skills e.g. "Athletics test for running up a slippery slope" or can be done also against your main stats e.g. "Strength test for moving a large boulder".
Also another thing I'm really not sure on is stealth. How does this work? Does someone announce they want to creep up on something and roll a D20? I know they get their stealth modifier (and disadvantage if wearing certain armour) but what do they roll against/what number do they need for the creeping to be successful?

Thanks again for any replies, Ash

[Ashley_Chaos]

Ok so I did a bit of digging and it seems like you use Skill checks where possible, if nothing fits use an ability check. Still stuck on how stealth works though :S

[Zman]

Firstly, as a long time competitive 40k player who has stopped playing and unloaded virtually all their 40k, "forge the narrative" just made me cringe.

The best way to create a story is to focus on story arcs. I like to pick a region, then come up with some story arcs that are going on in the background. Some arcs are main and large, others are small and side. Once the party is placed in part of the world the begin interacting with it and can counter clues or hooks for those story arcs and begin to explore them.

Ok, you are a bit confused on skills. Skill checks are not seperate from ability checks, they are actually a form or subset of ability checks that can apply. Your example, running up a slippery slope is a Strength check, but the athletics skill can be used to increase their check. Convincing someone is a Charisma check, but one that the Persuasion skill can apply to. That means a character enhanced their proficient skills by their proficiency bonus.

A stealth check is vs the perceptio(passive or active) of the creatures that are being snuck up on.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Creating a Game

Running a game isn't easy. It takes a lot of work to do well. I typically spend twice as long preparing as I do playing. You've got to enjoy that part of it too.

I would suggest that the first thing you do is create a villain (or several). They drive the story. Decide what it is they want and how they plan to get it. Then, have them react to the PCs. If one part of the plan is thwarted, have the villain do something risky in order to recover their position. Maybe they'll form an alliance with some devils, giving you a new story element to play with.

It's also important to consider your PCs' personal story arcs. Maybe one of them is a chef. Find a way for them to become an apprentice to a master baker, who in turn introduces the party to a secret passageway into the castle, or something. That gives the players the sense that their characters are developing and achieving their personal goals, while also contributing to the story.

General Tips

Don't be afraid to wing it. Your players will always end up wanting to try something outside the box that the rules don't cover. As the DM, you have the power to make up your own rules. This is what sets D&D apart from a computer game - you can adjudicate any situation that arises, as opposed to being limited to the preset list that the programmers came up with.

Have information at your fingertips. Your PCs' passive scores (perception, investigation and insight), their ACs, the languages they speak, stat blocks for the monsters you're using, spell cards, etc... Have it on-hand so it's there when you need it.

The DMG

Buy the DMG. It is a great book that contains some really important tools. Page 82 especially is indispensable.

It's also got some lovely artwork!

Stealth

Stealth comes up all the time, so it'd be a good idea to wrap your head around that before you start running a game.

Different DMs do it differently. I typically assume that every creature that isn't actively doing something else is 'passively perceiving', and someone who has specified that they are 'on lookout' or whatever is 'actively perceiving'.

If someone wants to hide or move undetected, they make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. If that beats the perception (active roll or passive score, as the case may be) of whoever they're hiding from, they remain hidden. Normally, you need to be heavily obscured or invisible if you want to try and hide.

So, if the party is walking along a road and there are some goblins hidden in the bushes, I roll a stealth check for the goblins (probably one check for the group). If the roll is under someone's passive perception, I'll tell them that they see something in the bushes. Otherwise, they see nothing and the goblins will get a surprise round when they spring their ambush. If one of the PCs said they would 'scout ahead', I'd ask them to roll Wisdom (Perception), potentially giving them a chance to see the goblins even if they got a good stealth roll. Then there's no surprise round.

Other Skills

Zman is right; skill checks are a subset or ability checks. For an ability check, you roll 1d20 and add your ability modifier. Example: pushing over a heavy statue is a Strength check. If a skill is relevant, the check becomes a skill check. This means that the character can add their proficiency bonus if they are proficient in that skill (so if you're not proficient, the skill check is identical to the ability check). Example: climbing a cliff face is a Strength (Athletics) check.

The PHB explains what each skill is for. Athletics, for example, is usually used for strength checks that involve doing something to yourself - running, climbing, swimming, etc. Strength checks where you act on someone else (except for grappling) are usually not athletics checks.

Whenever you call for a check, have a target DC in mind. 10 is something that a normal person could do some of the time. 15 is hard for a normal person. 20 is something that you wouldn't try unless you had some training/aptitude. 30 is nearly impossible, even for epic-level PCs. Don't be afraid to leave it fuzzy though. Maybe you're looking for 15, but they roll a 14. Perhaps that's good enough? Perhaps it works, but there's some added wrinkle or cost.

Don't call for an ability check if there's no chance of success. Just tell them it won't work. Don't call for an ability check if there's no chance of failure. That's a waste of time; just tell them it works and move forward. Don't call for an ability check if there's no cost to failure, because then they'll just keep trying until they succeed. Cut out the middleman and tell them they succeed. Maybe use their passive score to determine how long it takes, if that matters. And if your players roll the dice before you call for a check, don't feel bound by what's on the dice. If they're trying to do something that's flat-out impossible ("I jump into the air and punch the moon to pieces"), that natural 20 doesn't mean anything.

[Ashley_Chaos]

Thanks Zman think forging the narrative somehow slipped into my subconscious from 40K, sorry about that lol, may I ask why you stopped? There are lots of reasons I may too tbh! Thank you for the clarification makes more sense now.

Wow thanks Ninja_Prawn also, that is way clearer than anything I have as reference! been trawling through the internet to try work out Stealth but you cleared my confusion right up. I really want to buy all the books and will definitely get the DMG just gunna have to wait till got some spare cash.

Thanks guys, I'm sure I'll have more queries soon! Cheers, Ash

[Ninja_Prawn]

40K... may I ask why you stopped?

I also played 40k but then stopped (1999-2008). For me, it just got too corporate and commercialised. I mean, look at the White Dwarf magazine. That really started going downhill* when 'Fat Bloke' Sawyer stepped down as editor.

I played Gothic as well, and I might have gotten into Inquisitor if I'd known anyone else that played it, but then GW stopped supporting the specialist games. That was lame.

Also, they stopped doing individual components on Mail Order. I mean, I understand how that must have been an efficiency nightmare, but it was so useful when you were converting stuff.

*Alternate theory: the magazine didn't change, but I went from being a child to an adult and started actually noticing how bad it was.

[Shining Wrath]

For a first time DM start small. Lower level campaign; small region. Outside the immediate area where the players start you need only a vague idea; there's probably someone who rules the immediate area, a Baron or equivalent, and they report to ... someone. Decide if your rulers are helpful or hands-off or actively working against the party. Have one town they start in, a couple of dungeons to explore, and whatever other things you need for a plot.

It's probably easiest for an initial campaign if your players are good or neutral in alignment and trying to save the village (or whatever) from bad guys. There's just more evil monsters, for starters. Eventually you will need a Monster Manual. Don't let the players multi-class the first campaign, that is pretty much the only way to create a truly bad 5e character. You can also create some optimal ones, and it will be harder for you if player A has a confused botch of a character while player B has an uber monster destroyer.

There's basically 4 types of rolls - attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.

Attack rolls are used for weapons and spell attacks.
Saving throws are used when someone tries to do something TO a character (or one of your monsters), and a particular ability score maps to resisting or avoiding that something.
Ability checks are used when the character (or the monster) tries to do something, and a particular ability score maps to doing that.
A skill check is an ability check where one of the listed skills is applicable to what the character is trying to do; if they are proficient in that skill, they get to add their proficiency bonus to their roll, in addition to their ability score modifier.



For all these rolls, the process is

Roll D20
Add ability modifier for the appropriate ability score
Add proficiency bonus if the character is proficient in what they are trying to do - with the weapon, with the skill, et cetera


For example, a wizard attacking with a Firebolt cantrip rolls D20, adds their Intelligence modifier (Wizards use INT for spellcasting), and adds their proficiency bonus (+2 at first level, up to +6 at high levels). If that beats the target AC, someone gets singed. A fighter with a greatsword rolls D20, adds their Strength, and adds their proficiency bonus, compare to AC. But a wizard attacking with a greatsword rolls D20, adds their Strength modifier, and then does NOT add a proficiency bonus, as Wizards aren't proficient with greatswords.

Attack rolls are against the targets armor class, usually supplied for the creature. The other three you, the dungeon master, must set the DC (Difficulty Class). 5=easy, 10=normal, 15=hard, 20, 25, 30 varying levels of "harder". Don't be afraid to use numbers like "12" or "8" for things that split the difference; integer multiples of 5 are not required.

Sometimes people use their "passive" ability. The most common is Perception; you can notice things without trying. The other one I make common use of passive scores for is Insight; you can sometimes get a feeling someone's lying even if you aren't actively suspicious.

You will have to wing it sometimes. 5e has a "rulings, not rules" philosophy. Sometimes you'll be wrong. When you realize you made a mistake, admit it, and try to set it right.

Relax, you'll do fine, have fun.

[Zman]

Thanks Zman think forging the narrative somehow slipped into my subconscious from 40K, sorry about that lol, may I ask why you stopped? There are lots of reasons I may too tbh! Thank you for the clarification makes more sense now.

Wow thanks Ninja_Prawn also, that is way clearer than anything I have as reference! been trawling through the internet to try work out Stealth but you cleared my confusion right up. I really want to buy all the books and will definitely get the DMG just gunna have to wait till got some spare cash.

Thanks guys, I'm sure I'll have more queries soon! Cheers, Ash

You are welcome. I was a very competitive player, think playing with the big boys nationally, and when 6th and 7th happened it was hard to stomach, I did not want Apocalypse forced upon me. I had hope in 7th when the first half dozen codices were scaled back and far more internally and externally balanced than they had been, I figured just wait it out and as soon as they get through Tau, Eldar, and Daemons the game will be scaled back and playable again. Then Necron and Eldar happened. I was done, I knew it would be years of utter crap balance again. Sold off everything except my pretty and favorite Farsight Tau army I wrecked with at Nova last year. I may be persuaded for an occasional beer and pretzels game with my Tau, but have vowed never to give GW another dollar for destroying a game I loved and played for a long time. I had been in and out of the game since 4th ed, would get competitive, feel like I mastered the game, its horrid flaws would become too much to bear, I'd get out for a year or so, then get back in, get competitive, find they still can't write rules, get out, get back in, play a GT or two, etc etc. GW can't write balanced rules, has no idea what a point is worth anymore, and charges exorbitant amounts of money or utter garbage rules.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Sometimes people use their "passive" ability. The most common is Perception; you can notice things without trying. The other one I make common use of passive scores for is Insight; you can sometimes get a feeling someone's lying even if you aren't actively suspicious.

For me, the other big passive skill is Dexterity (Thieves' Tools). If there's no time pressure (or some fancy lock that only allows one try before sealing permanently), lock-picking should be a passive check - you just keep going until you either crack it or realise it's beyond your skills.

I agree that a Monster Manual will be useful... but the DMG has a decent create-your-own monster section, so you could always lean on that in the absence of a Manual.

Some more tips:

If you've got time, look up some videos of other people playing D&D. Watching other people DM can be useful - whether they're setting a good example or not. Learning from your mistakes is fine, but learning from other people's mistakes is much better! I recommend Chris Perkins' Acquisitions Incorporated games at PAX, Jon Bolding's Hoard of the Dragon Queen games for the Escapist and Brandon Zuern's Heroes of Awesome games for the Weirdlings.

Read the Angry DM's blog. He's a genius.

Don't be tempted to introduce a DMPC. Just don't do it.

[Shining Wrath]

For me, the other big passive skill is Dexterity (Thieves' Tools). If there's no time pressure (or some fancy lock that only allows one try before sealing permanently), lock-picking should be a passive check - you just keep going until you either crack it or realise it's beyond your skills.

I agree that a Monster Manual will be useful... but the DMG has a decent create-your-own monster section, so you could always lean on that in the absence of a Manual.

Some more tips:

If you've got time, look up some videos of other people playing D&D. Watching other people DM can be useful - whether they're setting a good example or not. Learning from your mistakes is fine, but learning from other people's mistakes is much better! I recommend Chris Perkins' Acquisitions Incorporated games at PAX, Jon Bolding's Hoard of the Dragon Queen games for the Escapist and Brandon Zuern's Heroes of Awesome games for the Weirdlings.

Read the Angry DM's blog. He's a genius.

Don't be tempted to introduce a DMPC. Just don't do it.

A DMPC is not a good idea for a first-time DM. It can work with an experienced one; the DMPC should be there to fill a hole or two, or just for the fun factor, but should never be the party face or the party knowbot. A Life Cleric with a vow of silence makes a fine DMPC :smallsmile:

[Ashley_Chaos]

Thanks shining wrath some good advice there, printing all this off to go in the d&d folder! Yeah I'm sure the game will go fine, even though I'm DMing the usual DM (who's excited about finally getting to play) will be on hand to guide on rules if need be. But yeah won't be afraid to wing it and just call a dice roll if we get really stuck.

Yeah GW dropping the specialist games was really lame, the games still have a cult following and it feels like they're just interested in profits not customers these days. Havn't read white dwarf since I was younger but yea by all accounts it's like one big advert these days. Oh and if you havn't seen Age of Sh*tmar, please don't, it'll only make you sad :(

Know what you mean Zman about the lack of balance, it's crazy they write rulebooks and codexes then flat out say "we are not a games company, we are a minatures company". I know only too well playing CSMs which is a real struggle to win, especially when your best friend plays Necron.
Really sucks that we both have the new generation codexes yet his one has 'formations' when mine doesn't, they give an already good army a massive buff.

That said they do make really good minatures! The majority of my D&D stuff is GW in some form or another be it old heroquest models, or WHFB chaos dwarfs, goblins, vampire counts, skaven etc...
I don't give much money to GW directly, buy a few paints now and again (technical paints are cool) and their primer, but buy all my models on ebay most of which are older and OOP.

[Vogonjeltz]

Ok so I did a bit of digging and it seems like you use Skill checks where possible, if nothing fits use an ability check. Still stuck on how stealth works though :S

Stealth works in two ways, but as far as the hider is concerned, they just make a Dexterity (stealth) check.

Anyone who might find them is either:
1) Not looking for anything = Wisdom (perception) score vs the dexterity (stealth) check
2) Searching = Wisdom (perception) check vs the dexterity (stealth) check.

It's the difference between someone just walking along, and someone actually looking for threats.

And of course, this can all be modified by advantage/disadvantage, as trying to find someone who is in a lightly obscured area (i.e. dim light) will impose disadvantage on the check. You as DM could also throw advantage/disadvantage on a check as you might decide it should be pretty easy to spot someone (like, a person opens a box, they 'probably' should see anyone hiding inside...but there are reasons they might not: distracted, only glancing inside, subject is hiding against the near wall of the box giving themselves a very low profile, poor lighting, inattentional blindness, etc...)

[Shining Wrath]

Stealth works in two ways, but as far as the hider is concerned, they just make a Dexterity (stealth) check.

Anyone who might find them is either:
1) Not looking for anything = Wisdom (perception) score vs the dexterity (stealth) check
2) Searching = Wisdom (perception) check vs the dexterity (stealth) check.

It's the difference between someone just walking along, and someone actually looking for threats.

And of course, this can all be modified by advantage/disadvantage, as trying to find someone who is in a lightly obscured area (i.e. dim light) will impose disadvantage on the check. You as DM could also throw advantage/disadvantage on a check as you might decide it should be pretty easy to spot someone (like, a person opens a box, they 'probably' should see anyone hiding inside...but there are reasons they might not: distracted, only glancing inside, subject is hiding against the near wall of the box giving themselves a very low profile, poor lighting, inattentional blindness, etc...)

I think you meant to differentiate between "passive perception" (1) and "rolling for perception" (2).

There are opposed skill checks, of which "Stealth" versus "Perception" is the classic one. OTOH, if the searcher knows someone is there (e.g., a Rogue attacked and managed to hide afterward, but the searcher is pretty certain the knife wound in their back is real), you might use "Investigate" as the searcher's skill, as they attempt to systematically eliminate every possible hiding place. Each shadowy spot or dark corner in turn is illuminated with the bullseye lantern - but do they think to check the ceiling?