Highest strength in core?

[Eladrinblade]

Using just the PHB races and the material found in the core 3 books, can you beat a strength score of 54? I believe it is the highest achievable, but I'm curious if anybody knows any tricks.

Here's how:

Base 18
Half orc 20
20th level 25
wish 30
belt of giant str 36
righteous might item 40
barbarian rage 44
mighty rage 48
dragon disciple (10th level) 52
rage spell 54
Hammer of Thunderbolts 56
or
Sword of Kas 58

Has anyone done this kind of thing for other scores?

[Grod_The_Giant]

You can get a bit more strength with 10 levels of Dragon Disciple (netting you a total of +8, or +12 with first level Barbarian Rage). Also, I'm not sure the Rage spell stacks with the Barbarian's rage, since it notes that "The effect is otherwise identical."

[Eladrinblade]

A barbarian rage strength bonus is an untyped bonus, whereas the rage spell strength is a morale bonus.

Good idea with the dragon disciple, I'll add that in.

[Eldan]

Well, technically? It's silly, though and not playable. How? Huge level starting race. After a short look, you want a giant.

Fire Giant: Strength +20, 15 RHD, +4 LA.

Giants can also be lycanthropes. A direwerebear or dire wereboar fire giant has a total of +36 racial strength.

Starting value of 18, racial +36 is 54. That's before spells and items. So, we probably get around 70-80 total.

[Forrestfire]

Not sure about other stats, but it's possible to beat that in Core if you use more magic:

Base score 39 (shapechange scroll into a Storm Giant)
Belt of Giant Strength +6 = 45
Death knell +2 = 48
Righteous might +4 = 52
Rage +2 = 54
Mighty Rage +8 = 62 before artifacts.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Add in Shapechange and CL boosters to get a high Str form. It's too bad you can't become the tarrasque because of the HD cap, though.

[Eladrinblade]

Does death knell stack with itself?

Why CL boosters?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Does death knell stack with itself?It does not. Same source stacking rule.


Why CL boosters?To boost the level of forms you have available. Epic isn't supported in Core, and without CL boosters you can't get past level 20.

[Eladrinblade]

Okay, I just read through shapechange, and the tarrasque is not prohibited due to HD, but to uniqueness. If you can boost your CL to 24 you would be able to become one, but it's the only of it's kind.

Titans, however, have 43 strength at HD 20.

Got it: Great Wyrm Gold Dragon at 47 strength at 41 HD. You just need an orange prism ioun stone.

[noob]

Progress until infinite level(allowed) and spend one point every 4 levels in str.
You can have arbitrarily high strength with core only non cheesy stuff.
The problem is not restrained enough.

[Eladrinblade]

Not sure about other stats, but it's possible to beat that in Core if you use more magic:

Base score 39 (shapechange scroll into a Storm Giant)
Belt of Giant Strength +6 = 45
Death knell +2 = 47
Righteous might +4 = 51
Rage +2 = 53
Mighty Rage +8 = 61 before artifacts.

Going this kind of route, as a 20th level barbarian, if you can muster up at least 19 charisma via a cloak of charisma, and manage a UMD check of DC 40 (11 ranks, 12 from max-ish charisma, 3 from circlet of persuasion, 1 from luckstone, 1 from pale green prism ioun stone, 2 from decipher script synergy, 2 from spellcraft synergy, 2 from good hope spell, 3 from skill focus, 2 from magical aptitude), and use a CL 20 shapechange scroll (max CL for scribed scroll, right?) to turn into a titan for:

titan = 43
belt of giant strength +6 = 49
Death Knell +2 = 51
Righteous Might +4 = 55
Rage +2 = 57
Mighty Rage +8 = 65
Sword of Kas +4 = 69

Did I miss anything?

[Xervous]

Going this kind of route, as a 20th level barbarian, if you can muster up at least 19 charisma via a cloak of charisma, and manage a UMD check of DC 40 (11 ranks, 12 from max-ish charisma, 3 from circlet of persuasion, 1 from luckstone, 1 from pale green prism ioun stone, 2 from decipher script synergy, 2 from spellcraft synergy, 2 from good hope spell, 3 from skill focus, 2 from magical aptitude), and use a CL 20 shapechange scroll (max CL for scribed scroll, right?) to turn into a titan for:

titan = 43
belt of giant strength +6 = 49
Death Knell +2 = 51
Righteous Might +4 = 55
Rage +2 = 57
Mighty Rage +8 = 65
Sword of Kas +4 = 69

Did I miss anything?

+5 Inherent from tomes is the first omission that comes to mind.

[Flickerdart]

(max CL for scribed scroll, right?)

Sadly no. "Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm)"

[Eladrinblade]

+5 Inherent from tomes is the first omission that comes to mind.

That would carry over to into a changed form?


Sadly no. "Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm)"

Even if you scribe it yourself?

[Flickerdart]

Even if you scribe it yourself?
That bit of text is the only rule I can find that indicates what the CL of a scroll is. Nothing says the creator can choose to set it. Of course, it's possible I haven't looked hard enough.

[Mongobear]

That bit of text is the only rule I can find that indicates what the CL of a scroll is. Nothing says the creator can choose to set it. Of course, it's possible I haven't looked hard enough.

It is possible to get Magic Items at a higher Caster Level than the minimum, they just cost more. Its in the DMG in the back by the section on all the different cost multipliers. I only know this because I have played with a guy that always tried to make an item crafter and he cheeses the rules on it a lot. (He has tried to make a +1 Sword of Permanent True Strike, using the "continual spell effect" formula instead of the "total bonus" formula to save himself a few million GP)

[Xervous]

That would carry over to into a changed form?

Being an inherent bonus it is not tied to your race nor the unique aspects of your characters form. I haven't seen anything supporting the belief that inherent bonuses are nullified by polymorph or similar.

[Flickerdart]

It is possible to get Magic Items at a higher Caster Level than the minimum, they just cost more. Its in the DMG in the back by the section on all the different cost multipliers. I only know this because I have played with a guy that always tried to make an item crafter and he cheeses the rules on it a lot. (He has tried to make a +1 Sword of Permanent True Strike, using the "continual spell effect" formula instead of the "total bonus" formula to save himself a few million GP)

All magic items, or just custom ones?

[ExLibrisMortis]

It is possible to get Magic Items at a higher Caster Level than the minimum, they just cost more. Its in the DMG in the back by the section on all the different cost multipliers. I only know this because I have played with a guy that always tried to make an item crafter and he cheeses the rules on it a lot. (He has tried to make a +1 Sword of Permanent True Strike, using the "continual spell effect" formula instead of the "total bonus" formula to save himself a few million GP)
Note that regardless of the duration, true strike only grants a +20 bonus on the next single attack roll before the end of the round you make. If you want to be mean, make a sword of permanent true strike that works really, really well, once, the second you take it out of the workshop.

[JyP]

+ afflicted lycanthrope template , with were-rhinoceros (+16 Str)

Or Storm Giant Str 39 + were tyrannosaurus +18 Str = 57.

[Forrestfire]

+5 Inherent from tomes is the first omission that comes to mind.

The +5 inherent from the tomes doesn't apply after you've shapechanged into a titan.

[Elkad]

Sadly no. "Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm)"



Even if you scribe it yourself?

He left the end of that sentence out. You can scribe at any higher level you want. Of course it raises the cost.

It's actually "Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm)[/B]."

[zergling.exe]

He left the end of that sentence out. You can scribe at any higher level you want. Of course it raises the cost.

It's actually "Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm)[/B]."

And this line from the Scroll Base Prices table:

Prices assume that the scroll was made at the minimum caster level.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The +5 inherent from the tomes doesn't apply after you've shapechanged into a titan.It's a bonus, and that doesn't stop being true just because you've changed your body into something else.

[Xervous]

The +5 inherent from the tomes doesn't apply after you've shapechanged into a titan.

I'm still browsing old threads and there's no decisive answer or rules text quotes... this one is probably going to be up in the air.

[Eladrinblade]

+ afflicted lycanthrope template , with were-rhinoceros (+16 Str)

Or Storm Giant Str 39 + were tyrannosaurus +18 Str = 57.

If I were using templates, that would be difficult to beat. If the only stipulation for a lycanthrope is that it has to be an animal that can bite, then we can up the game a bit further with cachalot whales at +24 str, which would even make some sense on a storm giant, as they are aquatic as well.

But I wanted to stick to the core races (meaning no templates, unless they come from a class like dragon disciple).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can stack multiple lycanthrope templates onto each other. Werewolf onto werebear onto werelion? Sure. So just keep stacking them templates.

[Troacctid]

To boost the level of forms you have available. Epic isn't supported in Core, and without CL boosters you can't get past level 20.

Aren't there epic rules in the DMG? That's core.

[Eldariel]

Okay, I just read through shapechange, and the tarrasque is not prohibited due to HD, but to uniqueness. If you can boost your CL to 24 you would be able to become one, but it's the only of it's kind.

Titans, however, have 43 strength at HD 20.

Got it: Great Wyrm Gold Dragon at 47 strength at 41 HD. You just need an orange prism ioun stone.

That's pre-errata Shapechange. Shapechange was errata'd from twice the HD to just the HD with a cap of 25 so a Titan is indeed your best bet.


The +5 inherent from the tomes doesn't apply after you've shapechanged into a titan.

RAW can go either way; Polymorphing doesn't say anything about inherent bonuses. However, even if you can't, you could just cast Wish 5 times (from a scroll or by abusing Shapechange with e.g. Pit Fiend form) in conjunction to acquire the +5 through the proper means (the Tomes are originally just itemized Wishes anyways) after Shapechange when it should unarguably apply. In a Titan form, this would give you 43 + 5 Inherent + 6 Enhancement + 2 Morale + 2 Death Knell + 4 Righteous Might + 8 Mighty Rage = 70.

[Tvtyrant]

A somewhat playable way to make a super strength core is half-dragon werebear Troll barbarian. Gets 54 strength before raging and items, with a ring of elemental immunity can be immune to damage.

[Troacctid]

I don't believe half-dragons can contract lycanthrope.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't believe half-dragons can contract lycanthrope.But if you apply lycanthrope first...or you take Human Heritage.

[Tvtyrant]

There is also the Dragon Disciple route.