If we're heading into the dwarven lands, will we see Hilgya again?

[Markozeta]

While there was general shock when Zz'dtri was revealed to still be around, it's obvious that Hilgya Firehelm from 0084 was not killed.

My guess is we'll see her in the Dwarven lands - and as Durkon's first, will play some kind of pivotal role in this book. Thoughts?

[EmperorSarda]

Why would she return home?

[Markozeta]

Why would she return home?

My guess is because Durkon told her to - but I don't think she returned home. For what reason she happens to be in the Dwarven lands at the time of this event is up to a guess. It's been what, 2 years since the dungeon? - Anything could have happened to her. Since this entire book is Durkon themed, it seems dramatically inappropriate for her not to be involved in some way. But you know, I could be wrong. The commentary in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools suggest that the use of her was a big step for Rich - so I don't think he planned her to run away and leave the story unresolved forever.

Still, it could be just a dream to see her back and nothing comes of it. That's why I'm guessing.

[Quartz]

Hilgya's a cleric of Loki, isn't she? I wonder if that could turn out to be important?

[Havelocke]

I think it would be fun for Roy to get ported over to the dwarven lands with the vampires, meet up with Durkon's mom and Hilgya, that would make for a fun conversation!

[137beth]

Oh good, I was wondering how long we could go without this topic coming up again. Now we know:smallsigh:

Anyhow, the one thing we knew about Hilgya is that she doesn't like the dwarven lands. I don't think she'll have gone back.

[factotum]

My guess is because Durkon told her to

Why on earth would she do what he asked her to do? He pretty much broke her heart when all's said and done, and I seriously doubt his actions would make her better disposed toward the rigid dwarven society she ran away from in the first place.

[King of Nowhere]

Oh good, I was wondering how long we could go without this topic coming up again. Now we know:smallsigh:

Anyhow, the one thing we knew about Hilgya is that she doesn't like the dwarven lands. I don't think she'll have gone back.

yeah, it would have actuallly been more likely to meet her in the western continent or in azure city.

As for what is dramatically approprate, I think that specific plot line got resolved 950 strips ago. it would be inappropriate to dig it up again.

[Murk]

I doubt we'll see her again this arc.

If we do, however, I don't think it will be in the dwarven lands, because as others have said, she has nothing to do there. If, for some reason, it is pivotal for her to be seen again, I think it'd be because the vampire goes looking for her.
Probably for some nefarious scheme involving manipulating Durkons thoughts, or something alike.

[Markozeta]

That's an interesting idea. There's no reason to think Ivan left the Dwarven lands. What happens if Durkon meets him? What if he's a leader of one of the clans?

[DominusMegadeus]

As much as Hilgya's return would fit into a Durkon-themed arc such as this, she's not gonna bring anything interesting and I don't expect her. Her God already voted, and she wouldn't be able to influence that anyway. Durkon is Lawful to a fault which is why he refused to have anything to do with her, but this experience isn't going to change that about him.

It would either be some fridge-stuffing from the Vampire, or an awkward reunion followed by splitting up ASAP.

I have faith that the Giant can write an awesome story about almost anything, but he also knows when a story wouldn't be all that great too.

[DaOldeWolf]

I vaguely remember a marriage between clans as part of her backstory. Maybe, her husband is such a clan leader or at the very least will be chosen to represent his clan in the upcoming dwarf clan reunion. Maybe Hilgya will appear too representing her clan?

[Vinyadan]

Maybe she went back and is still trying to poison her husband. You know, so that Durkon has no more reasons to refuse her :P

[Uigeadaily]

I'm not sure, but I'd like to think so, since it seems like a reasonable expectation for a story centred around Durkon. She was an important part of Durkon's early characterisation and a romance to boot.
I like what some people have said above about her husband Ivan and the possibility that Rich has expanded on what little was said of him.


Anyhow, the one thing we knew about Hilgya is that she doesn't like the dwarven lands.

I read it was more to do with hating her clan for making her unhappy with the arranged marriage.

Although there is one reason we can expect her to be back in Dwarvern lands in spite of her rejection of her people's customs. Hilga is an adventuring cleric who goes off on missions for Loki. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html)
Granted, this could just be on behalf of the higher clergy rather than her god’s direct command, but that still makes her a mid level+ servant.

Let us suppose that Loki, a fire god famed for trickery and deceit, would be underhanded enough to send a lesser clerical agent to the Clan elder's meeting (No rule says he can’t). If not to influence the vote in his favour (just in case those silly mortals wake up on the wrong side of the bed), but at the very least to counter whatever his daughter Hel has cooked up. The need for the Demi-god tiebreaker and their surprisingly high turnout tipped him off (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html) that Hel had been prepared for the Godsmoot. Loki has enough reason to suspect she might have another trick up her sleeve, given her parting outburst of overconfidence (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html).

Not to mention all of Hel's defiant, villainous gloating her father's face in front of all the Northern Pantheon seems like nothing short of a challenge to his godly rep. Heck, if he were to meddle with the Clansmoot, I doubt it would even be for the sake of saving the world but only to spitefully deny the upstart Hel her victory. Like father like daughter: Petty, scheming and out to win. :smallcool:

As for Hilga, if she were involved, I suspect she could serve as a chaotic, fiery spanner in the works for both Durkon and HPoH. Maybe she continued to roam the world and won't show up ever again. Maybe she took Durkon's harsh words to heart and returned to dwarven lands. Maybe she came to realise Ivan’s innocent affection, or he her misery? Maybe she defied her clan instead with a divorce? Maybe there's an adorably unshaven Durkon Jnr waiting with her?

[factotum]

Maybe she went back and is still trying to poison her husband. You know, so that Durkon has no more reasons to refuse her :P

You say it as a joke, but that's actually the most reasonable thing I've heard so far in this thread--if you want Hilgya to be in dwarven lands, her attempting to assassinate her husband to remove any difficulties with getting together with Durkon would be a believable way to bring it about. It's debatable if there's any purpose in bringing her back into the plot at this stage, though.

[Ruck]

I don't see what she would add to the narrative. The only reason I can think of for her to return is "she's a dwarf we met early in the story, and she isn't dead."

I'm sure if the Giant has a role for her, it'll make sense, but I always figured she was part of the Early Installment Weirdness and wouldn't add much to the story going forward. (edit: Or more accurately, what she did add to the story was to reveal more of Durkon's character and priorities, and she didn't seem to have a purpose or be developed beyond that.)

[FollowerofBanjo]

I really hope we see her again she is one of my favorite characters in the whole comic and if i never see her ever again i will be very disappointed maybe she could come back after her husband died then hook up with Durkon but has go to on a quest for Loki or something and just show up in passing like Roys girlfriend does?

[BaronOfHell]

Hilgya goes where Loki orders her to go. Loki's main area of interest is in the dwarven lands. If we meet her again, I won't say it's shocking.

[Markozeta]

Especially since loki, who I never expected as the voice for the opposition, directs her.

Though the thought of meeting a baby Durkon junior would be wonderful. How I see it now is loki does some research about this new high priest of his daughter (who he schemed to keep out of the conventions). He finds hilgya and sends her off to the Dwarven lands to stop the end of the world. She'd buy it, even though she's divorced with a baby. The end of the world is the kind of thing a mother stops.

[Bulldog Psion]

Perhaps she could be worked in interestingly, maybe if she had her and Durkon's kid with her, and forced Durkon to confront his excessive lawfulness as part of his whole "character growth" thing.

Of course, the story could plow ahead just fine without her, too, and needn't revisit all the "greatest hits of yesteryear," either.

It seems like the story would work fine with or without her reappearance, IMO.

[Dr.Zero]

It's debatable if there's any purpose in bringing her back into the plot at this stage, though.

Indeed there is no real reason for her, in particular, to play a role in the following pages.
She could have gone adventuring with another human/mixed race party, and it would be perfectly coherent with her character.

But often a "lucky coincidence" which brings back and to good use a minor character introduced years ago can be quite awesome.

It's all about conservation of detail (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfConservationOfDetail) and Chekhov' s gun(woman) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGunman) mostly.

Yeah, tvtropes really ruined my life. ;)

[Mad Humanist]

Indeed there is no real reason for her, in particular, to play a role in the following pages.
She could have gone adventuring with another human/mixed race party, and it would be perfectly coherent with her character.

But often a "lucky coincidence" which brings back and to good use a minor character introduced years ago can be quite awesome.

It's all about conservation of detail (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfConservationOfDetail) and Chekhov' s gun(woman) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGunman) mostly.

Yeah, tvtropes really ruined my life. ;)

I just thought of a plausible way Hilga could come into the plot. Now that Loki's proxy is dismissed he can look through his hand of clerics and see what he can play. "Ooh, now that's an interesting card I can play." I am taking it that talking to one of your clerics does not count as breaking any rules against direct intervention. Also think crimsom mantel and certain prestige classes.

[Markozeta]

Loki isn't the biggest defender of humanoid life. If Odin was the leader of the nae vote, I wouldn't suspect hilgya's return at all.

[Mad Humanist]

Loki isn't the biggest defender of humanoid life. If Odin was the leader of the nae vote, I wouldn't suspect hilgya's return at all.

Not quite sure about this comment. We've already seen Loki wants this defeated. Loki is usually the clever one, and Hligya is a cleric of Loki.

[The Pilgrim]

No, we won't see her again.

[Mad Humanist]

No, we won't see her again.


I do appreciate it when someone gives us their reasoning for their binary yes/no answer. Howeevr haven't you given us too much detail here? Please try to cut it down to something short enough to read.

[Draconi Redfir]

i could see her going back to dwarven lands out of desperation, a sort of "nowhere else to go" type situation. Maybe she tried to live in the northern human lands for awhile, but much like Durkan she found Human culture to be too alien for her, they don't even have a good beer!

then the southern lands are taken over by goblinoids, the western continent is far too violent and even more alien. So... yeah, if the Dwarven homeland is the only place she knew how to live, i could see her going back.

if she does though i'd imagine she'd probably sucseeded in killing her husband, probably inheriting his titles and properties by virtue of being his wife (and making it look like an accident). So she herself could potentually be a deciding council for the Dwarven Demigod, possibly being the head of not just one but two different clans and having twice the say in the vote.

Honestly i'd be surprised if she didn't turn up again in some form. Like has been said, it's been two years since the first pages of the comic. A lot could have happened offscreen for her.

[KorvinStarmast]

I do appreciate it when someone gives us their reasoning for their binary yes/no answer. Howeevr haven't you given us too much detail here? Please try to cut it down to something short enough to read. Hee Hee. Nicely played.

regarding some of the other ideas

Maybe there's an adorably unshaven Durkon Jnr waiting with her? That would be way cool.


Perhaps she could be worked in interestingly, maybe if she had her and Durkon's kid with her, and forced Durkon to confront his excessive lawfulness as part of his whole "character growth" thing. Your dad abandoned you. Your dad sucks.
*Durkon Returns*
Whoa, he literally sucks blood from living beings. :smalleek: Your dad really sucks!!
(Cue the little dwarf commencing with a teenaged Anakin Skywalker pouty routine ...)

As to Loki being clever, I am waiting, my feet tapping, evidence of this Loki laying a little clever down. He seems to have shorted himself here ...

[lenon3579]

Yeah... but you are forgetting something.

Durkon is dead.

There is no Durkon anymore... and I fail to see what kind of card she can be to play with Durkula. Seriously, do you think a vampire high-priest that is directing a world's destruction would stop to regard a female enemy's cleric who even the soul of which he fed had thrown off???

[Dr.Zero]

Yeah... but you are forgetting something.

Durkon is dead.

There is no Durkon anymore... and I fail to see what kind of card she can be to play with Durkula. Seriously, do you think a vampire high-priest that is directing a world's destruction would stop to regard a female enemy's cleric who even the soul of which he fed had thrown off???

But the opposite could happen!
If the need for another vote arises, and she is really the head of a clan, Durkula could think he can seduce her in changing her vote. The same if she is there to fight in behalf of Loki.

Durkula strikes me as a guy with an ego inflated enough to try it.

[Mad Humanist]

There is no Durkon anymore... and I fail to see what kind of card she can be to play with Durkula. Seriously, do you think a vampire high-priest that is directing a world's destruction would stop to regard a female enemy's cleric who even the soul of which he fed had thrown off???
You are assuming Hligya's mission would be to seduce Durkula. Loki ought to know that won't work. I am more thinking Hilgya might be persuaded to destroy Durkula.


But the opposite could happen!
If the need for another vote arises, and she is really the head of a clan, Durkula could think he can seduce her in changing her vote. The same if she is there to fight in behalf of Loki.

Durkula strikes me as a guy with an ego inflated enough to try it.
That I could imagine. And Durkula may not understand emotions enough to understand that it won't work.

[Keltest]

You are assuming Hligya's mission would be to seduce Durkula. Loki ought to know that won't work. I am more thinking Hilgya might be persuaded to destroy Durkula.


That I could imagine. And Durkula may not understand emotions enough to understand that it won't work.

I see no particular reason why Hilgya would be the one to destroy the vampire rather than, say, Roy.

[Mad Humanist]

I see no particular reason why Hilgya would be the one to destroy the vampire rather than, say, Roy.

That's totally true. The peril of speculating on OOTS is that even if you get it half-right, the Giant stikll manages to surprise one. So I'd rather throw out plot elements than complete theories. So I am only looking for ways Hilgya might come back into the plot.

[Dr.Zero]

That's totally true. The peril of speculating on OOTS is that even if you get it half-right, the Giant stikll manages to surprise one. So I'd rather throw out plot elements than complete theories. So I am only looking for ways Hilgya might come back into the plot.

Oh, speaking for myself, I don't even remember if I ever guessed a plot twist correctly.

So probably my speculations are exactly what is not going to happen. ;)

[Mandor]

<snip>I don't see what she would add to the narrative. The only reason I can think of for her to return is "she's a dwarf we met early in the story, and she isn't dead."
<snip>

Well, maybe Durkon has a child he doesn't know about. And maybe the dwarven pull of loyalty to family, especially for Durkon who never knew his father, could have a profound impact on his ability to resist and maybe overcome the HPoH. Do I consider it likely? No. Do I consider it beyond the realm of the possible, No.

[EDIT: oops, idea was already brought up at least twice. Maybe not for a circumstance bonus for breaking free of the vampire, but others did mention the possibility of a Durkon Jr.]

[Kish]

Well, maybe Durkon has a child he doesn't know about. And maybe the dwarven pull of loyalty to family, especially for Durkon who never knew his father, could have a profound impact on his ability to resist and maybe overcome the HPoH. Do I consider it likely? No. Do I consider it beyond the realm of the possible, No.

[EDIT: oops, idea was already brought up at least twice. Maybe not for a circumstance bonus for breaking free of the vampire, but others did mention the possibility of a Durkon Jr.]
Starting five seconds after they had sex, yes.

Twice? More like two million times. At this point, it would legitimately qualify as a subversion if Rich just plain treated it as something no one in the story ever thought of as a possibility.

[Mad Humanist]

Well, maybe Durkon has a child he doesn't know about. And maybe the dwarven pull of loyalty to family, especially for Durkon who never knew his father, could have a profound impact on his ability to resist and maybe overcome the HPoH. Do I consider it likely? No. Do I consider it beyond the realm of the possible, No.


Okay this would make sense and it has been foreshadowed through the flashbacks. However there is no reason to suppose Hilgya or Durkula will be influenced by it - only Durkon. Durkula might try to take advantage of the situation. So in summary there are plot elements the Giant could easily use and of which (most of ) the forum would say "yes that made sense all along." but who knows.

Also these currently seem far more tangential than Loki saying to one of his female Drawrven clerics "I have a job for you."