Unchained Monk builds?

[Reprimand]

So I was looking at the Pathfinder Unchained Monk I'm fairly new to PF and used to the 3.5 monk.

What the the be all/end all Unchained Monk feats traits etc not including 3rd party stuff like Pisonics or Path of War etc.

Lets assume Human race as well.

What would the average point buy look like for an unchained monk? I would think Wis>Dex>Str>Con>Int>Cha

I was thinking Normal Unarmed Monk, Qinggong or Tetori but I can't find the information on how the archetypes have changed for unchained Monk.

[Vhaidara]

UnMonk can't use any old monk archetypes. However, Qinggong is built into the Unchained Monk's Ki Powers

[CharonsHelper]

Actually - if you're going Unchained monk - they should be STR based. One big advantage they have over the regular monk with archetypes is that they get 1.5x STR damage with weapons and are proficient with all monk weapons. If you're going with a DEX build you're probably better off with regular monk with archetypes. And, as Keledrath said, you can't combine the Unchained monk with any archetypes such as Tetori. If you want to go Tetori you need to go regular monk.

For a Umonk - STR>WIS>DEX>CON>INT>CHA

For a 20pt buy try Unchained monk -

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 7

Then use a weapon two-handed for +5/+5 (either seven-branched sword for 1d10 or a nine-section whip to have the option of using your off-hand plus abilities and 1d8) with +6 STR damage. With Mage Armor (get a buddy wizard/sorc/witch etc. to cast it with a pearl of power that you buy them ASAP) you'll have an AC 18 without any other gear - which isn't as amazing as a DEX monk's AC, but it's respectable.

Edit: typo

[Geddy2112]

2nd everything charonshelper said
Since Umonk is a full BAB class, power attack is a must have. Intimidate is a class skill, so even with a low charisma score you could look into cornugon smash if you put ranks into intimidate each level. Depending on your weapon, an improved and greater combat maneuver is worth looking into(temple sword trips, seven branched sword disarms) and any supporting feats like vicious stomp.

[Psyren]

Another good weapon for a Str-based uMonk is the Blade of the Sword Saint (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/blade-of-the-sword-saint), a +3 ki intensifying katana. It's a monk weapon, which means not only can you flurry with it, but uMonks are automatically proficient since they're proficient with all monk weapons; it also has an 18-20 crit range. If your GM doesn't let you improve it with keen, you can simply take Improved Critical instead (which you get as a bonus feat.)

For a dex-based uMonk, I recommend the Monk of the Mantis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-mantis-monk-archetype) archetype - sneak attack helps their damage output a lot and synergizes well with an acrobatic/sneaky monk. You give up 3 of your ki powers with this archetype, but notably you keep the 8th level power, allowing you to get Abundant Step at the first opportunity - this lets you qualify for the Dimensional Savant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-savant) feat chain, which allows you to telepounce and flank enemies all by yourself. The combo potential with sneak attack should be readily apparent; for instance, every round you can start a flurry with a flying kick to your target, swift-action teleport behind them and complete your flurry, getting sneak attack damage on every hit while there, then repeating on the next target.

You can also go for a Wis-based uMonk. For this, you'll want channel energy - A cleric dip is the quickest way, but VMC Cleric and Adept Channel can get you there as well. Once you have it, you can qualify for Guided Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/-guided-hand) and Crusader's Flurry. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/crusader-s-flurry) The former gives you Wis to attack, helping you become more SAD, while the latter lets you flurry with your deity's favored weapon, opening up your weapon choices (e.g. letting you flurry with a whip or scimitar.) As an added bonus, you can grab Ki Channel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ki-channel) to put your channel energy to better use than doing small amounts of healing or damage.

[CharonsHelper]

You can also go for a Wis-based uMonk. For this, you'll want channel energy - A cleric dip is the quickest way, but VMC Cleric and Adept Channel can get you there as well. Once you have it, you can qualify for Guided Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/-guided-hand) and Crusader's Flurry. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/crusader-s-flurry) The former gives you Wis to attack, helping you become more SAD, while the latter lets you flurry with your deity's favored weapon, opening up your weapon choices (e.g. letting you flurry with a whip or scimitar.) As an added bonus, you can grab Ki Channel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ki-channel) to put your channel energy to better use than doing small amounts of healing or damage.

I would NOT recommend that. Unlike 3.5 - in Pathfinder it's rarely worth multi-classing. You lose far too much in BAB/ki powers etc. for what you gain by dipping cleric.


Another good weapon for a Str-based uMonk is the Blade of the Sword Saint, a +3 ki intensifying katana.

If you're okay with having a 75k weapon with 50k worth of already picked enchantments, all for an extra point of crit threat. It's only viable at the highest levels anyway.

[Psyren]

I would NOT recommend that. Unlike 3.5 - in Pathfinder it's rarely worth multi-classing. You lose far too much in BAB/ki powers etc. for what you gain by dipping cleric.

You're exaggerating, a single level is not going to kill you. The difference between 19 BAB and 20 is unnoticeable, and the ki power you'd lose is the one from the capstone, when the game is over anyway.


If you're okay with having a 75k weapon with 50k worth of already picked enchantments, all for an extra point of crit threat. It's only viable at the highest levels anyway.

Um, that extra point becomes 3 with keen/improved crit (18-20 becomes 15-20, i.e. 30% crit chance.) Crit-fishing is even better on an unchained monk thanks to Ki Leech, on which you can maintain 100% uptime.

[Triskavanski]

I'm also of mind of the Dimensional Dervish build. A Monk with Decent Wisdom and a ring of ki focus could DD a lot! Then if you could also get an item that works for the feat that gives you DD a few more times a day. And if you're really hooked on DD, I believe 3 levels of Horizon walker would give you another 3+wis mod.

With like 16 wis (why so low?) by level 12 you'd have a total of 7 ki, 1 use from the feat, and 6 more uses from HW for a total of up to 14 uses per day. Of course you would need some retraining ability to really be able to use it well at this point still.

[Florian]

(Un)Monk has quite a lot of possible builds available, even more with VMC and along that some veeeeery strange 50-50 build options.

DEX-Based builds could use Qingong Power to gain Blood Crow Strike as a Ki Power, giving them a rather nice ranged option.
STR-Based builds have an easy time with the aforementioned Sword Saint Katana, especially since Medusa´s Wrath can be triggered.

Unlike Psyren, I would shy away from dipping with the (Un)Monk, especially if I had to play one up from level one. Delaying the second Flurry at 11th and the Style Strikes seems to costly to me.
If MCing, I´d pick up some levels of Kineticist (Elemental Ascetic Archetype), since they stack and Kinetic Fist is a nice damage boost, being more reliable than Sneak Attack in this way.

[CharonsHelper]

Um, that extra point becomes 3 with keen/improved crit (18-20 becomes 15-20, i.e. 30% crit chance.) Crit-fishing is even better on an unchained monk thanks to Ki Leech, on which you can maintain 100% uptime.

No - it becomes 2 when you compare a base 19-20 with 18-20. (becomes 17-20 vs 15-20) Also - monks - even Unchained monks have accuracy issues relative to other full BAB classes - so getting 2 less enchantment bonus hurts. (All other full BAB have additional sources of accuracy.)

Really though - how many games do you play that get into the upper levels anyway? I rarely get past 10-12. (that's when balance starts to break down in 3.5/Pathfinder anyway) So - weapons that cost 75k are pretty much moot.

[CharonsHelper]

For a dex-based uMonk, I recommend the Monk of the Mantis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-mantis-monk-archetype) archetype - sneak attack helps their damage output a lot and synergizes well with an acrobatic/sneaky monk.

You cannot combine the Unchained monk with archetypes.


You can also go for a Wis-based uMonk. For this, you'll want channel energy - A cleric dip is the quickest way, but VMC Cleric and Adept Channel can get you there as well. Once you have it, you can qualify for Guided Hand and Crusader's Flurry. The former gives you Wis to attack, helping you become more SAD,

Even if you burn a level & feats to get that - you'll get accuracy from Wis, but not damage. So - your accuracy will be a point behind due to losing BAB (and getting flurry attacks slower) but your damage is still tied to STR, so your damage will be low.

One of the big boosts to the Umonk was the 1.5x STR damage.

[Vhaidara]

You cannot combine the Unchained monk with archetypes.

Mantis was released after Unchained, and specifically CAN be used with unchained. Notice the last line of the second two abilities explaining how they work for unchained.

And UnMonk does have an extra source of accuracy: An extra couple of attack rolls at full bonus. I recall the math on a reroll being about +4.5. So when looking at an UnMonk, consider that they'll be getting 3-4 attacks at full BAB. That's as many as the Two handed fighter is getting TOTAL.

[CharonsHelper]

Mantis was released after Unchained, and specifically CAN be used with unchained. Notice the last line of the second two abilities explaining how they work for unchained.

Fair enough - I guess I haven't kept up with the latest books.


And UnMonk does have an extra source of accuracy: An extra couple of attack rolls at full bonus. I recall the math on a reroll being about +4.5. So when looking at an UnMonk, consider that they'll be getting 3-4 attacks at full BAB. That's as many as the Two handed fighter is getting TOTAL.

That's not accuracy. Attacks are entirely different. Arguably they're the equivalent of extra accuracy in terms of DPR - but from a math perspective it's entirely different.

Attack bonus in general has diminishing returns - and without ACTUAL attack bonus as part of the class, they gain more out of attack bonus from other sources. (enhancement bonus/avoiding PA etc.)

[Psyren]

You cannot combine the Unchained monk with archetypes.

Try clicking the link next time :smalltongue:


Even if you burn a level & feats to get that - you'll get accuracy from Wis, but not damage. So - your accuracy will be a point behind due to losing BAB (and getting flurry attacks slower) but your damage is still tied to STR, so your damage will be low.

One of the big boosts to the Umonk was the 1.5x STR damage.

The point of going Wis-based is for extra ki, which you can use to get plenty of bonus damage via things like Cold Ice Strike. There's also the elemental styles like Shaitan Style that can get you Wis to damage if you want that.

But even without Guided Hand, a cleric dip is still worthwhile for Crusader's Flurry, letting you flurry with a Scimitar and take Dervish Dance for Dex to damage and 15-20 crit.

[Icarion]

The point of going Wis-based is for extra ki, which you can use to get plenty of bonus damage via things like Cold Ice Strike. There's also the elemental styles like Shaitan Style that can get you Wis to damage if you want that.


Doesn't Shaitan Style needs elemental fist (monk of the four winds)?.
is that archetype compatible?

[Psyren]

Doesn't Shaitan Style needs elemental fist (monk of the four winds)?.
is that archetype compatible?

I think you're under the necromancy window...

You don't need Monk of the Four Winds, Elemental Fist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/elemental-fist-combat) is a feat. Mot4W gets it for free, but any monk can take it.

[Sayt]

If you're planning a Monk of the Mantis Dimensional Dervish Build and you're coming to PF with a 3.5 group, see if your GM will let you pick up Sun School for Flash to Sunset for.... an extra full attack, providing you have enough teleportation distance.

Secondly, Unchained Monks get to keep one of Normal Monk's better tricks: Medusa's Wrath without prerequisites. This is double good with any sort of Ki Intensifying weapon, and picking up Mantis Style, Ability focus (Stunning Fist) and Ki straps from 3.5's MIC and if I remember my math correctly, your average Pit Fiend only passes his save against stun on an 18 against a comparable Level Monk, though this does require a lot of feat investment, to be fair, but on a Flurrying uMonk this gives you 7 attacks at full bab if they fail their stunning fist save, you spend a ki to get an extra attack, and have haste up. Conditional, but that is a lot of attacks, especially if you're getting sneak attack.Whoops, forgot MoTM gives up your 10th level bonus feat so no Medusa's Wrath....unless you retrain your first level bonus feat, which some GMs may be uncomfortable with.