Tomb of Horrors (3.5)

[JMalone]

I'm a moderately okay DM who's about to put a group through the Tomb of Horrors as a one shot game. Any advice for doing so? Things I should be aware of, stuff like that? I have the necessary books and PDF files to run it, but is there anything I should be wary of?

[Arbitrarity]

Well, they're probably all going to die, so beware. You may be beaten with a stick.

[SoulCatcher78]

There's two ways you can run TOH. The first is as a nice guy...you give the PCs a hint here and there so that things don't end prematurely and cause a night of Monopoly. The second is as a by the book DM which will probably leave you with half or less of the PCs making it to the end at which point they get finished off. The adventure is designed as a meat grinder to get rid of hi power PCs, giving them one spectacular final appearance rather than retiring them. Since you're doing this as a one shot rather than as part of a campaign, I say play it by the book (none of that "the darkened area smells faintly of ozone" or any of that crap) and watch your players find the meaning of Horror.

Besides, if you let them keep their PCs after completing the module, you run the risk of placing some story destroying items on your world.

Funniest moment ever from ToH was the PCs drawing straws and then having the cleric reach into the darkness only to find out it was a sphere of annihilation...zap/scream/squirt-squirt-squirt :smallbiggrin:

[JMalone]

I figured that one, what with the "Sphere of Annihilation" tunnel, the "I ated your equipment lol" teleporters, and the spear-doors.

I did warn them that this was a thinking-man's dungeon, though.

Personally, I believe they're all going to die at one of the fake entrances. This is the sort of group that we're lucky if someone is playing a cleric, let alone a rogue.

[SoulCatcher78]

They never went anywhere without either a 10' pole or a spare quarterstaff again though, lol.

[JMalone]

They never went anywhere without either a 10' pole or a spare quarterstaff again though, lol.

The tunnel is going to be fun. "So, the fighter slowly enters the tunnel. As soon as you step in more than a foot, the rest of the party is treated to your body's image going negative, then winking out altogether, leaving behind only the smell of ozone."

[SpiderBrigade]

I did warn them that this was a thinking-man's dungeon, though.The thing about ToH though (like a lot of those early dungeons) is that it really isn't designed for the thinking man. It's just designed to kill. This isn't some Batman villain's trap, where he's left you meticulous cryptic clues which can be used to evade the deadly snares. Nor is it a series of tests like in Indian Jones, where someone who is prepared can succeed. Pretty much everything is set up to kill you, and the approaches which are "safe" aren't really revealed by any sort of pattern or clue.

Now, a character who thinks ahead can have more success. He'll take lots of scrying and identification magic, and start with the basic assumption that everything is dangerous. But it's really not a situation where logic and reason are particularly rewarded, per se. They just die a little slower :smallbiggrin:

[JMalone]

The thing about ToH though (like a lot of those early dungeons) is that it really isn't designed for the thinking man. It's just designed to kill. This isn't some Batman villain's trap, where he's left you meticulous cryptic clues which can be used to evade the deadly snares. Nor is it a series of tests like in Indian Jones, where someone who is prepared can succeed. Pretty much everything is set up to kill you, and the approaches which are "safe" aren't really revealed by any sort of pattern or clue.

Now, a character who thinks ahead can have more success. He'll take lots of scrying and identification magic, and start with the basic assumption that everything is dangerous. But it's really not a situation where logic and reason are particularly rewarded, per se. They just die a little slower :smallbiggrin:

Well, there are the cryptic clues that are placed in some areas of the dungeon (at least in the 3.5 remake; I dunno about the original version). They could theoretically keep a party alive to make it to the false ending (the one with the fake lich and the illusion of the dungeon collapsing behind them as they flee). Although I will admit, from my initial readthrough it looks like something I would have wanted back in my other campaign to kill off the local Munchkin's character.

[Gavin Sage]

Funniest moment ever from ToH was the PCs drawing straws and then having the cleric reach into the darkness only to find out it was a sphere of annihilation...zap/scream/squirt-squirt-squirt :smallbiggrin:

I read this and my first thought was:

That'll teach em to cast Magic Missile first!

I know, I know, don't hurt me.

[Lapak]

Well, there are the cryptic clues that are placed in some areas of the dungeon (at least in the 3.5 remake; I dunno about the original version). They could theoretically keep a party alive to make it to the false ending (the one with the fake lich and the illusion of the dungeon collapsing behind them as they flee).
I haven't read the new version, but in the original even the clues were designed to kill you. For example, the throne room with the crown and sceptre where...

there was a hint that would lead one to believe that touching the sceptre to the crown would allow the party to proceed. Doing this, while wearing the crown, caused instant death. It turns out that there was a carved image of a crown hidden on the underside of the throne, and you needed to touch THAT.
So the clues are generally exactly cryptic enough to lead you into killing yourself. Which is, quite appropriately, evil and clever. But not necessarily FUN.

[SpiderBrigade]

I haven't read the new version, but in the original even the clues were designed to kill you. For example, the throne room with the crown and sceptre where...

there was a hint that would lead one to believe that touching the sceptre to the crown would allow the party to proceed. Doing this, while wearing the crown, caused instant death. It turns out that there was a carved image of a crown hidden on the underside of the throne, and you needed to touch THAT.
So the clues are generally exactly cryptic enough to lead you into killing yourself. Which is, quite appropriately, evil and clever. But not necessarily FUN.Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was thinking of.

In general, the Tomb is designed much like how it should be, with the goal of destroying any intruders. And yeah, that's not necessarily fun. It can be, though, in a kind of masochistic way. Or if your players are used to Paranoia.

[Captain van der Decken]

Certainly fun for the DM though.

Right up until you're clubbed to death with the module book.

[Kurald Galain]

Nah. If you want a fun game with a high mortality rate, play Call of Ctulhu and/or Paranoia. Both are, in their own way, games that reward clever thinking.

TOH doesn't - first, it doesn't reward much period given that the treasure in there really isn't worth it, and second, thinking doesn't have much to do with it either considering most of the traps and monsters are arbitrary (and are arbitrarily immune to normal methods of detection/bypassing for arbitrary reasons). Killing people by GM fiat is not by any measure good module design.

[Chris_Chandler]

Tomb of Horrors is pretty fun. I set it up for this past Halloween's game and told everyone to make three characters. Only two players of the six made it though on character #1. Everyone else went through multiple characters, and they just ran out of waking hours to finish it as a one-shot.

There is a way to get through the whole thing by picking up the clues, but they are very narrow. It's designed as a character-killer, with only the most astute (read: paranoid) characters getting through. There are points when players should go, "this is a set up. We need to find something different, not follow these 'clues'".

I love some of the traps though. I mean, that's the module's strength, really. The false endgame is entertaining and the real endgame is very, very tough, but it's watching normally very calm and sensible players becoming OCD, touching every wall, checking for traps all over, looking over shoulders, etc. It's good for a one-shot.

[Swamp0808]

Excellent timed post! I am planning on DMing the Tomb soon, can't wait to see my player's faces when they encounter some of the stuff in there. :smallamused:

Edit: Are you going to use the Libris Mortis content?

[JMalone]

I don't see why not. My players typically don't play uber-good Exalted characters, so they could use some of the items with little problem.

I'm running this game primarily as a one-shot to get my group thinking and searching slightly more than what they're used to (read: kick in door, kill, loot, and then scoot). I've warned them that this dungeon has a lot of traps and secrets, but that's about all I'm going to do for them.

I'm also sort of looking forward to the pit-trap secret door. That ought to be interesting for them to find.

What I meant by "Thinking Man's dungeon" is that they can't just bash their way through, and that rogue doesn't just mean "stealthy sneak attack machine." Sadly, thats pretty much how they do things (and thus miss quite a lot of info or important things by killing everything and only checking for "obvious" secret doors), so I'm hoping this dungeon can break them of that habit.

Of course, this is going to backfire hilariously on me when, during the climactic chase through the sewer after the archvillain in another campaign, the party stops to check for traps and secret doors every six seconds. Whoops.

[Ethdred]

I've only read the original version of this, and that was a loooong time ago, but one thing I always thought was odd was that, in the middle of all these almost unavoidable certain death traps, there are doors that surprise you with a spear. Oh no, 1d6 damage, how will I continue?

That, and the fact that you can ignore the final, climactic encounter and just take the money and run

[Renx]

That, and the fact that you can ignore the final, climactic encounter and just take the money and run

Taking the money and running is a perfectly valid option :P

[Citizen Joe]

How to Beat Tomb of Horrors:
Be Xykon. There are few problems that can't be solved by sacraficing minions.

Bring loads of low level minions. Offer them 1000 gold for each action that you call on them to perform. If they live, they are rich and may go home, or continue for more money. After a little bit, the minions will be starting side bets.

[SoulCatcher78]

Taking the money and running has it's drawbacks when palyed as a campaign module. What if the demi lich gets some feet under him (all those corpses left behind) and decides he wants it back? I can't think of much worse than a ticked off lich with time to prepare...bad deal all around if he can catch them one or two at a time (well that's probably all thats left of the party anyway).

[Ditto]

I've read through ToH and played through a game that died after the first 4 or 5 areas (No one died! Yay! We only spent a Commune on it...). It is not fun. It is not a thinking man's game, as stated above, and is not fit for anything but very high level PCs or someone with scads of minions/PCs drawn up. There's no way to beat it - you get lucky, or you don't. And the payoff sucks so hard! This module makes me very, very sad. If you want it to be fun at all, you *absolutely* must give those cheesy hints if you want it to be at all a thinking man's dungeon.

There are four or five different ways to be instantly annihilated, or shunted to a room where you have to battle big bad things without any equipment. Think your way out of that...?

[Runolfr]

The Tomb of Horrors is not an adventure.

It is a lesson in humility for power gamers.

As long as your players understand that, they should be moderately amused.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Review it. It is a dangerous place. Dying or surviving the adventure should be memorable and change things up just a little bit for players who have seen the pdf or played in one of the earlier editions or heard a few things regarding the dungeon.

It is a somewhat optimized NPC dungeon overflowing with treasures utilizing some of the potential of the core NPC the adventure is based around. It could have been a lot worse remember the purpose it was built for.

It is deliberately designed to kill cake walk PCs who go around dropping heavy duty encounter BBEGs without defenses in a round or two and think that is the norm. It won't kill as many experienced players who get unlucky or make a mistake like the orignal and most players will still need a little luck but it really is designed to let the DM have a little fun killing the PCs for a change.

Make a few notes and have fun with it since it is a one shot dungeon. Pretty cool ending though if they make it that far.

[JMalone]

Well, according to the rules in the PDF, this is meant for 9th level adventurers, and doesn't include all that much in world-destroying magic. I mean, off the top of my head the worse items they have there are a +3 Defending Greatsword, a staff of Fire, and a scroll with Power Word Kill on it. A tad powerful at that level, yes, but chances are good that even if they reached the end and smited the boss that half the party would be dead along the way, at least.

[Neon Knight]

Tomb of Horrors is like a B-Horror movie.

It's main purpose is for the PCs to laugh at the numerous deaths. At least, that's what we use it for.

[Valdyr]

Something to also note is that some players will have heard of various things in the dungeon. I think every player knows that there's a Sphere of Annihilation somewhere in the dungeon. More experienced ones might know that it's disguised as darkness and still others might have the equation "ozone = bad" firmly planted in their head. Have some ideas how to switch up a few of the encounters in case your players have some meta-knowledge about the place.

This is YOUR game. You've sat by and watched the players kill your BBEGs and go as far as possible from the plot you had planned. ToH is a gift from the gods to DMs. You'll likely kill a bunch of the players. Enjoy yourself.

[Falrin]

Also, it's what a Dungeon should look like.

If I were a lich (which I'm not. Yet. ) I wouldn't paint huge clues on my walls, make obvious traps (don't step on the black, skull-like tiles) or other non-lethal crap.

A 20Ft-20ft room with a 20Ft-20Ft pit-trap with a sphere of Annihilation on the bottom. That's What I call a treasure defender. That's what any powerfull lich would do to defend his treasure.

[Arbitrarity]

(PC's use disintigrate/rope/something to move around it.)

Disintigrate: Go in the dungeon? Madness!

Rope: Pit? What's down the... oh.

[Grug]

That brings up the question why the Lich would allow people to his throne room at all? The answer is: If the person is smart enough to reach the final room, they are likely a wizard. The Demilich kills them personally, and then steals thir spellbook to increase his own power.

I plan to run Tomb of Horrors as well, as a standalone thing. The one hint I gave to the players is that Teleportation won't work. I think it's only fair, because if a character is designed with the idea that they can just retreat whenever they want they shouldn't have to be suddenly nerfed. Does the no-teleport thing affect summoning? I can't remember.