Cutting Words - Initiative

[lall]

1111111111

[Tanarii]

How are you using actions outside of initiative?

Not that I have a problem with it balance wise or anything.

Edit: not do I think it's an unintended use. I mean, I'd run it exactly like you say as a DM. I was just posting the first question that popped into my mind. :)

[Sitri]

Everyone rolls initiative simultaneously and then initiative is determined. The roll still already happened. Likewise I wouldn't say you could pump up your teammates initiative just because they hadn't declared their number yet. The outcome has already been calculated, recorded, and have caused new things to happen.

[DanyBallon]

Technically, the Initiative roll happens before you can get any actions, and reaction, but as Tanarii said I'd allow such a use of cutting word as it well within the intent of the ability.

[MaxWilson]

How are you using actions outside of initiative?

Are you saying that Teleport can't be cast unless there's a hostile enemy present?

There's nothing in 5E that says that actions/reactions are exclusive to combat. For example, if your horses suddenly collapses and dies while you're riding along a peaceful country road, you can still use your reaction to dismount using the rules on PHB 198.

[krugaan]

I was curious about this too. The book is unclear when your action slots are "refreshed". Well, pre-combat. Surprised, obviously you can't.

[Sitri]

Ahhh, I forgot we were talking about a reaction. I retract my previous statement. I am not sure now.

[Talyn]

As Krugaan said, if I was running I'd allow it unless you were surprised.

[Tanarii]

Are you saying that Teleport can't be cast unless there's a hostile enemy present?

There's nothing in 5E that says that actions/reactions are exclusive to combat. For example, if your horses suddenly collapses and dies while you're riding along a peaceful country road, you can still use your reaction to dismount using the rules on PHB 198.
No, it's more that actions are for regulating combat. Not that you can't do things that require actions outside of combat.

In other words, it probably shouldn't use up the reaction that the Bard gets prior to his first turn. Since rolling initiative isn't in combat yet. Maybe. Technically. Something like that, :)

However, I agree the best way to do it is to use prior to first turn reaction. And only allow it if not surprised. Good call there kruugan.

[krugaan]

No, it's more that actions are for regulating combat. Not that you can't do things that require actions outside of combat.

In other words, it probably shouldn't use up the reaction that the Bard gets prior to his first turn. Since rolling initiative isn't in combat yet. Maybe. Technically. Something like that, :)

However, I agree the best way to do it is to use prior to first turn reaction. And only allow it if not surprised. Good call there kruugan.

Alright, a more nitpicky question then:

suppose the bard cutting words the mook's initiative, goes first, then spends his turn doing whatever. The mook gets his turn, runs up to the bard who insulted him, then attacks.

Can the bard use cutting words to reduce the mook's attack roll? Or is his reaction already spent on the initiative thing?

When do reactions reset? start of turn or start of round?

*I'm pretty sure this is in the book somewhere, but im AFB.

[JoeJ]

The problem I see is that the situation can be reversed. What happens if the BBEG casts Cutting Words at a PC before Initiative is rolled? Are the players going to consider that fair?

[krugaan]

The problem I see is that the situation can be reversed. What happens if the BBEG casts Cutting Words at a PC before Initiative is rolled? Are the players going to consider that fair?

Welp... at least it's only 1 PC. BBEG still has only 1 reaction, where the party has ... well, however many bards they have.

Unless, the party is somehow attacking Mock'nathurenienalieunablahblah, the Drow Bard College of Sarcasm. Then the party is in for some serious cutting down.

[ryan92084]

Alright, a more nitpicky question then:

suppose the bard cutting words the mook's initiative, goes first, then spends his turn doing whatever. The mook gets his turn, runs up to the bard who insulted him, then attacks.

Can the bard use cutting words to reduce the mook's attack roll? Or is his reaction already spent on the initiative thing?

When do reactions reset? start of turn or start of round?

*I'm pretty sure this is in the book somewhere, but im AFB.

Reactions reset on the beginning of your turn iirc. So in your example the bard would have it again.

[krugaan]

Reactions reset on the beginning of your turn iirc. So in your example the bard would have it again.

Ouch, cut down twice in less than 6 seconds. 3 times, if the bard cast Vicious Mockery too.

[Tanarii]

Ouch, cut down twice in less than 6 seconds. 3 times, if the bard cast Vicious Mockery too.

Yeah, now I see a balance issue against allowing it. :)

[krugaan]

Yeah, now I see a balance issue against allowing it. :)

Require the bard PC to actually think of insults.

Actually, my DM allowed a personal spell (in a long line of humorous spells):

[Krugaan's Restorative Retort]
evocation cantrip, 1 reaction, V, instant
After taking damage from a sentient target (no constructs / mindless undead / traps / etc), the caster makes a witty retort ("you call that a fireball?" "I pounded your wife way harder than that last night!"). On a successful cha save, the target comes up with a suitable retort ("Lol, umad?"). On a failed save, you regain 1 hp. This goes up to 2/3/4 at levels 5/11/17.

There's also:
- Krugaan's Terrible Pun
- Krugaan's Magnificent Meandering Monologue
- Krugaan's Continual Casual Conversation

[Alerad]

Depends on how you like to play, I would allow it. The rules don't forbid it, but again I you are surprised then probably not.

My enemies usually start the combat with one protective spell (mage armor, armor of Agathys) as an opening before we roll initiative. I find it more suitable for role-play :) But talk to your DM first and don't abuse it much.