Lycantrope spellcaster

[Fascisticide]

Can a lycantrope cast spells when shapeshifted?

Or, more precisely for my game, can a wereshrimp cleric cast spells when in hybrid form? When aware of his condition as lycantrope but unable to control his change to animal form?

[Call Me Siggy]

Can a lycantrope cast spells when shapeshifted?

Or, more precisely for my game, can a wereshrimp cleric cast spells when in hybrid form? When aware of his condition as lycantrope but unable to control his change to animal form?

Wait, wait, wait.

Wereshrimp...cleric? :smalleek:

EDIT:Also, I think that Natural Spell, with a bit of DM fiat, could apply to this. Not too much of a stretch, as you're a WIS-based caster as well.

[Callix]

This looks like a DM-by-DM ore even game-by-game call. There's a chance you could take Natural Spell. There's a chance you couldn't. It's a grey area. Ask your DM and be ready to accept if they say no.

[Fascisticide]

I'm the DM, this is a character for a sidequest, I wanted to know what the rules would normally allow or not.

Some of you probably has used werewolf spellcasters before? How is it ruled for them?

[Call Me Siggy]

I'm the DM, this is a character for a sidequest, I wanted to know what the rules would normally allow or not.

Some of you probably has used werewolf spellcasters before? How is it ruled for them?

Well, if you're the DM, then just do it. Nothing's stopping you, you have full control of what the rules are.

Just tell the players to not mind it when the shrimp they've been carrying in a jar suddenly heals them.

[Yuki Akuma]

Generally, a creature only knows how to cast spells in its natural form (whatever that may happen to be). An awakened tiger knows tiger wizardry, and would be unable to cast spells if polymorphed into a human, for instance.

But, having a feat that lets you cast spells in another specific form sounds fine.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure all lycanthropes can cast any spells they might know while in their hybrid form.

[YuanTi]

I've never had a Lycanthrope PC, however a Wererat Cleric I had used the Surrogate Spellcasting feat (SS, Pg39). (It says non-humanoid, but I ignored that.) Basically the feat allows noises and actions to replace the real ones.

[Fascisticide]

Well, if you're the DM, then just do it. Nothing's stopping you, you have full control of what the rules are.
Yeah I know, but I hate to use a rule something one way for the PCs, and differently for the NPCs. And who knows, maybe one of the PCs will become a wereshrimp!


Just tell the players to not mind it when the shrimp they've been carrying in a jar suddenly heals them.
:smallbiggrin: That would be funny! But I don't think it will happen as the wereshrimp is the bad guy!


Yuki_Akuma, thanks for clarifications on casting in your natural form. But I think it's a bit fuzzy for the hybrid... but I will probably allow it to cast spells while in hybrid form.

[Call Me Siggy]

Still...wereshrimp. How does that happen?

[Jasdoif]

Yes, lycanthropes can be spellcasters. It's right in the entry:


A lycanthrope spellcaster cannot cast spells with verbal, somatic, or material components while in animal form, or spells with verbal components while in hybrid form.You need to get rid of those components in some fashion, but you certainly can cast spells in hybrid/animal form.

[BCOVertigo]

There is a PrC called Moon Guardian from complete divine I believe(maybe the web enhancement) that gives Natural Spell as a bonus feat, this seems to imply something.

[F.H. Zebedee]

Wereshrimps are created via cursed cocktail sauce, of course.

[Quietus]

In general, if you have a roughly humanoid form (that is, have hands to provide somatic components and a voicebox so you can pronounce the necessary words), you don't need to worry about it. A wereshrimp, however ... That depends on the limbs you've given it. If it has actual hands, and can speak, then no additional anything is needed.

If, however, it has the non-finger-using limbs of a shrimp, I'd give them the Surrogate Spellcasting feat, which lets you use your natural, nonhumanoid limbs/voicebox to cast spells, allowing, say, a giant eagle to replace words and finger positions with screeches and claw movements.

[Fixer]

House Rule:
If we are talking about a natural lycanthrope then I vote it can cast spells in any of its forms because they are all considered its natural forms.

If we are talking about an infected lycanthrope then I vote it can cast spells normally in its original form, with a Spellcraft check (DC 15+spell level) in hybrid form (provided it can speak in this form, otherwise it requires the silent spell feat), and cannot in animal form (barring silent/still spell feats being applied).

As far as I know there is no RAW on the matter.

[JellyPooga]

Just out of curiosity...

How big is this BBEG (or is he just a BG?) Shrimp?

And what's his base race?

Unless, of course, you've houseruled it, the animal form has to be within one size catagory of the base creature, so unless the base creature is also Fine or Diminutive, it's an illegal build (sorry to nit-pick).

Or is he based on a Giant Dire Shrimp or something?

All in the spirit of honest inquiry of course :smallwink:

[Fascisticide]

It's base race is an orc, he is an afflicted lycanthrope. I like the houserule about a spellcraft check in hybrid form.

I'm basing the shrimp stats on a Dire Mantis Shrimp I made... and mantis shrimps are badass! But I wouldn't have cared it it was to small to normally allow a medium creature as a wereshrimp.


Dire Mantis Shrimp
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 2d8+4 (13 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: Swim 20ft.
Armor Class: 17 (+1 Size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-1
Attack: Punch +3 melee (1d4+3)
Full Attack: Punch +3 melee (1d4+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Jet, Low-light vision, Mighty Clubs
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +0
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +5, Listen +4, Spot +9, Swim +6
Feats: Improved Initiative
Bonus Feats: Improved Sunder
Environment: Aquatic
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: 3-4 HD (Small), 5-7 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment:-


Mantis shrimps are crustaceans (actually not related to shrimps despite their name) which live mostly in coral reefs. They are fierce predators, and can kill preys many times their size.
There are many species of mantis shrimp, varying in size and color pattern. Advancement represents these different species of mantis shrimp.

Mantis shrimps are not very agile swimmers and prefer to stay on the bottom.

== About real mantis shrimps ==
With the force of a hammer’s blow, a mantis shrimp can smash the shell of a large snail that it then devours for dinner. In captivity, mantis shrimp have been known to shatter glass aquarium walls with their powerful kicks.
A large 25 cm Californian species (Hemisquilla ensigera) can strike with a force approaching that of a small-caliber bullet, and can easily break a double layer of safety glass.
Scientists now report that mantis shrimp deliver their blows at speeds of up to 23 meters per second, making them the fastest “striker” in the animal kingdom. Much of the speed comes from a special “spring” in the hinge of the leg that does the kicking.


== Combat ==
Improved Sunder : A mantis shrimp will not deliberately attack equipment, but it will do so if this equipment is the closest part of what is sees as a threat (or as a meal), like when a character attacks it with a spear or a shield.

Mighty Clubs (Ex) : A mantis shrimp’s punch is very good at breaking things. When attacking objects (like on a sunder attack), it deals double damage.

Jet (Ex) : A mantis shrimp can flee with a flap of it’s tail, moving in a straight line backwards for 40ft as a move action. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. On a sandy bottom, it will also raise a cloud of sand which reduces visibility to 5’ on a 15’ radius that lasts for 1d4 rounds.

== Skills ==
A Mantis Shrimp gets a +4 bonus on swim checks. It may always take a 10 on a Swim check.
Mantis shrimps have very good eyesight and receive a +6 racial bonus on spot checks

http://www.eco-divers.com/peterlange/15.jpg



This is for a Munchkin game, so it's not too serious and often includes parodies of classic d&d and fantasy elements. So in this case, the sidequest will be like a stereotypical werewolf story, with eventually enough hints for the players to think it's obviously a werewolf doing the killings... but no! it's a wereshrimp!
And a wereshrimp fits perfectly with the current part of the main quest in a fishing town involving a shipment of weapons, and pirates!

I've been thinking of other unusual lycantropes. Most lycanthropes are mammals or at least quadrupeds, definitely with the same symetry we humans have. But what if there were a lycantrope based on echinoderms, who have a 5-part symetry, for example a urchin. I wonder what it would look like...

And of course, the werehuman. Infected animals change into humans when it's the full moon and then pollute and destroy the nature around them. As my Munchkin game is a parody and criticism of real world politics, religions and society in general, this is my hippie side coming out...
I'll make a post about the werehuman in the homebrew section

[PinkysBrain]

Metamagic rods of silent spell aren't that expensive.

[NEO|Phyte]

There is a PrC called Moon Guardian from complete divine I believe(maybe the web enhancement) that gives Natural Spell as a bonus feat, this seems to imply something.

don't you also have to be a druid to qualify for said PrC?