The Pacifist Sage

[adonis53]

I'm making a deep gnome illusionist in 5e... how do I survive without taking a single damage spell?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I'm making a deep gnome illusionist in 5e... how do I survive without taking a single damage spell?

Buff, Urchin for stealth, and hide in someone's backpack?

A wizard never needs roll an attack or cast a damaging spell just like in 3e. Its one of the reasons they are broken.

[SharkForce]

literally never dealing damage is going to be difficult in 5e because that means you're probably only going to be able to cast a single concentration spell per fight and then basically do almost nothing. you'll probably want to ask for one or two homebrew cantrips that don't require concentration but in some way reduce the effectiveness of enemies for a turn (should still require saves, of course). stuff like single-round blind, maybe a dex-save restrain effect, and maybe a single-target one-round fear (probably a wisdom save). that might still be a bit strong, hard to say, really.

you could also ask about (or research) non-damaging versions of some spells.

that said, i don't really understand the idea of an absolute pacifist in D&D. it makes sense to refuse to attack, say, humanoids, animals, even humanoids generally considered to be evil as a race such as drow or orcs i suppose (provided you're a pacifist that is)... but why would you object to attacking most undead (particularly unintelligent undead, but also many intelligent evil undead), fiends, mindless constructs, and many aberrations?

[Dimers]

Using the Help action can kill enemies faster without damaging them yourself. But wizards typically don't want to be within 5 feet of a monster, and pacifists typically don't want to help kill enemies faster. There's no "aid defense" action in this edition, looks like.

Your best bet for a no-damage combat contribution is to design some debuffing cantrips, as SharkForce suggested. You can crib ideas from 4th-ed wizards.

[SwordChuck]

Cantrips

Gust, Mage Hand, True Strike

Gust to push creatures

Mage Hand to pick up weapons a ally can disarm.

Spells

Expiditious Retreat (pop potions in allies by getting to them fast), Charm Person(no battle...), Grease (lol), Unseen Servant (tons of uses, can be broken with a nice DM)


It just gets better from there...

Wizards don't need to do damage in 5e.

[adonis53]

literally never dealing damage is going to be difficult in 5e because that means you're probably only going to be able to cast a single concentration spell per fight and then basically do almost nothing. you'll probably want to ask for one or two homebrew cantrips that don't require concentration but in some way reduce the effectiveness of enemies for a turn (should still require saves, of course). stuff like single-round blind, maybe a dex-save restrain effect, and maybe a single-target one-round fear (probably a wisdom save). that might still be a bit strong, hard to say, really.

you could also ask about (or research) non-damaging versions of some spells.

that said, i don't really understand the idea of an absolute pacifist in D&D. it makes sense to refuse to attack, say, humanoids, animals, even humanoids generally considered to be evil as a race such as drow or orcs i suppose (provided you're a pacifist that is)... but why would you object to attacking most undead (particularly unintelligent undead, but also many intelligent evil undead), fiends, mindless constructs, and many aberrations?It's adventurerer's league so I can't research spells. :(
He isn't a pacifist in the way that he doesn't like hurting things, but more in the sense that he wants to challenge himself to find creative ways to do things without resorting to being a simple blow-it-up caster.


Using the Help action can kill enemies faster without damaging them yourself. But wizards typically don't want to be within 5 feet of a monster, and pacifists typically don't want to help kill enemies faster. There's no "aid defense" action in this edition, looks like.

Your best bet for a no-damage combat contribution is to design some debuffing cantrips, as SharkForce suggested. You can crib ideas from 4th-ed wizards.True, I should ask my dm if I can use my action to cast minor illusion and use it as the help action by making a bird fly in the enemy's face or something.


Cantrips

Gust, Mage Hand, True Strike

Gust to push creatures

Mage Hand to pick up weapons a ally can disarm.

Spells

Expiditious Retreat (pop potions in allies by getting to them fast), Charm Person(no battle...), Grease (lol), Unseen Servant (tons of uses, can be broken with a nice DM)


It just gets better from there...

Wizards don't need to do damage in 5e.
Interesting ideas. I already picked all of those spells except unseen servant. :P

As far as the cantrips go, I HAVE to have minor illusion and prestidigitation... they are just too much fun. And being that we're in the underdark I picked mold Earth as well. I've had great use out of mold Earth in the past and made a siege trivial by digging a massive trench, making the ten feet outside of it difficult terrain, and finally digging tunnels under the ground so they would collapse under the weight of the enemies. Those three cantrips have never failed me.

[JackPhoenix]

Sleep is one of the best level 1 combat spells, and it works great for pacifists (you won't kill anyone, just put them out of action)

[Shining Wrath]

If your goal is "what Wizard spells have combat utility without doing direct damage".
L1: Charm Person, Expeditious Retreat, False Life, Fog Cloud, Grease, Jump (for someone else), Longstrider, Mage Armor, Protection from Evil and Good, Shield, Sleep, Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Those last two can take a foe or foes out of a combat for the duration.
L2: Blindness / Deafness, Blur, Darkness, Darkvision, Enlarge / Reduce, Gust of Wind, Hold Person, Invisibility, Magic Weapon (someone else), Mirror Image, Misty Step, Ray of Enfeeblement, See Invisibility, Spider Climb, Suggestion, Web. Ray of Enfeeblement is very pacifistic; it makes an aggressive creature do less damage. You can "tsk. tsk. such misguided anger" when you cast it. Hold Person is a classic.

[adonis53]

Sleep is one of the best level 1 combat spells, and it works great for pacifists (you won't kill anyone, just put them out of action)

Yeah it is. Sadly I'm level one going into a fifth level party. Gotta catch up. :P

[SwordChuck]

Yeah it is. Sadly I'm level one going into a fifth level party. Gotta catch up. :P

In AL I believe the DM can make you level 3 at the end of the session. I've been to a couple different regions and I've seen the same trick pulled multiple times to get people up to speed with the party... Something about how they can reward XP different ways.

It's very important you level up or else you will be useless after one hit...

[SharkForce]

just to be clear, making the ground into difficult terrain is one of the effects on mold earth that lasts 1 hour... meaning you can only have 3 instances of it (each working on a single 5' cube of ground, iirc).

so you can dig a trench with a wall next to it, and make collapsing tunnels no problem (well, the tunnel would probably require an ability check of some sort), but you can't make a massive area into difficult terrain with it.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm making a deep gnome illusionist in 5e... how do I survive without taking a single damage spell?

By not adventuring.

Really, I don't think it's wise to play any sort of pacifist in a such an extremely combat-focused game like dnd. I've seen it a few times, and it hasn't worked in any of those cases. The farthest I'd go is refusing to kill sentients outright, but even that would require considerable buy-in from both GM and players to work.

[Strill]

Read Treantmonk's guide.
Part 1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IeOXWvbkmQ3nEyM2P3lS8TU4rsK6QJP0oH7HE_v67QY/edit)
Part 2 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZHzEjiHvtDItZE2ixfoYwqi7brTO-ag8uBJndE5saro/edit)

[SwordChuck]

By not adventuring.

Really, I don't think it's wise to play any sort of pacifist in a such an extremely combat-focused game like dnd. I've seen it a few times, and it hasn't worked in any of those cases. The farthest I'd go is refusing to kill sentients outright, but even that would require considerable buy-in from both GM and players to work.

From his posts he doesn't really mean pacifist or non-violent as much as "doesn't deal damage".

He still is a violent psychopathic murder hobo... Just one that let's his colleagues do most of the work since he gets a sick sense of pleasure from watching.

[adonis53]

just to be clear, making the ground into difficult terrain is one of the effects on mold earth that lasts 1 hour... meaning you can only have 3 instances of it (each working on a single 5' cube of ground, iirc).

so you can dig a trench with a wall next to it, and make collapsing tunnels no problem (well, the tunnel would probably require an ability check of some sort), but you can't make a massive area into difficult terrain with it.I guess we both read it too quickly then! I won't tell him if you won't! ;)


In AL I believe the DM can make you level 3 at the end of the session. I've been to a couple different regions and I've seen the same trick pulled multiple times to get people up to speed with the party... Something about how they can reward XP different ways.

It's very important you level up or else you will be useless after one hit...Last session the group got 4500 or so.. one session is all I will need.


By not adventuring.

Really, I don't think it's wise to play any sort of pacifist in a such an extremely combat-focused game like dnd. I've seen it a few times, and it hasn't worked in any of those cases. The farthest I'd go is refusing to kill sentients outright, but even that would require considerable buy-in from both GM and players to work.If it's his life or theirs, he'll pull out his only source of damage: his dagger. But that's only if he has no spells left which hopefully will never happen. By that point he would just dig a tunnel down and hide.


Read Treantmonk's guide.
Part 1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IeOXWvbkmQ3nEyM2P3lS8TU4rsK6QJP0oH7HE_v67QY/edit)
Part 2 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZHzEjiHvtDItZE2ixfoYwqi7brTO-ag8uBJndE5saro/edit)
Already have. I like actual conversations where I can ask for peoples' reasons rather than a handbook written by some person I've never met or even spoken to. Thanks though. :)

From his posts he doesn't really mean pacifist or non-violent as much as "doesn't deal damage".

He still is a violent psychopathic murder hobo... Just one that let's his colleagues do most of the work since he gets a sick sense of pleasure from watching.Finally! Someone who gets me!

[CaptAl]

Minor illusion to hide in a box with a peephole. As a gnome the size of the box works. Buff people, use your familiar to give advantage to the heavy hitters, debuff enemies, and generally be a nuisance without actually dealing damage.

It's tougher to do at the lower levels, and requires a good bit of creativity, but once you get up to 3rd level spells and get access to more potent illusions and counterspell its a good playstyle.

[Slipperychicken]

Minor illusion to hide in a box with a peephole. As a gnome the size of the box works. Buff people, use your familiar to give advantage to the heavy hitters, debuff enemies, and generally be a nuisance without actually dealing damage.

You might not need a peephole. Illusions are transparent to people who disbelieve them.

[CaptAl]

You might not need a peephole. Illusions are transparent to people who disbelieve them.

This is very true. And opens up a world of boulders, shrubs, and mounds of dirt in which to hide whilst not getting dirty.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Minor illusion to hide in a box with a peephole. As a gnome the size of the box works. Buff people, use your familiar to give advantage to the heavy hitters, debuff enemies, and generally be a nuisance without actually dealing damage.

It's tougher to do at the lower levels, and requires a good bit of creativity, but once you get up to 3rd level spells and get access to more potent illusions and counterspell its a good playstyle.

Not for this OP but you could really make a good Solid Snake character with this tactic.

Rogue (Swash) 14/Sorcerer (dragon or whatever) 6

Hide in illusionary boxes/barrels and then jump out and kill things. You can then leave the bodies in the illusions so others can't see them.