At-Will Mass Darkness

[deathbymanga]

So, I'm a Warlock with the Darkness and Charm Invocations, and I'm grabbing a lvl of Mindbender for that 100ft telepathy awareness. Is there a way to get 100ft Darkness or some other kind of Conceilment that I can use to hide myself from everyone around me?

[Malroth]

Two feats from "Drow of the Underdark" will be of help to you, Intensify Darkness turns your Darkness SLA into Deeper darkness SLA which has a 60 foot radius. And "blend into shadows" allows you to expend a use of darkness to make Hide checks even when observed.

[deathbymanga]

Two feats from "Drow of the Underdark" will be of help to you, Intensify Darkness turns your Darkness SLA into Deeper darkness SLA which has a 60 foot radius. And "blend into shadows" allows you to expend a use of darkness to make Hide checks even when observed.

I don't see the advantage to being 10ft away from the darkness. can't you just cast darkness on yourself and keep moving around?

[MisterKaws]

There are only two ways to get it that far, AFAIK: First is metamagic, which you can't quite afford spamming on SLAs; and the second is something you can't even access, Black Labyrinth, Shadowcaster's master-level Shadowscape path's last mistery, though it's a bit overkill, being essentially a colossal planar breach into a mix of the shadow plane and limbo.

[deathbymanga]

There are only two ways to get it that far, AFAIK: First is metamagic, which you can't quite afford spamming on SLAs; and the second is something you can't even access, Black Labyrinth, Shadowcaster's master-level Shadowscape path's last mistery, though it's a bit overkill, being essentially a colossal planar breach into a mix of the shadow plane and limbo.

so, outside of darkness, what's a good way to get wide burst conceilment to leave all my enemies vulnerable? Or would it be best to just grab at-will invisibility and ignore darkness?

[Troacctid]

I don't see the advantage to being 10ft away from the darkness. can't you just cast darkness on yourself and keep moving around?

The advantage is that if you hide, you have total concealment (they can't see you at all), whereas if you merely stand in an area of Darkness, you only have partial concealment (they have a 20% miss chance against you, but other than that, they can still see you just fine). Anyway, you'll usually use the feat to hide inside the dark area rather than outside it, because you still need the concealment in order to hide.

Also, technically, Darkness targets an object, not a creature, so you would cast it on something you're carrying, not on yourself, but the end result is mostly the same.

[deathbymanga]

The advantage is that if you hide, you have total concealment (they can't see you at all), whereas if you merely stand in an area of Darkness, you only have partial concealment (they have a 20% miss chance against you, but other than that, they can still see you just fine). Anyway, you'll usually use the feat to hide inside the dark area rather than outside it, because you still need the concealment in order to hide.

Also, technically, Darkness targets an object, not a creature, so you would cast it on something you're carrying, not on yourself, but the end result is mostly the same.

still feels like it's not worth it. would it be better to just grab at-will invisibility and attack people?

[Jeraa]

still feels like it's not worth it. would it be better to just grab at-will invisibility and attack people?

Yes, especially because the darkness would impair your allies as well as your enemies. However, do note that the invisibility breaks after a single attack, and you would have to reactivate it as a standard action. At best you would only be attacking every other round.

[Troacctid]

I mean, Walk Unseen is just a generally good invocation, so you can't really go wrong with it. Darkness is good too, but it could backfire if you screw up and allow it to conceal the enemy. Neither one is going to make you undetectable, though, if that's what you're hoping for. Your enemies can still hear or smell you.

[deathbymanga]

Yes, especially because the darkness would impair your allies as well as your enemies. However, do note that the invisibility breaks after a single attack, and you would have to reactivate it as a standard action. At best you would only be attacking every other round.

that doesn't seem helpful since I'm making a melee character.

so, Invisibility won't work. and Darkness won't be any better. What else is there?

Also, I don't care about blinding allies. consider this a solo character for all intents and purposes

Edit: Troacc, how would I go about being 100% undetectable then? Or at the very least, 75%

[Troacctid]

You could take the shadow creature template from Lords of Madness. It's +2 LA and it grants you shadow blend, which gives you total concealment as long as you're in any lighting condition less than full daylight. Again, this only stops them from seeing you, but it is always on and doesn't end when you attack. You also get some other nice abilities like evasion and fast healing.

100% undetectable is very hard because there are always exotic senses that will be able to find you, but you can get a better success rate by taking the Darkstalker feat and maxing out Hide and Move Silently.

[MisterKaws]

Collar of umbral metamorphosis gives you HiPS, so if you just get that along with your darkness, you can pretty much just use normal stealth to add up to your concealment, maybe get darkstalker because otherwise you're unlikely to be invisible anyway, seriously 80% of monsters post lvl 6 have some other form of 'sight'.

[elonin]

As i recall the collar doesn't last very long. Doesn't the darkness invocation let you see through the darkness? If that is the case why do you need mind sight? It's handy to have but not strictly necessary.

[deathbymanga]

You could take the shadow creature template from Lords of Madness. It's +2 LA and it grants you shadow blend, which gives you total concealment as long as you're in any lighting condition less than full daylight. Again, this only stops them from seeing you, but it is always on and doesn't end when you attack. You also get some other nice abilities like evasion and fast healing.

100% undetectable is very hard because there are always exotic senses that will be able to find you, but you can get a better success rate by taking the Darkstalker feat and maxing out Hide and Move Silently.

Darkstalker sounds more than perfect. Blindsense/sight and Tremorsense were my biggest worries. Lifesense is still an issue, as is Truesight and Mindsight, but that's more than enough since those are pretty rare.

Darkness doesn't let you see through the darkness. you need the Devil's Sight Invocation, and it still just lets you see through darkness and magical darkness, Mindsight lets you see Anyone in 100ft of you if they have a 1 or higher in Intelligence

But in terms of expanding Darkness, it seems just the 60ft version is the best I got

[Troacctid]

Mindsight doesn't let you see people, it just lets you detect them. If you don't have actual vision of them, they'll still have concealment or total concealment from you. If you were to close your eyes and only use your mindsight, you would know the location of your enemies, but you would suffer a 50% miss chance on every attack, as if they were invisible.

[MisterKaws]

As i recall the collar doesn't last very long. Doesn't the darkness invocation let you see through the darkness? If that is the case why do you need mind sight? It's handy to have but not strictly necessary.

10 minutes equals 100 rounds, that's twice the number of rounds an average caster would take to discharge all of his repertoire. It's enough.

[deathbymanga]

Mindsight doesn't let you see people, it just lets you detect them. If you don't have actual vision of them, they'll still have concealment or total concealment from you. If you were to close your eyes and only use your mindsight, you would know the location of your enemies, but you would suffer a 50% miss chance on every attack, as if they were invisible.

is there a way to ignore concealment for an opponent you can pin-point?

[Troacctid]

is there a way to ignore concealment for an opponent you can pin-point?

My usual method for a Warlock is to take a coure eladrin familiar with the Celestial Familiar feat and have it use its at-will Faerie Fire ability to negate the concealment. Of course, it doesn't work against fog or magical darkness, and it's subject to spell resistance, so it's not perfect.

Blindsight is probably the most effective way to ignore effects and conditions that block your line of sight. It's difficult to get, though. Probably the easiest way is the blindfold of true darkness, which blocks your normal sight but gives you blindsight out to 60 feet. Lists of stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454553-Lists-of-Stuff-(saved-from-Wizards-Community-Forums)) has more.

[Grod_The_Giant]

so, outside of darkness, what's a good way to get wide burst conceilment to leave all my enemies vulnerable? Or would it be best to just grab at-will invisibility and ignore darkness?
An Eversmoking Bottle ought to do you just fine, though it won't be subtle.

[deathbymanga]

My usual method for a Warlock is to take a coure eladrin familiar with the Celestial Familiar feat and have it use its at-will Faerie Fire ability to negate the concealment. Of course, it doesn't work against fog or magical darkness, and it's subject to spell resistance, so it's not perfect.

Blindsight is probably the most effective way to ignore effects and conditions that block your line of sight. It's difficult to get, though. Probably the easiest way is the blindfold of true darkness, which blocks your normal sight but gives you blindsight out to 60 feet. Lists of stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454553-Lists-of-Stuff-(saved-from-Wizards-Community-Forums)) has more.

Considering Darkness is the best way to get consistent concealment in the middle of combat for a melee warlock, fairy fire won't be that useful.


An Eversmoking Bottle ought to do you just fine, though it won't be subtle.

Items are less desirable in this situation since they are prone to DM refusal more likely than a build

[Grod_The_Giant]

Items are less desirable in this situation since they are prone to DM refusal more likely than a build
True, though it is a core item.