PDA

View Full Version : Let's Refine a Concept - Forest Gnome Beast Master Ranger



Kevingway
2015-12-28, 02:08 AM
This is something that I've been working on for a long time, so I'm trying my best to optimize it to the full extent of its abilities while solidifying the explanation of why this combination works to begin with.

So let's start simply: Forest Gnome. Small race, decent-ish stats. Intelligence doesn't really work with Ranger casting, but let's put that aside and say you'll be starting off with a 10 in Intelligence using standard array. Minor Illusion is a great cantrip for a class that doesn't have any cantrips, and while the "resist" DC is low, you'll be spending an enemy's action to overcome this illusion assuming you place it cleverly. We'll come back to this.

As a Gnome, you get a +1 in Dexterity. Go ahead and slap your standard array 13 on Dexterity and enjoy the results of medium armor. Wut? Yes, you're not building dexterity, you're building strength. This is going to be a thrown weapon/melee character, so equip yourself with a shield and ride into battle with some inexpensive javelins.

Wait, did he say ride? Of course. The title probably gives away that this concept is centered around mounting your animal companion, but why would I be wasting my breath optimizing this if I'm not making a halfling riding a dinosaur? Well, I have something... a lot better.

Giant badger. Gnomes love badgers or something, so this concept works out great for those who question situational fluff. What's more, badgers have this handy thing called a burrow speed. But let's iron out some rules before we get into that.

When you mount something, you have the choice of letting your mount act independently or "controlling" it. Let's envision "control" for a second: you're holding some reins, you're kicking your feet, you're basically physically guiding your mount to go where it's trained to go. When you're controlling your mount, you lose out on a handy little thing called the Help action, which is an action taken to grant someone else advantage. That someone else is you.

You want your mount to act independently. Alright, well how do we do that? Simple: you don't "control" it. Terminology in 5e rarely overlaps when referring to the same thing, and this case is no exception. Animal companions are, in fact, "commanded," meaning strictly that you are speaking to it and telling it where to go. As an independent mount, your animal companion still "helps you to the best of its abilities" and willingly serves you despite being an unintelligent mount. Since it willingly serves you, you don't have to control it to get it to do what you want; it independently and always by RAW follows your commands.

So why are we focusing so much on the Help action? Well, remember that burrow speed? Imagine a scenario where you start combat 30 feet away from an opponent. As a low-level ranger, you have your companion use the Help action on you as you move into battle. You maybe spend your bonus action on a spell or some ****, who cares.

Next round, you go ahead and initiate the grapple action. That's right. Your gnome is grappling any medium creature with advantage. Now your mount decides to eat some worms or something and burrows underground, dragging your grappled pal with it (you on top doing the dragging, of course). You move 5 feet under, maybe another 5 feet next round, who knows. Good thing you stacked your AC. Eventually you get bored and burrow back to the surface, and here's where things get fun.

When you don't have a flight speed, you fall when you're in the air. So what happens if you don't have a burrow speed? Well... let's say suffocation.

What's that, party members? Oh, I took care of him. Let's short rest here and wait for our loot.

Maybe not every DM will go with that, but I believe it's the majestic blue dragon that has a common tactic of collapsing things on top of unsuspecting prey and burrowing out from the rubble to do exactly what your bloodthirsty gnome is doing. Ultimately, you have a means of countering most medium creatures assuming they don't have a burrow speed or some kind of magic, though the main question is how your DM decides to handle the supposed "tunnels" you may or may not be leaving by burrowing in the first place. Are they able to climb back up? Alright, let's have the party grease the surface or something: you're not alone in initiating this horrific scene. Maybe you want to keep the enemy at a mere 5 feet under so the party can attack the enemy's face as it struggles helplessly against the binding dirt.

Whatever the case, your mount willingly following your every command is what makes it able to act independently as a mount and still be useful, so you always have a means of gaining advantage on most of your attempted actions without fail, especially when you can initiate these things as bonus actions at higher levels.

So let's go back to minor illusion. Your party screwed up and you have to escape down a corridor, but this corridor is made of stone and you can't burrow through it. Alright, so while your mount is bonus action dashing away since it hasn't attacked, your gnome's responsibility is to place as many illusions as possible to delay the advance of the pursuers. Large spike on the ground? Sure! Sound of a nonexistent party member calling out for you guys from behind? Whatever, figure it out! Since you aren't using your own action dashing, you can waste the pursuers' dash actions on handling illusions, ensuring your party's safe escape. Is this always ideal? Probably not, but just options. Illusions are fun!

Not having touched on spell options and other means of making this great, what do you think would be some ways to refine the concept and make a versatile character that can handle most of what's thrown at it using this template? I like it because it's a nice little rules puzzle that's reminiscent of 3.5e without becoming terribly broken (lots of setup). You have a means of handling medium creatures, and larger creatures you'd fight the normal way while banking on your mount's awesome attack options. What can make it better?

Socratov
2015-12-28, 04:22 AM
Oh, that is just nasty. For further optimization of Roleplaying purposes have him travel around with a tea set (he is civilised after all). Also, the dig spell is going to be gold in this case, if you can get it...

rlc
2015-12-28, 04:23 AM
Well, rock gnomes get con and, if deep gnomes are on the table for a playable race, they get str, so both of them get a better secondary improvement for this. You don't get minor illusion, though, so you'll just have to figure out another backup plan, but that isn't too hard at all. Just set actual traps for enemies you can't outfight, instead of pretend ones.

Socratov
2015-12-28, 05:52 AM
Well, rock gnomes get con and, if deep gnomes are on the table for a playable race, they get str, so both of them get a better secondary improvement for this. You don't get minor illusion, though, so you'll just have to figure out another backup plan, but that isn't too hard at all. Just set actual traps for enemies you can't outfight, instead of pretend ones.

the thing implied in this is that forest gnomes get to speak to small beasts. If instead of controlling, you get to talk to your companion you can use the help action to create that advantage. That is the crux of this build.

-Jynx-
2015-12-28, 09:47 AM
I like the concept, but one thing to consider. Simply grappling a M sized creature doesn't mean it will fit in the hole your badger makes. Even another S creature probably wouldn't fit in that hole with you and the badger all at the same time (since you're still mounted).

Kevingway
2015-12-28, 12:03 PM
I like the concept, but one thing to consider. Simply grappling a M sized creature doesn't mean it will fit in the hole your badger makes. Even another S creature probably wouldn't fit in that hole with you and the badger all at the same time (since you're still mounted).

True, though by RAW it'd be perfectly reasonable to say that everything fits. Trying to eliminate all DM discretion possible with this build (no feats/multiclassing), though this is one of those things that can't slide as easily.


the thing implied in this is that forest gnomes get to speak to small beasts. If instead of controlling, you get to talk to your companion you can use the help action to create that advantage. That is the crux of this build.

Heck, technically I don't even need it. Apparently an animal companion can understand any command you give it in any language, since that would be how you would have trained it. For flavor, I'd command it in "small beast speak" even though by default it wouldn't normally have understood me. I just like the forest gnome because it grants dexterity, so I can have a stat-wise maxed out AC with medium armor and a slightly higher spell save DC at the cost of strength. At low levels, the advantage on strength checks would negate the little added bonus, in my opinion.

Forest gnomes are also the only ones I can see actually riding a badger into battle.

-Jynx-
2015-12-28, 12:39 PM
True, though by RAW it'd be perfectly reasonable to say that everything fits. Trying to eliminate all DM discretion possible with this build (no feats/multiclassing), though this is one of those things that can't slide as easily.


I don't know that reasonable is the word, but it's not against raw. Though wouldn't you rely heavily on feats? Mainly grappler/tavern brawler.

Kevingway
2015-12-28, 12:46 PM
I don't know that reasonable is the word, but it's not against raw. Though wouldn't you rely heavily on feats? Mainly grappler/tavern brawler.

I'd be using my bonus action to control my pet or cast a spell of some kind, so I wouldn't necessarily need tavern brawler. As for grappler, I've never really understood what's so great about it. The advantage may be nice, but if I'm grappling something, I can always use a bonus action to establish advantage again if I really want to attack it and not just suffocate it. I've always preferred higher stats to optional rules in this edition for some reason.

Douche
2015-12-28, 12:49 PM
You just need to get a second party member to take my homebrewed "Shovelmaster" feat, so that as soon as you drop your foe underground, they can quickly use a shovel to plop all that dirt on top of them and bury them alive before they can climb out.

I have used this strategy on ancient dragons numerous times, never fails.

-Jynx-
2015-12-28, 01:23 PM
I'd be using my bonus action to control my pet or cast a spell of some kind, so I wouldn't necessarily need tavern brawler. As for grappler, I've never really understood what's so great about it. The advantage may be nice, but if I'm grappling something, I can always use a bonus action to establish advantage again if I really want to attack it and not just suffocate it. I've always preferred higher stats to optional rules in this edition for some reason.

I can see the need to not have Tavern Brawler, Grappler however would allow creatures one size category larger to not auto-succeed on their break, and it allows you to fully restrain an opponent if you need to which can be beneficial for what you're going for. Since you're using the badger to give you advantage on the check already, the extra +2 in STR for example is a much smaller improvement in comparison.

Kevingway
2015-12-28, 09:52 PM
I can see the need to not have Tavern Brawler, Grappler however would allow creatures one size category larger to not auto-succeed on their break, and it allows you to fully restrain an opponent if you need to which can be beneficial for what you're going for. Since you're using the badger to give you advantage on the check already, the extra +2 in STR for example is a much smaller improvement in comparison.

I wouldn't want to be restrained along with them, though if I'm mounted I'm not exactly sure how the rules would play out. What's more, the part about auto-succeeding has been errata'd; it was never a rule to begin with that anything larger auto-succeeds.

Foxhound438
2015-12-29, 06:59 PM
use a vulture instead.

Kevingway
2015-12-29, 10:23 PM
use a vulture instead.

I don't know of too many DMs who are happy to allow flight at level 3.

SpawnOfMorbo
2015-12-29, 10:36 PM
I don't know of too many DMs who are happy to allow flight at level 3.

Probably the same number that allows Birdperson's race as a playable race from level 1.

tieren
2015-12-30, 11:31 AM
Magic initiate could be fun to pick up mold earth, thorn whip and maybe faerie fire.