Spell Sniper + SCAG BB and GFB = 10 feet reach?

[Gignere]

Just wanted to see if other posters agree with my interpretation of the interaction between spell sniper and booming blade/greenflame blade. Spell Sniper doubles the range of any spells that require an attack roll. Both BB and GFB require a melee attack roll so by RAW it should mean their range are double too.

I think I might use this combo in an upcoming game, if the RAW is enough to support it.

[Corran]

I really think you need a reach weapon to pull it through.

Spell sniper does allow you to use as your target of your BB/GFB someone 10 feet away from you, but after you designate that enemy as your target, you still need to make a melee attack against that enemy. So unless you have a reach weapon, or the lunge maneuvre from the battlemaster to apply to that attack, then you simply cannot try to hit the enemy that the spell is targeting. At least that is how I interpret it.

So basically, you need to meet 2 requirements. The spell's range, and the melee attack's reach.

Hence imo, all the spell sniper does in that respect, is to allow you to use BB/GFB combined with reach weapons, so that you can hit targets at 10 feet way from you.

[WickerNipple]

Hence imo, all the spell sniper does in that respect, is to allow you to use BB/GFB combined with reach weapons, so that you can hit targets at 10 feet way from you.

I believe you're right.

Also means I have to find room for spellsniper in my whip-BB build. Grrrr.

[Toadkiller]

I would let the "splash" damage from GFB go 10 feet but not the initial attack. I would, however, allow the use of reach weapons without a feat.

[Corran]

Whip and BB = fun!
Out of curiosity, what class are you considering?

Here are some general thoughts.

Spell sniper allows the reach and limits you to a reach weapon (but gives you BB and benefits against cover). It does not give you a way to constantly move away from your target, so that the secondary effect of BB will be triggered in a regular basis.

Mobile allows you all you want if your aim is to harrass one enemy, does not limit your weapon selection, but assumes you already have BB as a cantrip. Problem is, you are in trouble if surrounded by more than 1 enemies.

Rogue 2 gets cunning action. So same as mobile, but without the negatives for when being adjacent to more than 1 enemies.

Sorcerer 3 gives you twin metamagic. Twin BB and running away is fun!

[MaxWilson]

Spell sniper allows the reach and limits you to a reach weapon (but gives you BB and benefits against cover). It does not give you a way to constantly move away from your target, so that the secondary effect of BB will be triggered in a regular basis.

But, reach weapons intrinsically let you kite certain kinds of common enemies (those with 5' reach). It's not nearly as good as Mobile once the enemies actually corner you, but it does have some built-in retreat capability to use with Booming Blade--presumably that's why the OP is interested in whips.

Watch out for prone enemies. Taking disadvantage vs. advantage keys off of being at greater than 10' range, not on whether you're melee vs. ranged. So with a reach weapon, prone = bad.


Mobile allows you all you want if your aim is to harrass one enemy, does not limit your weapon selection, but assumes you already have BB as a cantrip. Problem is, you are in trouble if surrounded by more than 1 enemies.

Rogue 2 gets cunning action. So same as mobile, but without the negatives for when being adjacent to more than 1 enemies.

It's a tangent, but--Rogue 2 is worse than Mobile in the case of enemies with 30' movement, because Rogue 2 leaves you still in range to be attacked by them, but Mobile gets you safely out of reach. Longstrider can help with that.

Also, Mobile works against Sentinel enemies, but Disengage does not.

Remark: I tell my players to envision Mobile as the bomb-maker at the beginning of Casino Royale when he is running from James Bond. Nothing slows you down.

[Gignere]

Haven't thought through the full build yet but thinking about using a whip and a shield. Ideally it will be an arcana cleric but chances are I won't be able to come up with a way to nab a reach weapon and get Spell Sniper at level 1. Maybe Fighter 1 and Arcana Cleric, eventually going Fighter 7 or 8 and arcana cleric 7 or 8.

[Corran]

Funny, I was thinking of a drow cleric of Lolth with a whip. Perhaps trickery domain (Lolth appropriate) and 2 levels of rogue. And now I noticed that neither drows, nor trickery clerics or rogues have proficiency with whips! Dammit, the whole point of this character was to be a drow and use a whip! Aaaaarghhhhh!!!!!! :smallfurious:

[DracoKnight]

Funny, I was thinking of a drow cleric of Lolth with a whip. Perhaps trickery domain (Lolth appropriate) and 2 levels of rogue. And now I noticed that neither drows, nor trickery clerics or rogues have proficiency with whips! Dammit, the whole point of this character was to be a drow and use a whip! Aaaaarghhhhh!!!!!! :smallfurious:

Warlock 3/Cleric X Pact of the Blade gives you whips. And if you go fiend, you could fluff it as you're also a Warlock of Lolth.

[Foxhound438]

I believe you're right.

Also means I have to find room for spellsniper in my whip-BB build. Grrrr.

Vuman EK; have polearm master at L1, grab war caster at 4 and spell sniper at 6, BB as your entry reaction

[Foxhound438]

also, as a side note, you super don't need proficiency with the whip right away. your hit chance will suffer slightly, but take level 2 in fighter to fix that.

[Drackolus]

99.9% sure that's not RAI. But that's not what we're asking ;)

However, it is a "a spell that requires you to make an attack roll" with a range listed as "5 ft."

Maybe it's not gamebreaking. Maybe it is. if you're using Polarm Master, I'm pretty sure you can then use War Caster to use Booming Blade with it then at 10 ft. I suppose you're talking about three feats and a cantrip (all accomplishable by an EK easily, or variant human), and it still wouldn't work with Searing Blade since it has two targets.

[Malifice]

The spells dont have attack rolls.

They simply allow you to make an attack with a weapon as part of the casting.

Its more than just semantics too.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Funny, I was thinking of a drow cleric of Lolth with a whip. Perhaps trickery domain (Lolth appropriate) and 2 levels of rogue. And now I noticed that neither drows, nor trickery clerics or rogues have proficiency with whips! Dammit, the whole point of this character was to be a drow and use a whip! Aaaaarghhhhh!!!!!! :smallfurious:

How amenable is your DM to a custom Background: Dominatrix?...

[JackPhoenix]

How amenable is your DM to a custom Background: Dominatrix?...

That falls under "Entertainer", doesn't it? Or an Acolyte/Noble with drow

[Coyote81]

For those worried about getting out of combat for BB, Rogue 3 Swashbuckler has that ability built in.

[Gignere]

The spells dont have attack rolls.

They simply allow you to make an attack with a weapon as part of the casting.

Its more than just semantics too.

If what you say is true than a lot of spells don't have attack rolls. Look at scorching rays wording it says it allows you to make a spell attack. GFB and BB allows you to make a melee attack. The wording is very similar. How can one Scorching involve attack rolls but GFB and BB doesn't? Unless you are arguing that spell sniper doesn't apply to scorching ray as well.

[ryan92084]

If you want a RaI twitter answer the legwork is done for you. Spell sniper + GFB/BB + Reach weapon = 10ft range

Spell Sniper does work green-flame blade
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/09/can-booming-blade-and-green-flame-blade-used-with-a-whip/ at the end


If what you say is true than a lot of spells don't have attack rolls. Look at scorching rays wording it says it allows you to make a spell attack. GFB and BB allows you to make a melee attack. The wording is very similar. How can one Scorching involve attack rolls but GFB and BB doesn't? Unless you are arguing that spell sniper doesn't apply to scorching ray as well.

Spell sniper just requires a spell with an Attack Roll and both of these spells have a melee weapon attack component. Melee Weapon Attacks and Spell Attacks both involve Attack rolls so I agree with your assessment.

I think malifice is trying to say that GFB/BB allows you a melee weapon attack outside/in addition to the spell cast and therefore wouldn't count.

[Dalebert]

"When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll, the spell’s range is doubled." -Spell Sniper

"As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails." -Booming Blade

It requires you to make an attack roll. The end. I don't understand how that could be any clearer. Now the developers have said that Spell Sniper doesn't extend the length of your arms but that's why you need a reach weapon to complete it. You can say it "allows" you to make an attack roll but that's an odd rephrasing of "must make".