Interesting enemy idea.

[camcam9999]

So, I'm designing a campaign, which means I'm designing a BBEG, and I thought of something interesting to do. What if I had one character be two? So, I was thinking a a pair of twins, but instead of two characters, they could be built like one. They would have the same abilities, same action economy etc., and I was wondering how I could execute this. I wanted to make a summoner, where each half would control their own eidolon. Should I do this? if I do, how best should I implement it, I'm a fairly new DM so I'm not particularly good at it.

[atemu1234]

Sounds like Dvati from 3.5. Dragon Compendium. Should convert... easily enough.

[camcam9999]

Thank you very much! I'm thinking a dvati broodmaster summoner

[Uncle Pine]

Yeah, I don't know if PF has a similar race, but Dvati from Dragon Compendium (3.5, but you should be able to port it easily) seems a nice pick.
Don't forget to choose a meaningful word, split it in two part and name each twin with one half of the word (i.e. "Summ" and "Oner"). And have them talk in rhyme.

[Âmesang]

Just make sure one of your players isn't Steven Seagal…

[John Longarrow]

Do NOT call them Tomax and Xamot.

[Uncle Pine]

Do NOT call them Tomax and Xamot.
Indeed, it wouldn't suit them. OP wants to build Summoners, not whatever the people from G.I. Joe are.
Call them Para and Dox.

[atemu1234]

Yeah, I don't know if PF has a similar race, but Dvati from Dragon Compendium (3.5, but you should be able to port it easily) seems a nice pick.
Don't forget to choose a meaningful word, split it in two part and name each twin with one half of the word (i.e. "Summ" and "Oner"). And have them talk in rhyme.

They are the brothers Para and Dox!

[LordOfCain]

About Dvati, do they share a full round's worth of actions or do they each have their own actions except for spellcasting. I.E. Can a pair of dvati twins both move 30 feet and attack 2 different people??

[Boci]

About Dvati, do they share a full round's worth of actions or do they each have their own actions except for spellcasting. I.E. Can a pair of dvati twins both move 30 feet and attack 2 different people??

Yes, they also get a bonus for attacking the same target from a flank (beyond the bonuses of flanking). Only spell casting requires shared action.

[LordOfCain]

Thanks Boci.

[camcam9999]

So how would this translate to the summoner? I'm assuming there's a shared eidolon, but do they get to command it for twice the normal actions since they both get movement and standard actions?

[Uncle Pine]

So how would this translate to the summoner? I'm assuming there's a shared eidolon, but do they get to command it for twice the normal actions since they both get movement and standard actions?
I've only read the Summoner like, once, but I suppose each one of the Dvati twins would get his own eidolon, much like they'd get two familiars.

[camcam9999]

That sounds a bit broken, considering the eidolon is the main class feature. I want to put my players thorugh hell, but I want them to have at least a chance.

[Necroticplague]

I've only read the Summoner like, once, but I suppose each one of the Dvati twins would get his own eidolon, much like they'd get two familiars.

Why would they get two familiars? They have only one class feature that lets them call one. They'd have one familiar, and share it.

Relevant to the original question, I'm not sure what is being asked. Eidolons act independently of the summoner. So the fact there are two wouldn't allows the eidolon any more actions.

[camcam9999]

Oh, duh. I was thinking that they were controlled like an animal companion, you use your action to make them do theirs

[Uncle Pine]

Why would they get two familiars? They have only one class feature that lets them call one. They'd have one familiar, and share it.
I reread the Twins ability descriptions and you're right, I got it mixed up. A Dvati Summoner would only get a single eidolon, meaning it's less intriguing in the first place.


Oh, duh. I was thinking that they were controlled like an animal companion, you use your action to make them do theirs
However, note that even if you (somehow) had two people giving commands to an animal companion it would only have one set of actions, not two.

[AlanBruce]

I'm guessing this is Pathfinder? If you are the DM, have you looked at the Protean Scourge (MM3)? It's a NE monstrous humanoid that casts as a 12th level sorcerer and can fight very well using a scythe.

However, despite the fact that it advances through class levels (sorcerer being its favored class, I believe), a Protean Scourge has a (Su) ability called Split, which means that if the PS is hit by a slashing weapon, it divides into a second and very real Protean scourge. Both share the same spell pool, but if well optimized, they can destroy the action economy.

It would not be out of place for a clever PS to cut himself awhile back and then have each half train individually. One focusing on magic, the other possibly going gish, so as to complement in battle.

Of course, if you throw in an AMF, they'll recombine, but it is never stated that they have to be adjacent or within the AMF for that to happen. each twin may be working the same agenda in different parts of your world.

[Aleolus]

Here's an idea. They only have one true Eidolon, but they can split it into two (less powerful) ones and put it back together whenever they want/need to

[camcam9999]

I'm guessing this is Pathfinder? If you are the DM, have you looked at the Protean Scourge (MM3)? It's a NE monstrous humanoid that casts as a 12th level sorcerer and can fight very well using a scythe.

However, despite the fact that it advances through class levels (sorcerer being its favored class, I believe), a Protean Scourge has a (Su) ability called Split, which means that if the PS is hit by a slashing weapon, it divides into a second and very real Protean scourge. Both share the same spell pool, but if well optimized, they can destroy the action economy.

It would not be out of place for a clever PS to cut himself awhile back and then have each half train individually. One focusing on magic, the other possibly going gish, so as to complement in battle.

Of course, if you throw in an AMF, they'll recombine, but it is never stated that they have to be adjacent or within the AMF for that to happen. each twin may be working the same agenda in different parts of your world.

I intend for the enemy to befirend the party, and use them a while before thye go rogue, so I don't want it to be obvious that the enemy is evil

EDIT: I see the shape changing ability now... possibly, but I wanted to make the character a devout follower of tiamat as well, and protean scourges don't seem like they'd be very religious

[PersonMan]

If you want, you can easily make this one (these two?) an exception to that rule, or decide that Protean Scourges are servants of Tiamat in your world.