[3.5] Building my First Gish.

[Malak'ai]

Hi there Playground.

Wow, been a while since I've asked for build advice, but this one's kinda stumping me.

I'm looking to build a Warblade/Wizard Gish as a possible replacement character for my current Bard mish-mash.

I have access to nearly all the books except Eberon, and the only Dragon content allowed is whats found in the Dragon Compendium.

My stats, in no particular order are 18, 16, 13, 15, 18, 17. If this character does have to be brought into the game, they'd be coming in at level 13 with 125% WBL.

The party they'd be joining are a group of merc's who use hit and run/raid tactics. We aren't really interested in having a big tank/bruiser type guy standing still and going toe-toe with the enemy for rounds on end.

Any suggestions or build advice would be great. Thanks.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, you are likely looking at a JPM warblade gish. You do need to decide if you want to be more wizard or more warblade.

I suggest the following

Warblade 1 / Wizard 5 / Jade Phoenix Mage 7. Your full build will finish with JPM 10 and then Abjurant Champion 4

You end up with 17bab, 9th level spells cast at CL17, and 15 initiator level.

Feats are really open for selecting whatever you want. Combat casting is needed for Abjurant Champion and not a bad idea to begin with.

Int>Con>Str>Dex>Wis>Cha

[TheTeaMustFlow]

If you're going ToB, Jade Phoenix Mage is normally a good bet. Personally, my favourite such build is Crusader 1/Wu Jen 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4 (Wu Jen for both Body outside Body and the Transcend Mortality/Emerald Immolation combo), but you can easily switch Crusader and Wu Jen to Warblade and Wizard.

[Snowbluff]

I suggest JPM if you've experience with ToB.

The other three options are:
Abjurant Champion focused build (usually Sorcadin)
Swiftblade (Wizard6/Swiftblade9/Spelldancer1/AbjChamp4)

You might want to look at some equipment. Make sure to use Greater Magic Weapon to save some money on weapons.
Twilight Armor is pretty good to help shore up AC, unless you're casting Luminous Armor (BoED).
Make sure to check your list of necessary items. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items)
Spell Storing Weapons are pretty handy.

[avr]

If you want to advance both magic and a warblade's blade magic you've got just the one choice, JPM, true. A couple of desert wind maneuvers at around this level will help mobility which you sounded like you wanted. You should be reasonably effective as a fighter who buffs up before entering combat.

You won't know many maneuvers, so grab one or two of the items in ToB which grant you knowledge of other maneuvers. Crown of the White Raven etc.

One other gish besides those Snowbluff mentioned. Level 13 is actually very good for a duskblade. They get to attack everyone around them with vampiric touch, they can dimension door around, they can do a bit of blasting if the mood so strikes them.

[KellKheraptis]

If you don't have your heart set on ToB, a Wizard/Swiftblade can wreak havoc on the opposition. With the right optionals available, you can even pick up persist tech :)

[Triskavanski]

My experience with Gishs..

Extend spell is awesome. Most of my Gish spells tend to be Buffs so Extend spell makes them all the better.

Whirling Blade is pretty good IMO for a Gish attack. Gives you a ranged attack you can do without having to spend too much.

I personally prefer spontaneous casters over prepared. Sure the spells might come a tad slower, but if your DM allows Knowstones you don't have to worry too much about spells known. Cides that, the Battle Sorcerer is pretty good for most gishing.

[Xervous]

My experience with Gishs..

Extend spell is awesome. Most of my Gish spells tend to be Buffs so Extend spell makes them all the better.

Whirling Blade is pretty good IMO for a Gish attack. Gives you a ranged attack you can do without having to spend too much.

I personally prefer spontaneous casters over prepared. Sure the spells might come a tad slower, but if your DM allows Knowstones you don't have to worry too much about spells known. Cides that, the Battle Sorcerer is pretty good for most gishing.

By going battle sorc you're throwing away most of the one real advantage a sorcerer has over a wizard, more spells slots. You're also tanking your spells known something harsh. Sure, knowstones can make up for this deficit but it gets expensive for higher level spells. Plus, if we look at the side by side comparison of sorc v. wiz for this case, the wizard could just be spending an equivalent sum on procuring pearls of power to match the sorc's volume of casting while still enjoying his spell level advantage.

The downsides (lost spells) tag along for whatever PrCs you nab while the upsides (+1BAB ever four levels, +2 avg hp per level) only last for your sorc levels. Ideally the Gish will delve into a PrC ASAP, usually JPM or Swiftblade, both of which you enter at level 7 (barring cheese)

[Snowbluff]

If you don't have your heart set on ToB, a Wizard/Swiftblade can wreak havoc on the opposition. With the right optionals available, you can even pick up persist tech :)

With my above build you can persist ocular Haste or persist Swift Haste (Swift Haste is a personal spell that functions as Haste). :smallsmile:

[KellKheraptis]

With my above build you can persist ocular Haste or persist Swift Haste (Swift Haste is a personal spell that functions as Haste). :smallsmile:

I didn't even see that, though Spelldancer is exactly what I was going to suggest.

[Snowbluff]

I didn't even see that, though Spelldancer is exactly what I was going to suggest.

Mhm. If anyone is curious, the spelldancer has dumb requirements that happen do be mostly shared with/between swiftblade and abjarant champion.

[Triskavanski]

By going battle sorc you're throwing away most of the one real advantage a sorcerer has over a wizard, more spells slots. You're also tanking your spells known something harsh. Sure, knowstones can make up for this deficit but it gets expensive for higher level spells. Plus, if we look at the side by side comparison of sorc v. wiz for this case, the wizard could just be spending an equivalent sum on procuring pearls of power to match the sorc's volume of casting while still enjoying his spell level advantage.

The downsides (lost spells) tag along for whatever PrCs you nab while the upsides (+1BAB ever four levels, +2 avg hp per level) only last for your sorc levels. Ideally the Gish will delve into a PrC ASAP, usually JPM or Swiftblade, both of which you enter at level 7 (barring cheese)

There is also the ability to wear light armor and not have spell failure. Being able to choose your spells you cast too (Though this one could be done by using Uncanny Forethought for a wizard) You also don't need any other feats/classes to qualify for Swift blade/Abjurent Champion.

[Fouredged Sword]

I note you are starting at level 13. You stated you want to play a warblade gish (the above JPM build is the best), but I also want to let you take a look at my favorite gish build.

Wizard 5 / Ruathar 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7

It's a weird build in that it acts like a Gish without being a true Gish. It lacks +16 bab, but your defenses are through the roof and you can wield a longsword in melee without blinking. The advantage is that you are looking at 20/20 casting with free quickened extended/abjurations up to 3rd level and silly good ability to avoid death.

[John Longarrow]

I'd suggest you borrow a build I've had for a bit. Crazy guy who loves walking around in monks robes with a staff.

Build for a warblade-centric Gish...
Lvl 1 Warblade(1) Feat Power Attack
Lvl 2 Sorcerer(1)
Lvl 3 Sorcerer(2) Feat Combat Casting
Lvl 4 Warblade(2)
lvl 5 Sorcerer(3)
Lvl 6 Sorcerer(4) Feat Dodge
Lvl 7 Warblade(3)
Lvl 8 Abjurant Champion(1)
Lvl 9 Abjurant Champion(2) Feat Practiced Spell Caster (Sorcerer)
Lvl 10 Abjurant Champion(3)
Lvl 11 Abjurant Champion(4)
Lvl 12 Abjurant Champion(5)
Lvl 13 Dragon Slayer(1)

Gives you a BAB of 11 and caster level of 13. Your AC will be good. Some of the spells you will want are;
L1 Shield
L2 Scintillating Scales - Abjuration that gives you a deflection bonus to AC equal to your Con. (Draconomicon)
L5 Draconic Polymorph - Polymorph but on steroids. (Draconomicon)

Grab a beat stick. This is a staff with greater mighty wallop cast on it by a high level caster. Even better if its also a Runestaff with spells you don't otherwise have. At least make sure its a magic weapon with the sizing property (Magic Item Compendium) so you can still use it regardless of what size you change into.

Trick is to roll in, buff your AC quickly, then change into a big, nasty form and beat the crap out of things. With a caster level of 13 you can start off by changing into a wartroll and proceed to beat things. With a STR or 39 on a large frame, 14 natural armor, 31 con to drive your scales your AC will be -1 for size, 9 from shield, 15 from con, 3 from dex, 9 from natural = touch 36 regular 45 without burning anything special. Your bonus to hit in melee with your beat stick is fantastic to. -1 for size, 11 from bab, 14 from strength for +25/+20/+15 (not including what bonus/bonuses you put on the beat stick)

Forgot to note three things important with this build;
1) Normally uses the rune staff for AoE spells. Should have more than one.
2) If you think the fight is important enough to use the draconic polymorph, you'll toss a quickened Shield (Thanks Abjurant Champion!) followed by the draconic polymorph. 2nd round you toss a quickened scales followed by hitting things. Between having the staff change size to keep up with you and greater mighty wallop you should be hitting for 4d6 + 14 with your two handed beat stick. Toss in Power Attack, a stance, and maybe a maneuver and you should be dropping things pretty quickly.
3) Because of how hard this build can hit and how hard it is for monster to hit it, the DM in the only game I played him told me I had to change characters. Really fun to play for the one adventure though! The other 'big and hitty' the group had was a guy running some kind of optimized druid grapple monster. Guy was left in the dust when I started walking through things.

[Xervous]

There is also the ability to wear light armor and not have spell failure. Being able to choose your spells you cast too (Though this one could be done by using Uncanny Forethought for a wizard) You also don't need any other feats/classes to qualify for Swift blade/Abjurent Champion.

Depending on the acceptable level of optimization at the table, the sources available, and other restrictions on your build Battle Sorc is often something of a fallback for getting the needed martial weapon proficiency. Elves and Lesser Planetouched come with free martial weapon proficiency of varying stripes, and a few of those lend themselves quite nicely to wizarding.

Kobolds also come with a sprinkling of martial proficiency when you use the web enhancement as well as a juicy feat for +1 sorc casting to bring them on par with wizards' progression.


Looping around to the topic armor. Early levels you'd be wearing a chain shirt when you can afford it. The extra health will be a nice buffer against stray glances making you go splat and the BAB will give you a handful of extra hits over time. It's nice if you want to try playing a gish from low levels, but without any serious buff spells available you're coming across as a cleric minus the utility... of course high ability score rolls / buys will permit a more well rounded build that can address all the issues of survivability, melee prowess, and casting potency.

Average HP discrepancy of 14 points over the total 6 levels (if going swiftblade) or 12 over 5 (if going JPM)

Once you get a high enough CL mage armor will function effectively all day, granting you the same AC bonus until the armored Sorc upgrades to magical armor. For the additional cost of 1450 gp a Feycraft Mithral Chain shirt with Thistledown Suit has 0 ACP and 0 ASF, (1000 mithral, 500 feycraft, 250 thistledown, -300 for masterwork non mithral).

TLDR: Battle Sorc is nice for surviving low levels, but other options should be looked into if starting at higher levels or if you are confident in your capabilities for surviving low levels as a squishy sorc.

[Troacctid]

Wizard 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage is a relatively easy, paint-by-numbers build. If you're comfortable with Tome of Battle mechanics, it's what I'd recommend.

Focus on maneuvers as your main combat strategy and plan on using most of your spells for utility, or for situations where maneuvers might be impractical. (For example, if all your maneuvers are limited to a single target, you may want to have some fireball-type spells in case you run up against a horde of weaker enemies.) Don't be afraid to prepare niche spells, because you can always feed them to Arcane Wrath if you don't end up needing them. And make sure to pick up a spell-storing weapon—those things are great for gishes.

Strength and Intelligence should be your highest stats. It's down to playstyle preference which one you want higher; Strength will make you more effective in combat, whereas Intelligence will give you more spell slots to toss around.

[Xervous]

Gives you a BAB of 11 and caster level of 13. Your AC will be good. Some of the spells you will want are;
L1 Shield
L2 Scintillating Scales - Abjuration that gives you a deflection bonus to AC equal to your Con. (Draconomicon)
L5 Draconic Polymorph - Polymorph but on steroids. (Draconomicon)


Scintillating scales was updated for 3.5e. It now applies your natural armor bonus against touch attacks.

[Triskavanski]

Depending on the acceptable level of optimization at the table, the sources available, and other restrictions on your build Battle Sorc is often something of a fallback for getting the needed martial weapon proficiency. Elves and Lesser Planetouched come with free martial weapon proficiency of varying stripes, and a few of those lend themselves quite nicely to wizarding.

Kobolds also come with a sprinkling of martial proficiency when you use the web enhancement as well as a juicy feat for +1 sorc casting to bring them on par with wizards' progression.


Looping around to the topic armor. Early levels you'd be wearing a chain shirt when you can afford it. The extra health will be a nice buffer against stray glances making you go splat and the BAB will give you a handful of extra hits over time. It's nice if you want to try playing a gish from low levels, but without any serious buff spells available you're coming across as a cleric minus the utility... of course high ability score rolls / buys will permit a more well rounded build that can address all the issues of survivability, melee prowess, and casting potency.

Average HP discrepancy of 14 points over the total 6 levels (if going swiftblade) or 12 over 5 (if going JPM)

Once you get a high enough CL mage armor will function effectively all day, granting you the same AC bonus until the armored Sorc upgrades to magical armor. For the additional cost of 1450 gp a Feycraft Mithral Chain shirt with Thistledown Suit has 0 ACP and 0 ASF, (1000 mithral, 500 feycraft, 250 thistledown, -300 for masterwork non mithral).

TLDR: Battle Sorc is nice for surviving low levels, but other options should be looked into if starting at higher levels or if you are confident in your capabilities for surviving low levels as a squishy sorc.


I still don't think Batttle is just a low level surviability then replace with something else if you're higher level. You can go from the Mithral Chain shirt to Breastplate. I think there are somethings out there that could let you even wear fullplate without ASF.

3 bab from 6 levels of wizard vs 5 bab of 7 Battle Sorcerer. If you're wanting to get the full number of attacks, You can't really sacrifice anymore from a character who is a wizard base vs someone who is a battle sorcerer base. If you're going into epic levels, the wizard could knock you out of the the ability to have 4 attacks, as opposed with the BS who could more easily keep all 4 attacks.

Of course when I build my Gishes, I'm up in the fray first rather than sitting back and casting spells and using my martial prowess after the fact. I'm also typically not allowed the web enhancements, or tomb of battle.

[John Longarrow]

Scintillating scales was updated for 3.5e. It now applies your natural armor bonus against touch attacks.

Good to know. I'll have to look for it. With 14 NA on a war troll that is some serious boost VS touch attack.

Still, build is solid fondue, but very fun!

[Cerefel]

One of my favorite ToB gish builds is Crusader 1/Bard 7/JPM 2/ Sublime Chord 2/JPM +8

It gets its casting stat to will saves and two abilities that boost CL.

[KellKheraptis]

Also, have you given psionic gishes a look? I've got a doozey further down the main page, and any of the myriad psychic warrior builds can gish with the best of them (with my favorite being the <enter executive position here> of Smack).

[John Longarrow]

Malak'ai,

Very important question that can help get you a build that is right for you. How do you want to play this gish?

1) Melee combatant that also casts spell (self buff)
2) Melee combatant that that uses Area of Effect spells / Battle field control before going in close
3) Melee combatant that channels their spells through their melee attacks to boost their damage
4) Spell caster who is also very good in melee for those cases where they can't cast
5) Versatile character who is good at both melee and magic (Balanced build)

[Endarire]

I'm echoing others here. Are you a warrior foremost who casts spells or a caster who sometimes goes martial? It's quite possible to be a full Wizard and use alter self, polymorph, et al to do melee stuff.

If you want to be a full caster who gishes with a minimum of effort, consider a Druid. There's even an 'encyclopedia' for it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook)!

[Snowbluff]

If you want to be a full caster who gishes with a minimum of effort, consider a Druid. There's even an 'encyclopedia' for it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook)!

I love eggynack. This is a good guide. Very thorough.

[Malak'ai]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

The character I was thinking of was more of a Dex based hit-and-run melee guy who buffs himself up the wazoo.

The party already has a BFC and Utility Wizard, a melee Binder, a Ranger/Barb/Deepwood Sniper archer (acutally very effective) and my current Bard/Warchanter/Virtuoso/Marshal mish-mash.

Unfortunately Druids and Crusaders are not allowed in this game.

I had a very rough idea bouncing around in my head, Warblade4/Wiz3/AbjChamp4... How would this work?

[Troacctid]

The character I was thinking of was more of a Dex based hit-and-run melee guy who buffs himself up the wazoo.

Now that sounds like a Swiftblade.

[John Longarrow]

I had a very rough idea bouncing around in my head, Warblade4/Wiz3/AbjChamp4... How would this work?

Sounds like your taking a +2 LA if your coming in at 13th level.
Warblade 5 / Wizard 1 / Abj Champ 5 can be more potent only because you'll have a better BAB and your caster level will equal your BAB. I would suggest picking up the feats Dodge and Iron Will and two ranks in tumble also so you qualify for Dragon Slayer (Draconomicon). This will get you another point of BAB, D10 HP, a caster level, and immunity to fear as a one level dip.

Check with your DM to see if they will also let you dip a level in SpellSword (Complete Warrior) for another point of BAB, another caster level, and strong Fort and Will saves.

If you are taking more than 3 non-casting levels, you may as well try to get into Abj Champ as quick as possible. If you take 3 or less non-casting levels you still hit 9th level spells before going epic and can do the normal games for grabbing epic spells.

[Malak'ai]

Now that sounds like a Swiftblade.

Would like it, but the DM is very iffy about Web enhancements, so 90% chance he'll say no, and I don't really have any real interest in arguing the point.


Sounds like your taking a +2 LA if your coming in at 13th level.
Warblade 5 / Wizard 1 / Abj Champ 5 can be more potent only because you'll have a better BAB and your caster level will equal your BAB. I would suggest picking up the feats Dodge and Iron Will and two ranks in tumble also so you qualify for Dragon Slayer (Draconomicon). This will get you another point of BAB, D10 HP, a caster level, and immunity to fear as a one level dip.

Check with your DM to see if they will also let you dip a level in SpellSword (Complete Warrior) for another point of BAB, another caster level, and strong Fort and Will saves.

If you are taking more than 3 non-casting levels, you may as well try to get into Abj Champ as quick as possible. If you take 3 or less non-casting levels you still hit 9th level spells before going epic and can do the normal games for grabbing epic spells.

Sorry, that's me not paying full attention while typing. It's supposed to be WB4/W3/AbC4/EK2.

I'm not worried about Epic spells. We don't use them for one, and this game most likely wont go epic. As for 9th, they'd be nice, but not essentual.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You're not taking Abjurant Champion 5 or Jade Phoenix Mage, but you're losing a caster level from Eldritch Knight? That's not a super great idea, in my opinion. Don't forget that JPM is full base attack and full casting, and you qualify by default: the requirements are a stance, two maneuvers, second-level arcane spells, two ranks each in K(history), (arcana) and (religion), and 9 ranks Concentration - all stuff you'll have anyway (you're int-based - you should have 1 rank in each knowledge anyway, and Concentration drives excellent maneuvers and spellcasting in combat).

In addition, you lose a full spell level by going warblade 4/wizard 3/abjurant champion 4 instead of warblade 2/wizard 6/abjurant champion 3, which just isn't worth it.

Remember to take your warblade levels late, after the wizard levels, to get higher-levelled maneuvers (IL 4 and 5 if you take them after wizard 6). You lose a few skill points, though.

[John Longarrow]

Malak'ai

Something to check with your DM on because its a weird issue with ToB; by the rules as written Warblade only gets martial melee weapons (like sword sage) but EK requires all martial weapons. The DMs I know hand wave this to be all martial weapons OR consider it good enough to get into EK or SpellSword.

Reason I was saying to check with your DM about SpellSword is because its such a default one level dip in gish builds because there is no downside to dipping into it.

ExLibrisMortis
Wizard 6 / Crusader 1 / SpellSword 1 works out mechanically better than 2 levels warblade as it gives you an extra caster level. Just food for though for your next Gish. (Crusader gets all martial weapons, unlike sword sage and war blade).

[ExLibrisMortis]

ExLibrisMortis
Wizard 6 / Crusader 1 / SpellSword 1 works out mechanically better than 2 levels warblade as it gives you an extra caster level. Just food for though for your next Gish. (Crusader gets all martial weapons, unlike sword sage and war blade).
I know, but Malak'ai requested a warblade gish.

[DEMON]

If ToB is on the table (which it is in this case) and your DM is drunk and/or insane, Arcane Swordsage can be a fantastic gish.
Pretty much self-qualifies for JPM, too.

For a Warblade/Wizard combo starting at lvl 13, I'm fond of Warblade 3 / Wizard 4 / Abjurant Champion 5 / JPM 1. Your BAB and CL is 11, your IL is 8 and you have 7 levels ahead of you that grant you both spellcasting and initiator levels.

Of course, going with as many true caster levels as possible is the most powerful option mechanically, but where's the fun in that? (for me, YMMV)

[Malak'ai]

You're not taking Abjurant Champion 5 or Jade Phoenix Mage, but you're losing a caster level from Eldritch Knight? That's not a super great idea, in my opinion. Don't forget that JPM is full base attack and full casting, and you qualify by default: the requirements are a stance, two maneuvers, second-level arcane spells, two ranks each in K(history), (arcana) and (religion), and 9 ranks Concentration - all stuff you'll have anyway (you're int-based - you should have 1 rank in each knowledge anyway, and Concentration drives excellent maneuvers and spellcasting in combat).

In addition, you lose a full spell level by going warblade 4/wizard 3/abjurant champion 4 instead of warblade 2/wizard 6/abjurant champion 3, which just isn't worth it.

Remember to take your warblade levels late, after the wizard levels, to get higher-levelled maneuvers (IL 4 and 5 if you take them after wizard 6). You lose a few skill points, though.

As I said, it was just an idea rolling around in my head. I've read quite a few topics where the Eldritch Knight has ben recomended.

In saying that, I have decided to go with JPM instead :smallsmile:.


Malak'ai

Something to check with your DM on because its a weird issue with ToB; by the rules as written Warblade only gets martial melee weapons (like sword sage) but EK requires all martial weapons. The DMs I know hand wave this to be all martial weapons OR consider it good enough to get into EK or SpellSword.

Reason I was saying to check with your DM about SpellSword is because its such a default one level dip in gish builds because there is no downside to dipping into it.

ExLibrisMortis
Wizard 6 / Crusader 1 / SpellSword 1 works out mechanically better than 2 levels warblade as it gives you an extra caster level. Just food for though for your next Gish. (Crusader gets all martial weapons, unlike sword sage and war blade).

Yeah, the DM is pretty easy going on those sort of things. As long as you're proficient in the weapon you're using he doesn't really have a problem.


I know, but Malak'ai requested a warblade gish.

Thank you :smallsmile:.

I know people are extreamly eager to help that they sometimes gloss over what the OP has ask for; and I love reading about different build ideas/class combo's, but it is nice when someone re-iterates the OP's wishes.

Just to make it 100% crystal clear, that last statement wasn't meant to be negitive in any way. I do truely really enjoy reading up on all build idea's and trying to figure out their tricks :smallcool:.


PS: Happy New Years everyone, and please forgive any spelling/ grammatical errors. I have been consuming adult beverages for most of the day, am I'm dyslexic to boot, so I think I've done pretty well for only being able to see out of one eye with my tongue hanging out the opposite side of my mouth :smalltongue:.

[John Longarrow]

So far the most potent build I've worked out is
L1 Warblade(1) Feats: Iron Will (required for Dragon Slayer) + Able Learner (Makes it easier to get required skills)
L2 Wizard(1)
L3 Wizard(2) Feat Combat Casting (Required for Abj Champ)
L4 Wizard(3)
L5 Wizard(4)
L6 Warblade(2) Feat Dodge (Required for Dragon Slayer)
L7 SpellSword(1) (Requires only a BAB of 4)
L8 DragonSlayer(1)
L9 Abjurant Champion(1) Feat Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge)
L10 Abjurant Champion(2)
L11 Abjurant Champion(3)
L12 Abjurant Champion(4) Feat - Any...
L13 Abjurant Champion(5)

This gives you both a BAB and CL of 11. Spellsword gives you both BAB, CL, and decent HPs. Dragon Slayer gives you BAB, CL, decent HPs, and immunity to fear. Getting three attacks a round and casting 6th level spells makes for a very nasty gish. I put in Able Learner since the different prestige classes have enough odd skill requirements that not paying double for them lets you still have skill points for other useful skills.

[Fouredged Sword]

.

This seems the best build if you do not intend to go into JPM.

It is hard to do a warblade gish build without JPM as JPM is the only initiator focused gish class. You can go normal gish with a dash of warblade, but that to me doesn't feel like a gish.

[John Longarrow]

JPM looses caster levels as 1st and 6th. I was trying to offset those losses as much as possible. I've always tried to build a Gish that has equal fighting and casting ability. Its hard to find a good reason to take an initiator level over a caster level.

[Fouredged Sword]

JPM looses caster levels as 1st and 6th. I was trying to offset those losses as much as possible. I've always tried to build a Gish that has equal fighting and casting ability. Its hard to find a good reason to take an initiator level over a caster level.

The definition of a "Gish" is a character who gets both +16 bab (and thus +16/+11/+6/+1, meaning only static bonuses away from a full BAB full attack) while still receiving 9th level spells.

This means you can lose 3 caster levels on a wizard chassis or 2 on a sorcerer chassis. Warblade 1 and two lost to JPM fits the bill nicely. The problem is that no other PRC advances both arcane casting AND maneuvers.

While generally Wizard 20 > Gish from a pure power perspective, gishing is fun and effective.

[Endarire]

Wizard5/Warblade1/Jade Phoenix Mage2/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Finish JPM. This way, you get L9 spells, 16 BAB, and maneuvers of higher levels.

[atemu1234]

Wizard5/Warblade1/Jade Phoenix Mage2/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Finish JPM. This way, you get L9 spells, 16 BAB, and maneuvers of higher levels.

But what type of Wizard? Abjurers are nice with Abjurant Champion, but Transmutation has Polymorph.

[John Longarrow]

But what type of Wizard? Abjurers are nice with Abjurant Champion, but Transmutation has Polymorph.

That's the beauty of wizards, you can be what ever kind you need to be depending on the situation. Be a diviner ahead of time so you know more about what you will face, be BFC when you need, be blasty when you need, ect...

There is a reason they call wizards the batman of the game. They can prepare for anything. Course they do need to prepare properly. I've always felt specialization should be for sorcerers instead of wizards. The whole point of being a wizard is versatility.

[MisterKaws]

Just to add to what everyone has said: You can (ab)use Heroics to get maneuvers known/extra slots, which can be changed anytime you want just by throwing in another casting, and a cheap one at that.

[Endarire]

Transmutation (for buff slots) and Conjuration (for Abrupt Jaunt) and Gray Elf Generalist (for bonus slots and Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat) are all viable.