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Enlong
2007-06-12, 05:33 PM
Yo. I'm working on stuff for the newest Design contest (libraries) and I thought I'd run an idea by here before I continue. So, constructive criticism welcome, suggestions very welcome. Oh, and 10 points to whoever gets what inspired this particular artifact.

The Tomes of Linking

These books, each one a tall and thick volume, are a series of gateways to other worlds. Each Tome is a thick, hard-covered tome that is about 8 inches tall, 5 inches wide, and 3 inches thick. Each book’s cover is simply a solid color, with the name of a plane written on the spine in an ornate hand in gold. Within the book can be found a detailed and all-encompassing description of the world named on the side. The description is flawless, and details the world’s history, from beginning to present time, including highly detailed illustrations, and perfect descriptions of all the creatures that live there. All descriptions are objective, with no political alterations to the truth, as if described by some omniscient observer who planned all the events.
Despite the wealth of knowledge that can be found in the books descriptions, the real value of the Tomes are to be found in the very back of the book. On the final page, there is a small square, about 3 inches to a side, with an animated picture of the world that the book describes. The picture is clearly magical, showing the world from a perspective that flies across the landscape, showing many of the sights described in the text, before ending with a fixed perspective on a single spot. If a creature touches the square, they are transported to the dimension shown on the square, as the Plane Shift spell, except where noted below. The creature that touches the square appears on the exact spot as shown in the final perspective of the moving picture. A creature that is transported in this way appears to become insubstantial, and then is bodily sucked into the picture, leaving no trace.
Almost invariably, another Tome can be found in any world that one Tome links to, that will take a person back to the place where they first used a Tome.

Strong Conjuration; CL 20th; weight 2 LB

So what do you think? Good? Bad? Too powerful/not powerful enough for an artifact? Too limited?

Rumda
2007-06-12, 05:39 PM
with it being an artefact I don't think it should just be limited to just one plane It should be maybe all the inner and outer planes

Enlong
2007-06-12, 05:46 PM
Well, see, the idea is that each book is part of a set, collected in a hidden room in the library I was planning, so that with all of them together, you did have access to all the planes.

But now that you mention it, that does make more sense. As it stands, the Tomes are just the equivilant of a Plane Shift spell. Perhaps I should consolidate it all into one gravity-defyingly large volume, with descriptions and linking pages to all of the planes, like you said. Hm.. is that powerful enough to make it a Major Artifact? Seeing as it allows instant travel to any plane in the multiverse?

PiedPiper
2007-06-12, 05:48 PM
While conceivably an epic item, I don't see this as an artifact. Artifacts are incredibly powerful, and often exact a steep price from those wishing to use them. Considering that Atrus's library was FULL of these at one point, I think artifact status is stretching a bit.

Now, a book that conferred upon the reader the ability to write these...that's another story.

Rumda
2007-06-12, 05:54 PM
well to get it up to major artefact level as well as having at least one linking page to all the planes, you could have extra linking pages to different layers and locations on a sigle plane and maybe some linked locations in the material, and possibly a couple of items tied in to it

MeklorIlavator
2007-06-12, 05:55 PM
Or maybe one that allowed the reader to make new entries, something similar to the genisis spells, but without as amny restrictions.

GryffonDurime
2007-06-12, 05:55 PM
Someone's a Myst fan.

Or an Uru addict.

Anyway...if you want to make a true Artifact...go with something more powerful and rare than a Linking Book. The Descriptive Book to the Prime Material plane would be a valuable tool. As would something more akin to Relto.

Tracersmith
2007-06-12, 06:01 PM
i would make it 1 book to the inner planes and then 1 to thhe upper planes and 1 to the lower planes

Enlong
2007-06-12, 06:02 PM
Right. That makes sense. I gotta remember, Magic Items, even Epic Magic Items, are one thing; and Artifacts are something else entirely.

So you think that these books (or this book) would be better off as an Epic Magic Item?

So then, for an Artifact, it'd be better if I create a book that confers upon the reader the knowledge of the Art? Lessee... well, since the Art results in the creation of an entire world, and the means to get there, it'd need some serious drawbacks, though I'm having trouble thinking of them... perhaps something like forcing the reader to write a world before he can do anything else, or being forced to live in the first world they create? Suggestions would be welcome.

(also, Piedpiper gets 100 cookies and 100 points for knowing this)

EDIT:

Okay, Griffon Durime gets 100 points and cookies as well for giving me such a good idea for the artifact, as altering the worlds is a much cooler and more immediate ability then learning how to write worlds. Still though, aside from a bunch of negative levels, I'm not sure what prices to give such an item. Because to change reality in that way, some kind of huge price is needed.

PiedPiper
2007-06-12, 06:18 PM
The Descriptive Book for the pm plane would be amazing. Especially in the hands of someone who didn't care AT ALL about the denizens of the plane. Frankly, the Descriptive Book for any plane would be artifact worthy. It's possible that the price to be paid for using these artifacts wouldn't be paid by the user, but by the populace of the planes involved. Very moral-dilemmaish for PCs. Also a good plot hook in the hands of a villain.

GryffonDurime
2007-06-12, 06:35 PM
Two points I'd like to throw out there:

1) Remember that you're not creating a world, just a link to that world in your multiverse.

2) A Descriptive Book could be even more destructive...considering that I'd argue for one major inclusion at the Epic Artifact level: when a Descriptive Book is destroyed, we know that all links to that world immediately sever.

Which could possibly even make a plane inaccessible from Plane Shifts, Gates, etc...

Of course, now I'm getting Myst in my DnD. Or DnD in my Myst.

...Man! Now I want to go figure out how to run Myst/Uru in DnD.

Enlong
2007-06-12, 06:44 PM
Quick note about note 1. In Myst, Linking Books could, in fact, create or control Ages (remember, Atrus spent years rewriting the Riven Book to try and curb Gehn's progress, and Gehn wrote hundreds of Linking Books before he made that age with his study) but that's neither here nor there.

So, I'm getting the vibe that for this idea, a Linking Book is an item that transports you to a world, whereas a Descriptive Book (must find a better name) is reality for that world, and its existence is the reason that Linking Books work. I had the idea that the Descriptive Books, after their creation, "write" themselves, adding any relevent information. Though, in order to avoid making this too much like another book someone came up with (kind of like the book idea we're already doing, except it's a book of history, and you can tear out pages to erase events), this book should only be able to change the present, but even with that limitation, the book would have incredible power, as you'd be able to alter reality a lot within the present time.

I would like to say again that I love the idea behind the Descriptive books, and it's a great addition, as my Library was already going to be themed around other worlds and dimensional alteration.

I was thinking that the Description Book's price could, in addition to the possibility of huge reprecussions that the PC can't predict, and massive XP cost (I'm thinking, as it's even less restrictive then Wish, something closer to 8,000 XP per alteration, depending on the magnitude of it) that it would also bind him to the book, so that if the book were to be damaged, so too would the player who had altered it. What do you think?

Poppatomus
2007-06-12, 06:50 PM
I was thinking that the Description Book's price could, in addition to the possibility of huge reprecussions that the PC can't predict, that it would also bind him to the book, so that if the book were to be damaged, so too would the player who had altered it. What do you think?

Best way to do that would be to require the character to, before using the book, right his life history into it. It would take 1dX days to do, and once done he would be able to alter the information in the pages (You should deliniate exactly what one can and can't do with such a book, otherwise it might be too powerful)

HOwever, the pages on which he's written his name and history aren't protected by the same magic as the rest of the book, which has the power of an entire plane protecting it. So now, in addition to being somehow connected to that plane, anyone that finds the book can change aspects of your life, erasing class levels, skill points, memories, XP, items, even one's very existance. Very powerful, but huge drawbacks.

EDIT: infact, maybe there could be only one page on which this could be done, so taking hold of the book REQUIRES you to erase another creature from existance, or steal their life, or some such. Speaking of, theft of life could be an option. Someone finds the book, replaces your name with their name, and gains all of your levels, skills, and memories, leaving you a lonely amnesiac wondering an ancient library.

GryffonDurime
2007-06-12, 07:02 PM
Quick note about note 1. In Myst, Linking Books could, in fact, create or control Ages (remember, Atrus spent years rewriting the Riven Book to try and curb Gehn's progress, and Gehn wrote hundreds of Linking Books before he made that age with his study) but that's neither here nor there.



With respects, you are incorrect. (http://www.dnidesk.com/rawalink97.html) Atrus' alterations, as were clearly described, had to be very specific and careful so as not to change too much, lest the book shift from linking to one age to another in the same vein as one of the ages from the Book of Atrus.

The actual mechanics are quantum, with Descriptive Books as ultimate observational forces. Anna and Katran were particularly adept at performing such alterations...there is no creation, only description and linking.

Enlong
2007-06-12, 07:37 PM
Best way to do that would be to require the character to, before using the book, right his life history into it. It would take 1dX days to do, and once done he would be able to alter the information in the pages (You should deliniate exactly what one can and can't do with such a book, otherwise it might be too powerful)

HOwever, the pages on which he's written his name and history aren't protected by the same magic as the rest of the book, which has the power of an entire plane protecting it. So now, in addition to being somehow connected to that plane, anyone that finds the book can change aspects of your life, erasing class levels, skill points, memories, XP, items, even one's very existance. Very powerful, but huge drawbacks.

EDIT: infact, maybe there could be only one page on which this could be done, so taking hold of the book REQUIRES you to erase another creature from existance, or steal their life, or some such. Speaking of, theft of life could be an option. Someone finds the book, replaces your name with their name, and gains all of your levels, skills, and memories, leaving you a lonely amnesiac wondering an ancient library.Oooooooohh! That is great! Very big drawbacks and possibilities for incredible mischief. This Book would have to be in a very, very, very, very hidden corner of the library. This book would appeal to any adventurer, as I see it. Any Good person would probably only use it in extreme cases (I.E. Saving the entire plane from an otherwise unstoppable apocalypse) and any evil or incredibly greedy character would use the book without any qualms, but then go through enormous pains to protect it.
In addition to writing your history and becoming indentically vulnerable, I think that a person could only change the present, must give up XP depending on the severity of the change, and the magnitude of the changes must have an upward limit (DM's choice, and gameplay wise, it'd be explained as the book's own power resisting your alterations if they are too large, creating an alternate, but inaccessable plane with your changes and an alternate you, preventing you from reaping rewards that are too large) How does that sound?

My bad Griffon, guess I didn't read too far into the quantum stuff when I still had the guide for Riven. I understand what you mean, though.

DracoDei
2007-06-12, 07:47 PM
The shear amount of skill necessary to get the alterations you want reliably is STAGGERING... Try DC 30+ in EACH of these knowledges:
Nature
Geology
Survival
Arcana
Dungeoneering
Spellcraft
The Planes?

It is only by having an EXCELLENT knowledge base that you can ever reliably pull off the change you want. Anything else and your are like Gehn, forever unable to get what you want exactly.

Enlong
2007-06-12, 08:26 PM
Okay, I understand the need of knowledge in

Nature, Geography, Arcana, but why Dungeoneering?

Also, Survival and Spellcraft are their own checks, there's no Knowledge for them.

I'd suggest the addition of History to the mix; helps to know what the world you're altering is like.

aaron_the_cow
2007-06-12, 08:30 PM
you could make it so that its in a book thats pages are stored in extra dimentional space (the book can hold 1000 pages, you need 100000 pages, so as you turn the pages,the old ones disapear and the new ones apear.

Enlong
2007-06-12, 08:36 PM
you could make it so that its in a book thats pages are stored in extra dimentional space (the book can hold 1000 pages, you need 100000 pages, so as you turn the pages,the old ones disapear and the new ones apear.

Yeah, it makes sense. Extradimensional books are good. Right. This'll be an awesome book and library. In a couple minutes I'll post up my completed Book for critiquing.

Poppatomus
2007-06-12, 08:38 PM
you could make it so that its in a book thats pages are stored in extra dimentional space (the book can hold 1000 pages, you need 100000 pages, so as you turn the pages,the old ones disapear and the new ones apear.

I think I had to read that book for the last paper I wrote.

PirateMonk
2007-06-12, 09:05 PM
An idea for a further drawback (assuming you aren't completely done yet):

As above, to use it, you must bind yourself to the book, and therefore to the plane itself, and therefore possibly to the pantheon associated with it. This can have several effects, based on the desired outcome. First, you are bound to the plane, so you can't leave and are stuck on that plane until the day you die. Second, damage not just to the book affects you, but also to the world and the gods. The standard solution when faced with these problems is to write them away, getting drawn further into the book...

Enlong
2007-06-12, 09:15 PM
An idea for a further drawback (assuming you aren't completely done yet):

As above, to use it, you must bind yourself to the book, and therefore to the plane itself, and therefore possibly to the pantheon associated with it. This can have several effects, based on the desired outcome. First, you are bound to the plane, so you can't leave and are stuck on that plane until the day you die. Second, damage not just to the book affects you, but also to the world and the gods. The standard solution when faced with these problems is to write them away, getting drawn further into the book...
Ah, so a person who meddles with it is bound, by the prospect of what could happen to him, to forever defend the book, forever writing away damage to himself if the book is sought after, and attaining godlike power at the cost of his freedom...

Very good. This book would truly be a self-made prison. Any use of it would either be the noblest sacrifice or the biggest screw-up of your life. This would definately be a good artifact to base a campaign around, with a BBEG who's given up his soul and future in defending the book...

edit: Now that I think about it, I think the "place your own history in the book, allowing it to be rewritten or your identity stolen" is enough of a "binding to the book" as a drawback, wouldn't you say?

Man, now I really want to get MYST 4, or at least finish MYST 3 and 5.

Enlong
2007-06-12, 11:02 PM
All right. After going through some sites describing some of the rules about it, I think I'm ready to show you my Descriptive book, geared for DND rules.



The Descriptive Book

This is a giant, leather-bound, hard-copied book, about seven inches tall, six inches wide, and four inches thick. Its cover is a rough, solid color, and its spine has the name of a plane written on it in the ornate scrawl of an unknown hand. Within the book is a description of the plane named on the spine, describing, in detail, the entire plane, from its geography, to its physics, to its magic. One page of the book holds a small panel showing a certain place in the plane that, when touched by living tissue, transports the creature that touched it to the plane, at the exact area shown in the picture.
This particular book is the most important and powerful one pertaining to the plane it describes. The Descriptive Book is linked to the plane that it describes, and in addition to allowing transport to the plane on its own, it also allows the creation of the Linking Books, lesser forms of itself which act as simple portals to the plane. The existence of the Descriptive Book is what allows the various Linking Books to function. If the Descriptive Book were to be destroyed, then all Linking Books leading to that plane would permanently cease to function.
The text of the Descriptive Book for a plane can be altered. Certain lines and passages can be erased, new ones added, or old lines altered in some way. If the alterations are done carefully and correctly, it can effect actual changes in the reality of the world it describes. In order to rewrite any part of the Book, the person who wishes to change it must first pay 10,000 XP, and then make a check in Knowledge: Nature, Knowledge: Geography, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: The Planes, and Knowledge: History. The DC for these checks is dependent on the magnitude of the change desired, as shown on Table: The Descriptive Book, If you choose to write for a full 1D4 days before the changes occur, then the DC of the check is subtracted by 5. If he or she succeeds on all of these checks, then the changes that he or she wrote into the book become real. The person who made the changes must then write their own personal history into a blank page in the end of the book. This act takes 1D4 days to complete. The character’s history can be altered by anyone who chooses to, causing in immediate changes to the character; his or her death can even be written in to their history, and if their own personal page is ever destroyed, then all the effects of their alterations are undone. Any further alterations must wait 1D4 days, whereupon you pay the XP attempt the checks again; however, if you have already done it once, then you do not need to rerecord your history.
If he or she fails any one of the knowledge checks, then it is assumed that he or she wrote accidental contradictions into the world. In this case, the Book, unable to maintain its link with the plane due to the paradoxical changes, shifts to a link with another plane which is parallel to the plane it originally linked with, but accommodates all the changes that were made. Any Linking Books similarly shift their destination. In this case, the person must study the Book for 1D4 days, and then pay the XP again, and remake the checks in an attempt to remove their original mistakes. Failing forces the person to have to reattempt the checks once again, while succeeding returns the Book's link back to its original plane.
In any case, it is up to the DM’s discretion on how the changes effect the rest of the world; however, the person who altered the book is rendered immune to the reality-altering effects of their own meddling, and will retain their own memory and possessions, due to their own history having been written in the book. Because of this, the person who writes in the book is forbidden from directly altering their own self.

Overwhelming (not sure if there’s a level above that) Transmutation

{table="The Descriptive Book"]Check DC|Example of changes
30| Instantly teleport everything within 5,000 square feet of a point of your choosing, to a point of your choosing, without error; create up to 5,000 gold pieces in any location you choose,
40| Change one axis of a character's alignment. Resurrect a creature as True Ressurrection, cast a spell you are capable of casting anywhere on the plane. Any effect as wish.
50|Create, destroy, or alter any part of the landscape of the plane. Create a cohort from thin air with alignment, statistics, and levels of your choosing, alter the memories of up to 10 people / level, create any amount of matter in any location, with a cost of up to 50,000 Gold Pieces.[/table]



Any constructive criticisms, suggested alterations, telling me that I've gone against the rules or that it doesn't have enough of a cost for the return, etc. is all welcome.

Poppatomus
2007-06-12, 11:20 PM
very cool. I still think though that it would be helpful to give examples of the kinds of changes that can be wrought. You don't have to do it in the crunch if you don't want. You could do it in a fluff passage where a person that comes upon the book is considering the things they are capable of doing if you prefer, but otherwise it runs the risk of being too abusivley powerful. If you do it in the crunch you could have it affect the DC to make more extensive changes

One example of a crunch version, just off the top of my head:

DC 30: Make a skill a class skillx5, gain a featx5, increase by one level, instantly teleport up to any and all things within 5,000 square feet without error from one point on the plane to another. Create up to 5,000 GP in gold pieces.

DC 40: Change one axis of a character's alignment. Gain a spell like ability of level 7th or lower once per day. resurrect a creature as true ressurection, cast a spell you are capable of casting anywhere on the plane. Any effect as wish. increase one ability score by X

DC 50: Change the results of a historical battle. create a cohort from thin air with statistics of your choosing.

Enlong
2007-06-13, 09:06 AM
Right. Added a few new lines, made a table of possible things that would go into various DCs for the checks. Also, I scrubbed out the idea of "gain one level" as that would make it too powerful. Imagine this, 20th level character finds the book; uses it so much they drop back down to 19th level, then uses it again to gain a level, and undo the effects of paying XP. Wouldn't be fair at all. Already I'm wondering if 10,000 XP is enough of a cost to use the Book.

Now what do you guys think?

(also,GryffonDurime, I apologize for my ignorance in the ways of Myst Lore. I've since looked over it in many sites and have a better understanding. And it's awesome)

Enlong
2007-06-13, 11:09 AM
Eh, new news. Changed another line so that the person who writes can only change the plane, not their own self.

I'd like to thank you all for your help with this. I feel like I'll be able to do very well in the Library contest now.

Enlong
2007-06-15, 04:24 PM
One final question for this. The Linking Books are obviously not artifact-level, so are they a Magic Item, or do they fall under Epic Magic Item status?

Matthew
2007-06-18, 06:16 PM
Hmmn. I would say Magic Item, but I can see a case for an Epic Magic Item.