Help with Multiclassing Bard/Warlock

[supergoji18]

We're about to start Out of the Abyss soon, and I have a character in mind. He is going to be a Variant Human Bard/Warlock with a Hermit background and the optional Deep Delver feature, starting as bard because of better proficiencies and equipment IMO.

I'm having trouble deciding how I want to divide the levels for my character though. I need this build to be as optimal as possible for my character because as much as I hate to admit it, I'm probably going to be doing most of the work for my team (our Druid doesn't abuse wildshape enough, our Fighter just made a wish in a previous adventure that is going to bite him in the ass much more than he thinks it will, our Rogue ascended to the position of the greatest of gods: the DM, and our Wizard is cursed. Not in game, in real life. I haven't seen a single roll from her that was above a 10). So I have a few options here and I need help picking which is best for me. PS: I'd like my character to be more focused on magic than on melee combat.

Bard 1/Fiendish Warlock 19 - Provides the Bard proficiencies while getting almost everything out of the Warlock class. The only thing I miss out on is Eldritch Master, and I'm not too sure if it will even be that useful to begin with.
Lore Bard 3/Fiendish Warlock 17 - Currently I am leaning towards this one. 3 levels of Lore Bard will give me most of the features I want in bard: 2nd level spell slots, Jack of All Trades, Song of Rest, Expertise and the 3 extra proficiencies granted from the Lore College. I'd also have enough levels of Warlock to get 9th level Mystic Arcanum and the only things I would sacrifice are an extra spell known, an extra invocation, a feat and Eldritch master.
Lore Bard 4/Fiendish Warlock 16 - This one sacrifices a Warlock spell slot and 9th level Mystic Arcanum in exchange for another feat and another Bard cantrip and spell slot. Not too sure if I want it because I think by that point I would have all the feats I need. Unless I'm missing something here, I don't think this build is very optimal.
Lore Bard 6/Fiendish Warlock 14 - In exchange for another feat, another Mystic Arcanum, a few known spells and an invocation, I would get the ability to cast 3rd level spells as well as pick 2 extra spells known from any spell list as long as I can actually cast the spell. Additionally, the extra 3 3rd level spell slots will give me a lot more free castings of Fireball. This was the one I was leaning towards before seeing the Bard 3/Warlock 17 one, but the two are very close IMO.

I'd like some opinions on which one would provide me with the most bang for my buck. I'd also like to have some opinions on level progression. I'm thinking Bard for the first few levels, then go full Warlock, and then if I pick a build that has more Bard levels go back to them towards the end.

And one last question: Is it actually worth multi classing Bard and Warlock? So far I see a lot of benefits to it, but I want some second opinions before making my final decision. Thanks everyone and have a good day!

[CantigThimble]

Personally I don't see why warlock should be the main class here. Why not Warlock 2/Lore Bard 18? This way you have full spellcasting from a much wider spell list (including 6 magical secrets) while still having that sweet sweet Hex/Eldritch Blast DPR.

[Tanarii]

How likely are you to actually reach level 20? Or to put it another way, what level to you expect to reach before this group ends play? That'll give us a better idea for recommending builds.

Edit: OotA is supposed to be levels 1-15. Although I haven't played, so I can't comment on how accurate that is.

[SharkForce]

well, I don't think your level 20 build is terribly relevant, but in the event that it is I wouldn't bother with more than 17 levels of warlock. 18-20 in warlock are pretty unimpressive.

but really, it should just be a matter of deciding how many bard levels you want early on, and then go the rest of the way warlock. you're not going to get to 20th level anyways most likely, so don't worry about what the last few levels give you; you probably won't have them either way.

[supergoji18]

Personally I don't see why warlock should be the main class here. Why not Warlock 2/Lore Bard 18? This way you have full spellcasting from a much wider spell list (including 6 magical secrets) while still having that sweet sweet Hex/Eldritch Blast DPR.

RP reasons mostly, and also because I've never played a Warlock before so i'm interested in seeing how it works out mechanically.


How likely are you to actually reach level 20? Or to put it another way, what level to you expect to reach before this group ends play? That'll give us a better idea for recommending builds.

Edit: OotA is supposed to be levels 1-15. Although I haven't played, so I can't comment on how accurate that is.
Sometimes we do side adventures in between break periods of a campaign, so that we have a chance to get some more XP to help against what is to come and to give characters some development at the same time. Maybe not level 20, but level 17 or 18 is likely.


well, I don't think your level 20 build is terribly relevant, but in the event that it is I wouldn't bother with more than 17 levels of warlock. 18-20 in warlock are pretty unimpressive.

but really, it should just be a matter of deciding how many bard levels you want early on, and then go the rest of the way warlock. you're not going to get to 20th level anyways most likely, so don't worry about what the last few levels give you; you probably won't have them either way.I'm mostly interested in the proficiencies and the Cure Wounds spell from the Bard Class, as well as a few of the other utility spells. I figured Bard would be the best class to multiclass with because having the same primary ability as the Warlock and a highly versatile range of abilities is very useful, but I didn't want to put too many levels into it that would hinder my capabilities as a Warlock.

[Tanarii]

Personally:
Of the options listed, I'd go Bard 1. Because you're really going to be missing the spell levels if you go more. A Warlock is effectively a primary caster wanting the max spell level they can get, but one that doesn't stack with other casters for spell slots. So if you go Bard 3 or 4, you're behind 1-2 spell levels all the time. But just one Bard level, you'll get some benefit from being able to use Bard Slots for a few extra Hexes per day, or Warlock slots to up-cast Cure Light Wounds.

Bard 6 might work too, because you'll get a good baseline Bard under your belt before switching to Warlock. You'll probably find you feel like you aren't getting anything from Warlock until it catches up with Bard though. Even at level 12, you'll only be using 1st to 3rd level spells, albeit lots of them.

If it were me, I'd go Warlock until 11, then add the Bard levels, going 1 Bard then 2 Warlock, until I had the Bard levels I wanted.

[snacksmoto]

I agree with CantigThimble, in that I prefer making Lore Bard the main. That being said, what is it about the Fiend Warlock main that attracts your interest? What is your main, pinpoint focus of optimization strength? Is it invocations, patron spell access, spell selection, warlock abilities, other? Also, what kind of Fiend pact are you thinking of taking.

While it is definitely good to plan out to level 20, you've mentioned that you may not get to that level. It might be better to look at directing your planning for the levels you believe you will attain. What could help would be to look over the spell lists and plan out what spells you definitely want, and the ones that you like but can do without. That way you'll know how many "known spells" slots of each class you'll need/want which could help you figure out the class level limitations.

[supergoji18]

Personally:
Of the options listed, I'd go Bard 1. Because you're really going to be missing the spell levels if you go more. A Warlock is effectively a primary caster wanting the max spell level they can get, but one that doesn't stack with other casters for spell slots. So if you go Bard 3 or 4, you're behind 1-2 spell levels all the time. But just one Bard level, you'll get some benefit from being able to use Bard Slots for a few extra Hexes per day, or Warlock slots to up-cast Cure Light Wounds.

Bard 6 might work too, because you'll get a good baseline Bard under your belt before switching to Warlock. You'll probably find you feel like you aren't getting anything from Warlock until it catches up with Bard though. Even at level 12, you'll only be using 1st to 3rd level spells, albeit lots of them.

If it were me, I'd go Warlock until 11, then add the Bard levels, going 1 Bard then 2 Warlock, until I had the Bard levels I wanted.

How does this sound: Bard for first level, warlock till character level 6, 2 more in bard, and the rest warlock?

[Dalebert]

How does this sound: Bard for first level, warlock till character level 6, 2 more in bard, and the rest warlock?

That works. I feel even more strongly than you that levels in lock past 17 are pointless. I would never play a lock past 17.

I will say this. I dipped one level of bard for some versatility with my lock and I was feeling the pain with every level-up. I couldn't help thinking about what I'd be getting as a lock without that level dip. *shrug* It's a very valid choice, of course. That's typical with any opportunity cost you pay. MCing results in versatility at the cost of min-maxiness.

[supergoji18]

That works. I feel even more strongly than you that levels in lock past 17 are pointless. I would never play a lock past 17.

I will say this. I dipped one level of bard for some versatility with my lock and I was feeling the pain with every level-up. I couldn't help thinking about what I'd be getting as a lock without that level dip. *shrug* It's a very valid choice, of course. That's typical with any opportunity cost you pay. MCing results in versatility at the cost of min-maxiness.

The thing is, unless I do take these levels in bard, I have a feeling my party wont make it very far in this adventure. And TBH, I'm ok with missing a few levels of warlock, as long as we survive :smallbiggrin: