Would Like To See Dwarven Battlerager Builds

[Rookwood]

I've looked around and haven't found much on them. I quite like the class, and would like to see how you could squeeze all the min/max possible out of them. So does anyone know how to build a competent Battlerager?

[treecko]

Honestly, just like you would build any other barb. Go dwarf, probably mountain or maybe duegar(if your DM insists on the dwarf only rule). Otherwise, any race that gives str and/or con works. You want GWF, then str and con. Hit things until they die.

EDIT: Ok, as for differences between other barbarians:
You get more attacks, so Str is better than Con and should be maxed 1st
GWM is less important since you get a bonus action attack
You want at least dex 14 to make full use of the armor, although most barbs want it anyway.
Grappling is a decent option, so stuff like the grappler feat and maybe even tavern brawler are good. This is later level, you want str maxed first.
Reckless abandon is decent but still not as tanky as bear totem.
The free dash is weird on a dwarf but makes you mobile at least
Spiked retribution isn't very good.

[HoarsHalberd]

I mean ultimate min-max assuming dwarven restriction is pretty limited. Greatmaul and GWM is good for them. If you end up with an odd high number in a secondary stat go Duergar for the mini-rage of enlarge. Otherwise Mountain Dwarf is obviously the best bet with +2 +2.

[Rookwood]

Okay, so Mountain Dwarf or Duergar, GWF with maul. What about backgrounds, feats, multiclassing, strategies, class ability combos and the like? Stuff other party members can do to help, and how to help other party members yourself?

[treecko]

On backgrounds, you're really just looking for athletics (which is on the barb class skills).

If you want something specific, here you go:

Hitty McStabberson
Mountain dwarf Battlerager, soldier
Skills: Athletics, perception, whatever else you want. Stealth and acrobatics might be nice.
Stats: Starting with standard array: Str 17, Con 15, Dex 14, use the remaining 12, 10, and 8 in whatever mental stats you want.

Feats/Ability Score increases:
4: Great Weapon master/ +1 str +1 con
8: Whichever one you didn't already get
12:+2 str
16: grappler/+2 con
19: lucky/+2 con

Combos:
Rage ---> hit things
A barbarian is not a very technical class to play. You hit things until they die, and rage if they're strong enough to be worth it. At later levels you'll have the option to use your bonus action for a dash or more damage. In general, damage is better. You can grapple well for some control, but ask yourself if it's worth it or if you should just hit them more. Raging does give you advantage on the grapple check, however. Buffs like haste and enlarge are powerful on a barbarian, especially haste. If you have a caster for it, it will turn you into an unstoppable force. Lastly, a barbarian should be on the front lines, soaking and dealing damage. With your massive hit dice, rage damage resistance, and huge melee damage, you should be a large threat to any enemy. Happy axing!

[bid]

Stats: Starting with standard array: Str 17, Con 15, Dex 14, use the remaining 12, 10, and 8 in whatever mental stats you want.

Feats/Ability Score increases:
4: Great Weapon master/ +1 str +1 con
Why not start 16/16 and get Str+2? Do you gain anything from those odd stats?

[treecko]

Why not start 16/16 and get Str+2? Do you gain anything from those odd stats?

Thats better if you're using point buy. I was using standerd array.

[Rookwood]

On backgrounds, you're really just looking for athletics (which is on the barb class skills).

If you want something specific, here you go:

Hitty McStabberson
Mountain dwarf Battlerager, soldier
Skills: Athletics, perception, whatever else you want. Stealth and acrobatics might be nice.
Stats: Starting with standard array: Str 17, Con 15, Dex 14, use the remaining 12, 10, and 8 in whatever mental stats you want.

Feats/Ability Score increases:
4: Great Weapon master/ +1 str +1 con
8: Whichever one you didn't already get
12:+2 str
16: grappler/+2 con
19: lucky/+2 con

Combos:
Rage ---> hit things
A barbarian is not a very technical class to play. You hit things until they die, and rage if they're strong enough to be worth it. At later levels you'll have the option to use your bonus action for a dash or more damage. In general, damage is better. You can grapple well for some control, but ask yourself if it's worth it or if you should just hit them more. Raging does give you advantage on the grapple check, however. Buffs like haste and enlarge are powerful on a barbarian, especially haste. If you have a caster for it, it will turn you into an unstoppable force. Lastly, a barbarian should be on the front lines, soaking and dealing damage. With your massive hit dice, rage damage resistance, and huge melee damage, you should be a large threat to any enemy. Happy axing!

Isn't grappler feat a waste of time? I thought I read somewhere that it was sub-par. And I suspect with GWF I should be using versatile weapon to seamlessly swap from whacking to grappling. However, what are the maths of grappling+one-handed battleaxe vs. straight up two-handed battleaxe with GWF and reckless attack. Maybe a bonus for greataxe as well.

[Finieous]

It seems so bad it's hard to optimize. The bonus action attack is kinda interesting. It's not as good as Polearm Master, because GWM won't work on it, but it's free, at least. Except...you only get it while raging. It does allow you to make a melee weapon attack without taking the Attack action, which is kinda interesting. Like, some odd-duck MC might want to use it with BB/GFB. Except, you only get it while raging and you can't cast spells while raging. A rogue MC can't make effective use of it, because it doesn't have the finesse property.

I guess the most interesting thing about it is that you can use it with a shield. So if you want to make a sword-and-board barbarian, this allows you to offset the huge DPR hit a little. Take Shield Master, and while raging, you can choose to use your bonus action to attack or shove (with advantage on the check), depending on the situation. Your DPR will at least be better than TWFing (since you get Str bonus on the bonus action attack), and you get +2 AC. The refreshable temp hit points help the tankiness, but you only get them when you're Reckless Attacking (not so tanky). Then of course you need a free hand to grapple, so maybe it's a board-and-sword-or-grapple kind of build. The 14th level ability punishes enemies for attacking you, which I suppose means they'll be even less likely to attack you than they otherwise would a sword-and-board barbarian...

I'm just not seeing a whole lot to like, but maybe someone will come up with something.

[HarrisonF]

Depending on the campaign, a Duergar grappling build seems very interesting (using a shield + enlarge to grapple everything you can). If there will be lots of direct sunlight, than probably looking more towards a normal barbarian Mountain Dwarf GWF is better as talked about above.

Duergar build:

Grabby McGrabSon
Duergar Barbarian, Soldier
Skills: Athletics, Stealth and whatever
Stats: Starting with point buy: Str 16, Con 17, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8

Feats:
4: Shield master
8: Tavern Brawler (+1 Con)
12: Str +2
16: Str +2
19: Con +2

This gets you to Str 20/Con 20 for your capstone at level 20.

Tricks:
Enlarge and grapple
Grapple + Shield bash prone
Shield bash as improvised weapon using tavern brawler and then grapple as bonus action


Your DPS will be quite a bit lower than the GWF build, but you will be a bit better at controlling people with grappling.

[Rookwood]

Depending on the campaign, a Duergar grappling build seems very interesting (using a shield + enlarge to grapple everything you can). If there will be lots of direct sunlight, than probably looking more towards a normal barbarian Mountain Dwarf GWF is better as talked about above.

Duergar build:

Grabby McGrabSon
Duergar Barbarian, Soldier
Skills: Athletics, Stealth and whatever
Stats: Starting with point buy: Str 16, Con 17, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8

Feats:
4: Shield master
8: Tavern Brawler (+1 Con)
12: Str +2
16: Str +2
19: Con +2

This gets you to Str 20/Con 20 for your capstone at level 20.

Tricks:
Enlarge and grapple
Grapple + Shield bash prone
Shield bash as improvised weapon using tavern brawler and then grapple as bonus action


Your DPS will be quite a bit lower than the GWF build, but you will be a bit better at controlling people with grappling.

That's pretty cool. Hopefully there'll be a sunlight sensitivity negating object in the next supplement.

[PoeticDwarf]

I've looked around and haven't found much on them. I quite like the class, and would like to see how you could squeeze all the min/max possible out of them. So does anyone know how to build a competent Battlerager?

It is pretty easy, because the bonus action 1d4 attack (like PAM but now without a feat and with 2d6 instead of 1d10 normal attack) you can just go offensive, next to that, just like other barbs.

Level 3 battlerager dips are now very nice for martials, giving reckless attack, stronger attacks, advantage dex saves, resistances, bonus action attack, especially for paladin and ranger this is pretty strong, for fighter still above full fighter in some builds and even for rogues in some builds it could be more than OK

For that other build, better 1d4+5 damage as bonus action than grapple in most situations, and that doesn't cost a feat I'd say, for a grappling barbarian it is pretty neat yeah

[djreynolds]

Now, I know its crazy, but this is where a versatile weapon actually works. Fight with a battle axe in one hand and tavern brawler with your fist for one of your attacks so you can grapple as a bonus action. The key is to find a bonus action where you still have on hand free to grapple with.

I like shield master but you'd have to stow your weapon somehow.

They need a pugilist feat or something. Can you fight with a battle axe with one attack and the other attack punch?

[JackPhoenix]

They need a pugilist feat or something. Can you fight with a battle axe with one attack and the other attack punch?

Yep, with Extra Attack. You can't "dual wield" unarmed strike, though, but that would take your BA, so you wouldn't want to do that anyway, it would block Tavern Brawler

[Satyrnine]

Battlerager needs reactions.
Consider picking up shield mastery. The reaction should make you pretty solid against dex saves. The shove is so close to redundant (can just shove with one of your attacks).

Don't pick up tavern brawler. I know it is tempting. You can just grapple with your action and attack with bonus if you must.

Sentinel and Mageslayer make a lot of sense for all the most obvious reasons.

MC options that come to mind are few,

Barb8 rogue12 gives 6 ASI and a bagful of useful stuff. Evasion is going to synergize well with danger sense. Uncanny dodge synergizes great with temp hp. Athletics expertise is an obvious win. Pick up resilient (dex) and you will be a fantastic trap finder and pretty awesome at dex saves.

Barb8/fighter12 enjoy 6 ASI, 3 attacks. Grab a Greatsword GWF, GWM and blow **** up. Chase crits with champion or use battle master for riposte and precision attack.

Barb6/Druid14 because, idk, how the **** would those temp hp interact? Probably not well.

[GlenSmash!]

...The refreshable temp hit points help the tankiness, but you only get them when you're Reckless Attacking (not so tanky)...

I feel that Reckless attack is great for a tank. One of the best abilities in fact. A tank not only needs survive-ability (which a barbarian of any flavor has in spades), but also incentive to not attack the other members of the party. Reckless Attack gives monsters a big incentive to try to hit the Barb and not the wizard/cleric/rogue etc. Temp HP for using it is just gravy. I would be reckless attacking anytime I was raging. And I would try to be raging a lot.

So since I'm trying to Rage as much as possible, I would go straight class barbarian for the increased number of rages per long rest. Since I'm trying to reckless attack all the time, I would grab GWM and always use the power attack option. Spiked Retribution would be better if it scaled. However, since I'm attacking recklessly I'm sure to get some mileage out of it. The bonus damage to grapples would also be better if it scaled, so I'm no more tempted to grapple than I am with any other barbarian. Which does happen on occasion.

Pick Mountain Dwarf for simple play or Gray Dwarf for more options and drawbacks. Max Str for damage and max Con for more Temp HP per round. Get Dex to 14 for max AC in Spiked Armor.

Enjoy the occasional bonus action attack at full damage from GWM. Otherwise use the 1d4+Str bonus action attack from Battlerager. If there are no monsters within your movement range, bonus action dash to the next group of monsters so you can attack or get damaged and maintain your rage. Otherwise, Play like any Barbarian.

[Finieous]

I feel that Reckless attack is great for a tank.

I completely agree. However, there will be scenarios where stickiness isn't an issue -- you're already being gang-tackled -- and a tanking barbarian would want to turtle up by not Reckless Attacking. If the battlerager does this, he loses the temp hit points, so it's one step forward one step back. Just a situational quibble.

[GlenSmash!]

I completely agree. However, there will be scenarios where stickiness isn't an issue -- you're already being gang-tackled -- and a tanking barbarian would want to turtle up by not Reckless Attacking. If the battlerager does this, he loses the temp hit points, so it's one step forward one step back. Just a situational quibble.

A valid point. If you're being gang tackled you can always rely on that 3 piercing damage each foe will take :smallbiggrin:

[MaxWilson]

I completely agree. However, there will be scenarios where stickiness isn't an issue -- you're already being gang-tackled -- and a tanking barbarian would want to turtle up by not Reckless Attacking. If the battlerager does this, he loses the temp hit points, so it's one step forward one step back. Just a situational quibble.

If you can get a friendly wizard to drop a Fog Cloud or Darkness, you can Reckless Attack without giving enemies advantage to attack you. (Nor do you get advantage to attack them.) Just a thought.

[Corran]

Removed my comment...

[djreynolds]

Yep, with Extra Attack. You can't "dual wield" unarmed strike, though, but that would take your BA, so you wouldn't want to do that anyway, it would block Tavern Brawler

So I could possibly swing a battle axe with one hand, and then punch on my next attack with tavern brawler and then get a bonus action through it to grapple. Or is this constituting duel wielding? Please help clarify this for me. So I could strike with one attack, and then just grapple with my next attack? And forget tavern brawler all together?

Thanks

[Rookwood]

So I could possibly swing a battle axe with one hand, and then punch on my next attack with tavern brawler and then get a bonus action through it to grapple. Or is this constituting duel wielding? Please help clarify this for me. So I could strike with one attack, and then just grapple with my next attack? And forget tavern brawler all together?

Thanks

I think dropping tavern brawler, waiting for extra attack and then using that to grapple would be best. With straight barbarian, point buy and mountain dwarf you can max str and con, have a 14 in dex and have one feat, preferably GWM, my question is, what level should GWM be taken. So using a battleaxe two handed with reckless attack and GWM for the first attack, "dropping" one hand as a free action, grappling with the next attack and then bonus action attack with spiked armor or use this first thing with the bonus dash if needed for the first round. For the second round and following rounds, shove, one handed battleaxe reckless attack, bonus spiked armor attack. Rise and repeat. Also, how do you do average damage calculation math?

[MaxWilson]

I think dropping tavern brawler, waiting for extra attack and then using that to grapple would be best. With straight barbarian, point buy and mountain dwarf you can max str and con, have a 14 in dex and have one feat, preferably GWM, my question is, what level should GWM be taken. So using a battleaxe two handed with reckless attack and GWM for the first attack, "dropping" one hand as a free action, grappling with the next attack and then bonus action attack with spiked armor or use this first thing with the bonus dash if needed for the first round. For the second round and following rounds, shove, one handed battleaxe reckless attack, bonus spiked armor attack. Rise and repeat. Also, how do you do average damage calculation math?

An easy way to do average damage calculation (including crits but not brutal critical) is to go to my die roll calculator here (http://maxwilson.github.io/RollWeb/Roll/) and plug in your target to-hit number and damage:

For instance, if you hit on a 12 or better and do d10+8 on a hit, that would be

avg.12?d10+8

If you have Hex active and advantage, it would become

avg.12a?d10+d6+8

If you have three attacks, it would become

avg.3.12a?d10+d6+8

If you take off the "avg" part it gives you a specific roll instead of the average.

[Rookwood]

An easy way to do average damage calculation (including crits but not brutal critical) is to go to my die roll calculator here (http://maxwilson.github.io/RollWeb/Roll/) and plug in your target to-hit number and damage:

For instance, if you hit on a 12 or better and do d10+8 on a hit, that would be

avg.12?d10+8

If you have Hex active and advantage, it would become

avg.12a?d10+d6+8

If you have three attacks, it would become

avg.3.12a?d10+d6+8

If you take off the "avg" part it gives you a specific roll instead of the average.

Thanks, that's really cool.

[devinlc]

I've looked around and haven't found much on them. I quite like the class, and would like to see how you could squeeze all the min/max possible out of them. So does anyone know how to build a competent Battlerager?

I am playing one in my current game, although I just hit the level to get it, so I can only tell you my intent.

I am playing a Mountain Dwarf. I put my highest stat in Str and second highest in Con (I rolled for stats).

I started with a level of Fighter. I did this for several reasons:

#1: I wanted to start with more gold so I could buy my spiked armour straight away. I did not know the nature of the scenarios the DM would be running and it was a real possibility that by the time I was a 3rd level barbarian I would be in no place to acquire spiked armour. And a battlerager without spiked armour is just a gimped barbarian.

#2: I wanted second wind because at lower levels it is awesome, and that's when you need it the most.

#3: Primarily I wanted the Great Weapon Fighting technique because when you roll a d12 you really need it (BTW, I haven't figured out if the technique is better statistically with a greatsword and 2d6 since in that case you can reroll each die!).

I then went 3 levels of barbarian to get into the battlerager class. I took Great Weapon Mastery as my 4th level feat (BTW, my DM rightfully bans applying Polearm Mastery and GWM at the same time, so that's why I am not using a polearm).

My intent is to get 2 more levels of fighter and to take Champion. Why?

Because Action Surge is decent, but more importantly because there is a lot of critical synergy in this build. GWM gives you a bonus attack every time your critical. And brutal critical, as a barbarian, gets you extra dice of damage on a crit. So I wanted to double my crit chances.

After that. battlerager all the way.

End build will be a Mountain Dwarf Battlerager 17/Champion 3.

There is an inherent tension between Battlerager and the Great Weapon Fighting technique in that both vie for your bonus slot. However, the battlerager bonus attack only works while raging, and the GWF bonus attack only happens when you crit or down a foe. Since the bonus axe attack is almost always desirable over the spiked attack, I attack with the axe first, see if I get a bonus attack with it, and if not and I am raging pop the spiked attack.

The Reckless Attack feature pairs very nicely with the GWM power attack feature, since the bonus for advantage negates some or all of the GWM penalty (depending on the distribution curve), and with a Bless spell up and running I can pretty much power attack at will.

[djreynolds]

So are 5th level yet, and how is your grappling working out? Are basically just using an attack to grapple and either strike first or after. And say you took the grappler feat, which gives you advantage on attacks are you just using a heavy weapon one handed at disadvantage, which is a wash with advantage from the grappler feat. A battle axe does work with GWS when wielded two handed.

I just want to see what pitfalls you've encountered. And since you are multiclassing anyhow, would you grab a level of rogue for expertise in athletics?