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Dimers
2015-12-29, 11:05 PM
I'm building a skill-oriented character. Total levels will be rogue 1, Knowledge cleric 2, ranger 2 and lore bard 15. (Yes, it'll be very MAD.) I expect my proficient saves to be Dexterity, Wisdom and Charisma, and my AC should be around 18-20 plus magic for most of the game. My best stat will be Charisma, and it'll probably sit at 16 until I reach 17th level.

I can pick up two non-bard spells at 10th, 15th and 19th levels, when I can cast spells of level 4, 7 and 9. I can prep two, three or four cleric spells of whatever level I want each day, and I always have command from my Domain. I also learn two 1st-level ranger spells and never get to change them.

What are the best bard spells -- and six of the best non-bard spells -- for combat with a less-than-stellar Charisma?

SharkForce
2015-12-29, 11:11 PM
you only get level 1 cleric spells. the multiclassing rules are abundantly clear on that.

SpawnOfMorbo
2015-12-29, 11:17 PM
you only get level 1 cleric spells. the multiclassing rules are abundantly clear on that.

I just wanted to quote this for clarity and maybe people will read it a second time.

Dimers
2015-12-29, 11:20 PM
you only get level 1 cleric spells. the multiclassing rules are abundantly clear on that.

Hmm. Yup, I see that now. That's fair, sadly for me. Puts more pressure on those high-level Magical Secrets picks.

Felvion
2015-12-30, 05:32 AM
Excuse me for asking something almost irrelevant to your subject but is there a specific reason for all these small dips apart from proficiencies?
I think it's a bit of overkill and if you plan on playing this character 1-20 you'll have a hard time trying to squeeze all these dips in, considering it's a full spellcaster build. Even rogue1/bard19 would get you lots of proficiencies and expertise. Jack of all Trades should be enough to take care of the rest skills. This way you can rearrange your attributes better (easiest multiclassing) and you also have two ASIs more! Increased stats and Jack of all trades may give you higher bonuses in total than just picking a few more proficiencies which makes me question those 4 levels "spent" in cleric/ranger. On the other hand, i see they do offer a lot of minor stuff that can make a character more fun to play (4 more languages, a fighting style, few spells etc) but it's up to you to call if it's worth it or not.
That said, i admit i'm not an expert on giving Magical Secrets advice but i'm pretty sure Find familiar and/or Find steed are really nice and often underestimated options.

Dimers
2015-12-30, 10:05 AM
The key is actually Expertise and the equivalent, not mere proficiency. Knowledge cleric 1, rogue 1 and high levels in bard give eight total Expertises, and ranger does the same thing for all relevant rolls in its favored terrain (as well as giving advantage on certain skill rolls regarding favored enemy). Not that I think I'd need anything near that much skill in a team game -- but it's a fun exercise!

Ranger 1 adds martial weapon proficiency in addition to its skill benefits, and it's quite appropriate for a highly skilled person to know their way around weaponry. And if I take one level in ranger, a second level gives me a fighting style without hurting my spell progression more. Likewise, knowledge cleric 2 continues spell progression while providing the last bit of skill silliness, the "floating" proficiency in any skill or tool via Channel.

Thanks for the mention of Find Familiar and Find Steed. I was looking at Steed last night but didn't have time to review the rules on mounted combat. I'm in a 3.5 PbP game where one guy is using a horse to great advantage.