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Gastronomie
2015-12-30, 05:45 AM
Well, so I was browsing through the Recruitment section the other day and came across a particular thread in which the DM said all the PCs will have "Maximum HP".
By Maximum HP, he means that, for instance, a Barbarian who gained a level would always get a "12+CON mod" addition to his HP, instead of "1d12+CON mod".

I found this idea interesting, especially since I felt it was difficult for me to create fights with multiple strong enemies with the original HP rules (of course that mainly derives from how I'm new to the game, and the pros'll still have ways to do that without this rule, but anyways).
When I DM in the future, I'm thinking of implimenting it, but before that, wanted to ask these forums if it's a good idea or not.

A Level 5 Wizard (16 CON) would normally have 35 HP average.
A Level 5 Wizard (16 CON) under this rule would have 45 HP (+10).

A Level 5 Barbarian (16 CON) would normally have 53 HP average.
A Level 5 Barbarian (16 CON) under this rule would have 75 HP (+22).

A Level 15 Wizard (16 CON) would normally have 100 HP average.
A Level 15 Wizard (16 CON) under this rule would have 135 HP (+35).

A Level 15 Barbarian (16 CON) would normally have 148 HP average.
A Level 15 Barbarian (16 CON) under this rule would have 225 HP (+77).

Mechanically speaking, with this rule in effect, the highest HP you can get using non-magical methods is a Level 20 Barbarian with CON 24 (Primal Champion).
This guy has 380 HP.
Whether that's "fun" or "terrible", prolly depends on perspective, but I myself am leaning towards the former.

The pros of this rule:
-The characters are harder to die, which is generally beginner-friendly
-It's easier to pitch enemies which inflict massive damage against low-level adventurers (such as a Young Dragon, whose breath could be potentially lethal against low-level d6 characters)
-The DM can throw in more monsters than normal and not have to fear of fatal critical chains

The cons:
-This would seem outrageous to anyone who wants a gritty feel
-If the DM doesn't make the fights tougher, it'll be way too easy for the adventurers
-I dunno, I'm asking this here because I'm unsure about this idea's pros and cons anyway. I can't think up any other ideas why this'll be a bad idea, but the people here prolly have some.

What'd you guys reckon on this idea? Have any of you guys used it? If so, how did it work out?






I have created over a thousand blades
What’s Your Weapon of Choice?
Part 1: Longsword

http://66.media.tumblr.com/bbeebefa6f00fc80a3807703f23d0327/tumblr_nwrae13a5H1smzgcuo1_500.gif
Your weapon defines your combat style. (Image by Ufotable)

As already mentioned in “Races and Stats”, the build of a Birthblade is defined by his weapon. You could call these the three “Sub-Classes” of Birthblades: Longsword, Greatsword, and Rapier. Depending on your weapon, the ratings of certain Oaths and Origins will start to change. I intend to make those points clear by sorting the guide in this way.

Each explanation of a “Sub-Class” will be divided into the following parts:

Core Concept
Core Abilities
Paladin Oath Evaluation
Sorcerer Origin Evaluation
Level Progression

Due to the limitation on the number of words per post, I will divide this section into three posts, and talk only about the Longsword in this one.

NOTE - Technically, damage-wise, you can replace a Longsword with a Battleaxe, Flail, Morningstar, War Pick, Warhammer, or hell, even a Rapier, and likewise, you can replace a Greatsword with a Maul - but I anyways named these weapons after the options I considered to be “default”.
Also, the UA Feat “Blade Mastery” makes using swords generally the better option.


Longsword Birthblade
IMO this is the default option for Birthblades. Not that it’s absolutely superior to the other Sub-Classes, just that it’s really well done and all-around well balanced. You have both great defenses and great offense, not to mention all the versatility via spells and the healing from being a Paladin, and you’ll be greatly welcome in virtually any adventuring team.

Core Concept
Let’s first look at the two main strengths of the Longsword Birthblade, which are “Superb Defenses” and having “Less Feat Dependency (Higher CHA)”. After that, we’ll talk a bit about the “attack method” of choice, which is either “Extra Attack” or “Green-Flame/Booming Blade”.

Superb Defenses
The main thing about Longsword Birthblades is their high defense. Your offense capabilities may not match that of a Greatsword build, but you’re more tanky than any other Birthblade sub-class in terms of both AC and Saving Throws, making you the ultimate All-Rounder.

First, about AC: As with all Sword and Board builds, having a shield equipped to you for +2 AC is amazing for any melee character. Being tanky is one of the core responsibilities of a frontline warrior, and with your HP being considerably lower than the average Fighter, Birthblades need an option to reinforce their defenses. The easiest way to get tankier is to hold a shield - and thus, it can be said that S&B and Birthblades are indeed synergetic from the start.

With Plate Armor, the Defense Fighting Style, and a Shield, your AC becomes 18+2+1=21. With the Shield spell (+5 AC) that becomes 26, even better than the Tarrasque. At higher levels, with spells like Greater Invisibility, disadvantage on all attacks meant for you makes you a truly terrifying opponent to face (Shadow Sorcs also get the same benefit from Darkness, at the price of possibly hindering your friends’ actions, and Blur also allows this with a level 2 spell). Let’s see how effective this is by actually crunching numbers.

With 21 AC:
Goblins (CR 1/4) can hit you only 20% of the time.
A Red Dragon Wyrmling (CR 4) can hit you only 30% of the time.
A Young Red Dragon (CR 10) can hit you only 50% of the time.
An Adult Red Dragon (CR 17) can hit you 70% of the time.

With 21 AC and disadvantage:
Goblins (CR 1/4) can hit you only 4% of the time.
A Red Dragon Wyrmling (CR 4) can hit you only 9% of the time.
A Young Red Dragon (CR 10) can hit you only 25% of the time.
An Adult Red Dragon (CR 17) can hit you only 49% of the time.

With 26 AC:
Goblins (CR 1/4) can hit you only 5% of the time (Critical only).
A Red Dragon Wyrmling (CR 4) can hit you only 5% of the time (Critical only).
A Young Red Dragon (CR 10) can hit you only 25% of the time.
An Adult Red Dragon (CR 17) can hit you only 45% of the time.

With 26 AC and disadvantage:
Goblins (CR 1/4) can hit you only 0.25% of the time (Two Criticals in a row only).
A Red Dragon Wyrmling (CR 4) can hit you only 0.25% of the time (Two Criticals in a row only).
A Young Red Dragon (CR 10) can hit you only 6.25% of the time.
An Adult Red Dragon (CR 17) can hit you only 20.25% of the time.
...That’s how difficult it is to hit you.

Second, since you don’t depend on STR as much as Greatsword builds, the chances open up for you to invest more in CHA (more mentioning of this in the next section, “Less Feat Dependency”). This also reads “Better Saving Throws”, with your ever-so-awesome Aura of Protection.

D&D 5e is designed so that the saving throw DCs of the monsters’ abilities rise and rise with higher CR, but the saving throw bonuses of the PCs generally don’t get upgraded (only the bonuses for the stats you’re investing in and/or have saving throw proficiencies with can grow). While a level 1 Sorcerer and a level 20 Sorcerer will most likely both equally suck at WIS saves, the WIS save DCs of the monsters will rise and rise, from the DC 10 of the CR 2 Gibbering Mouther to the DC 21 of the CR 24 Ancient Red Dragon.

Most characters are good at only one or two types of saves. You’re good at them all, and boosting your CHA improves ALL your Saving Throws. Both in terms of AC and saves, your defenses are hell amazing. The only class that has better saving throws than you is the Monk with Diamond Soul, but unlike him, you can bestow your ability to your friends around you as well.

In addition to aforementioned benefits, Oath of the Ancients level 7 gives you resistance to spell damage, improving your tankiness even further. Oath of the Crown and Oathbreaker give you good battlefield control options as well, with their excellent Channel Divinity powers.

Less Feat Dependency (Higher CHA)
GWM is a Feat tax (well, to be fair, it’s also one that’s worth taking), and they also need to take either Resilient or War Caster. Compared to this, the only Feat S&Bs have to take is War Caster, which opens up possibilities for all sorts of ASIs and customizing via extra Feats.

Overall, Longsword Birthblades have the most options possible, both during character creation and during combat.

BTW, another thing worth mentioning is that you don’t need to necessarily have high STR to make a Longsword build work, unlike how GWMs will invest heavily in there. Longsword Birthblades should generally value CHA more than the Greatsword build does. If you went with a Race that gives you +2 STR, you should first pump STR to 18, but otherwise, it will generally be actually better to first pump your CHA, possibly even to 20, before going on to STR. This does depend on your playstyle and spell selection, but opens up a lot of possibilities by making you a more effective caster. And don’t forget Aura of Protection.

Remember that no matter how good your STR is, your offense capabilities can never match that of a well-built Greatsword Birthblade. Thus, pumping your Channel Divinity/spell save DC and saving throw bonuses via Aura of Protection is one good way to differentiate yourself.

Extra Attack V.S. SCAG Sword Cantrips
Now, from here, let’t move on to the offense issue. Longsword’s damage die of 1d8 is okay. It’s not particularly interesting, but not bad either.

Here is where stuff get interesting, and builds start to differentiate themselves. If you’re interesting in dealing more damage, taking Dueling instead of Defense is a not-bad option, but do keep in mind that at high levels (level 11 and higher), Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade can be a possibly more damaging option than Extra Attack. This is especially evident with Draconic Bloodline Origin + Green-Flame Blade. On the other hand, if you are an Oathbreaker with Aura of Hate, Extra Attack can be more beneficial for you, and thus Dueling will become a more yummy, synergetic option. At the same time you can also say that Draconic Bloodline and Oathbreaker are sorta anti-synergetic at what they do (only “sorta”, but still).

...Stuff like that. Depending on your Oath and Origin, certain options may become stronger or weaker.

So, it can be said that, one thing to keep in mind when going S&B is - “What is your main attack option? Extra Attack or the SCAG Blade Cantrips?”

Extra Attack has a higher chance of hitting at least once per turn, and rarely ends his turn without doing anything. The SCAG Blade Cantrips are only once per turn with their attacks, so if you miss you might end your turn doing nothing, but depending on the level it has better damage than Extra Attack, and Booming Blade can also be Twinned for a semi-Extra Attack (it does cost a Sorcery Point, and can’t choose the same target for both attacks, though).

There’s no “right” or “wrong” option here. Choose whichever attack option you think is more cool. Your choice of Oath and Origin should be, at least to some extent, based on that decision.
Core Abilities
Here I will talk about abilities that are especially useful for the Longsword Birthblade. However, it should be noted that due to how “orthodox” and “simple” the Longsword build is, there are not many abilities that are especially or uniquely strong for Longsword builds.

Thus, there is honestly not that much to talk in here. If anything, we will talk about what options are especially strong with S&B - especially the CHA based options.

Paladin
Fighting Style: Take either Dueling (Extra Attack builds) or Defense (SCAG Blade builds). Protection does help your job as a tank, but is mediocre in how it uses up your Reaction. Your Reaction should be used for Booming Blade+War Caster (massive damage), or for the Shield spell.
Aura of Protection: Taking this requires 6-level progression in Paladin, despite how the levels 4 and 5 give you not much. However, this invest in Paladin is most definitely worth it.
The label does not lie, because Aura of Protection really protects you and your friends. This ability is insanely powerful for anyone, but it works better for STR S&B than it does for GWM or DEX S&B, because with STR S&B you can invest more heavily in CHA.

Sorcerer
Metamagic: Do keep in mind that you get only two options, and the options don’t increase till Sorcerer level 10. Thus you should choose these wisely. First, Quickened Spell is mandatory, so that’s that. Then you should go for either Heightened Spell (when you really want to kill someone) or Twinned Spell (use on stuff like Polymorph, Haste, or Booming Blade*). If you’re going level 9 Paladin, Extended Spell is another good option for the Aura of Vitality combo.
I generally would say Twinned Spell is the better option, since your DC is going to be already quite high with a lot of CHA investment.
Shield: I’m talking about the Level 1 spell.. It’s actually more of a class ability than a spell.
*NOTE-Some rulings by the creators say Green-Flame Blade cannot be twinned since it must choose two targets. However, as with all rulings, this depends on the DM, so ask beforehand.
Paladin Oath Evaluation

Oath of Devotion
This option is not bad, but not especially good either. Taking a look at what it has:
Oath Spells: A mixed bag of situational abilities that’s anyways extremely useful in how they’re free to take. All the Oath Spells options are good for you, considering how Sorcerers get so little spell selection, and you desperately need versatility .
Channel Divinity: Sacred Weapon: It increases your hit bonus and looks at your high CHA! Sadly it also uses an action. If you can activate it before combat it’s good, but even in that case this is more of a GWM ability than a S&B one.
Channel Divinity: Turn the Unholy: Too situational to be given an actual rating. It is certainly not bad when it can be used, though.
Aura of Devotion: Can’t be Charmed. Not “advantage”, you can’t be charmed. And sure it’s a nice ability, but it also sorta overlaps with racial abilities of an Elf or Half-Elf, and it’s also situational. A majority of Charming effects look at WIS, and with proficiency in WIS saves and Aura of Protection, chances are you’re gonna succeed on the save either way. If you’re going Devotion, level 6 is probably enough (unless you’re going level 9 for level 3 spells).

Oath of the Ancients
WARNING: This rating specifically refers to when you go 7 levels in Paladin instead of 6. If you plan on going only Paladin 6, DO NOT CHOOSE THIS OATH.
Oath Spells: Constantly having Misty Step prepared is good. Speak With Animals is also useful for when you need it in RP situations. Ensnaring Strike is not something you will be constantly using, but it’s a very good control spell that doesn’t use up your action and is great when you need it. “Restrained” is quite a menacing condition.
Channel Divinity: Nature’s Wrath: It’s not that it’s necessarily bad, it’s that Ensnaring Strike is generally the better option. At least this one doesn’t require concentration. It’s not bad when it can be pulled off, so better than nothing.
Channel Divinity: Turn the Faithless: Same as Turn the Unholy - too situational to be given an actual rating, but certainly not bad when it can be used.
Aura of Warding: The selling point of this Oath. Now, sadly, not a good number of the monsters in the MM have spellcasting, and even if they have magical powers, this ability doesn’t work on magical damage that doesn’t come from spells (like a dragon’s breath weapon or a Mind Flayer’s Mind Blast). It’s heavily campaign/DM dependent, and not as amazing as it seems in paper.
However, even with that said, it’s still good. Very good, and can save your neck (and the necks of your friends) when needed, especially given how enemy spells tend to deal extremely high damage. Besides, anything that improves your capacities as a tank is a good ability to have.

Oath of Vengeance
Clearly this oath is designed to be an offense build, and a good one at that too. It’s a very strong Oath, but not one that synergizes well with S&B Birthblades, since you want more versatility than extra offense.
Oath Spells: This doesn’t give you much extra spell options when you compare it to the Sorcerer spell list. What it does is freeing up Sorcerer spell options and allowing you to choose more Sorcerer spells. That’s a pretty good thing.
Channel Divinity: Abjure Enemy: Not bad as means to keep someone from escaping or running towards the backrow casters. It’s easy to forget, but unlike you, most casters are fragile.
Channel Divinity: Vow of Enmity: It’s a Bonus Action, and doesn’t require a save either. Pretty nice, I reckon, but as already mentioned, it’s not your ideal ability. Does probably deserve a Blue rating for when you need it though, since it’s only a Bonus Action.
Relentless Avenger: Not bad. Not something worth the extra Paladin level either.

Oath of the Crown (SCAG)
This oath is often overlooked, but IMO it’s actually one of the, if not the best Oath(s) for a S&B Birthblade in how it offers you a lot of extra options and increases your versatility. It’s also the Oath that’s best suited for tanking, and synergizes well with the core concept of S&B.
Probably very close to Sky Blue, and does become Sky Blue for those who want to go Paladin 9, due to the yummy level 3 spells in its Oath Spell list.
Oath Spells: Blue for builds that go Paladin more than 9 levels due to Spirit Guardians, Black for builds that go only 6 or 7. Not a bad list, but not as good as the other ones.
Channel Divinity: Champion Challenge: Is it just me, or does this not use up an Action, or even a Bonus Action? I mean, all the other Channel Divinity abilities state “As an action...” or “As a bonus action...” but this one doesn’t. In which case this is Sky Blue as an ability that protects all your backrow friends. And remember how you have amazing AC? Feel free to take on the entire frontline by yourself.
Careful Spell is very synergetic with this ability. Drop a Web (normally Blue, but Sky Blue for you) or Hypnotic Pattern on the entire area (including yourself) without fear of failing the save.
Channel Divinity: Turn the Tide: A situational version of Mass Healing Word is better than it seems on first glance. Being able to restore the consciousness of several friends at a time is amazing, and is truly something you can call “Turning the Tides”. The way it’s written is the same as spells like Healing Word, so pretty sure you can include yourself in the targets you heal, but you should ask your DM beforehand about those rulings at your table.
Divine Allegiance: Using up your reaction is generally something you want to keep away from, and the 5 feet radius makes it even worse. Could be worth using if the friend next to you is going to faint, in which case this is a good use of your reaction, but generally, I would stop at Paladin 6.

Oathbreaker (DMG)
This Oath (or rather, the state of “Breaking an Oath”) specifically requires DM permission in how many associated characters will be evil. Some DMs may also allow this to be re-fluffed to be some sort of a really Dark Hero-ish or Fanatic Cultist-ish “Oath”, depending on the setting (in a particular game I’m joining, my character - who derives her Paladin powers from the Goddess of Death - is scheduled to become an “Oathbreaker” when she hits Paladin level 3). Whatever the case, it’s part of player manners to be cooperative to the team, so do keep that in mind, even when playing an Evil character.
Anyhow, the reason this Oath is Blue is because a lot of its abilities (all of them very strong!) rely on CHA. S&B Builds can get higher CHA than GWM builds, so it’s obvious that this Oath is a really good option for S&B Birthblades in general.
Whether to go Oathbreaker 7 or not is up to you. It does increase your damage by 3 or 4 per turn (double that with Extra Attack), but you’ll lag behind another level in spellcasting, and it also robs you of the level 14 Sorcerer ability (if you’ll actually ever get there, that is). If you want your build to go Extra Attack - like for instance, if you picked up a Flame Tongue or something during Paladin progression - you should probably go to Oathbreaker 7 since you want to be good at Extra Attacks, but otherwise, it’s not a requirement at all. Both the stuff you gain and the stuff you lose are quite heavy.
Oathbreaker Spells: Every class needs something to balance itself out, and in the Oathbreaker’s case that appeared in its Spell List. The spells in here are not necessarily bad, but not the sort of stuff you will be using frequently either. Very situational and overall meh.
Channel Divinity: Control Undead: It’s situational, but also as broken as hell when it goes off. Sky Blue in the right campaign.
Channel Divinity: Dreadful Aspect: The selling point of Oathbreakers in Birthblade builds. The super-superb part of this ability is that the targets can’t re-attempt saves unless they get over 30 feet away from the Oathbreaker - there is no other way to escape the Frightened condition bestowed by this ability. But if you’ve already locked the targets into melee range, the targets must risk being hit by opportunity attacks to get over 30 feet away from you. And when that’s triggered, you use War Caster+Booming Blade to zap them to a crisp. Combine with Tunnel Fighter to do this to everybody. This combination is absolutely devastating.
If you want to troll the hell out of your enemies, combine with Wall of Fire - encircle your enemies with the wall, and they are forced to fight you while they’re constantly afraid of you. Either that, or they need to jump through a burning wall.
Aura of Hate: Your good CHA score now boosts not only your spellcasting and saves, but also your weapon damage. Way to go, I mean, like, there’s now nothing you can’t do with your dazzling sexiness. For reasons mentioned, it isn’t for everybody, especially since it doesn’t synergize well with GFB and BB, but if you need it it’ll be good. If your party includes a Necromancer, this ability becomes awesome beyond belief.
This ability can become detrimental for you if you face Fiends or Undead, but by RAW Divine Smite somehow still works with Oathbreakers (I really think they should change the damage type to Necrotic and change the preferred targets to other monster-types for Oathbreakers, but anyways), so you can Smite them harder to kill them first before they kill you (and don’t forget that powerful undead can become best friends with Control Undead). That, or you can utilize your high CHA and spellcasting capabilities to simply slink back into the backrow and fling Fireballs until your evil friends have all been extinguished from the battlefield.
Sorcerer Origin Evaluation

Draconic Bloodline
Gives you extra tanking and improves your damage. It’s a really solid choice.
Draconic Ancestor: Extremely campaign-dependent but can be useful in certain situations.
Draconic Resilience: Your job is to be a tank. This ability makes you a better tank. The part about not needing Mage Armor, you can really just skip over, because your DEX is going to be either 8 or 10.
Elemental Affinity: And now here’s what’s really amazing. The obvious choice is Fire, improving the damage of Green-Flame Blade as well as amazing AoE spells such as Fireball.
There has been some rulings that this ability can work only once per spell, so like for instance, it improves the damage of only one of the rays created by Scorching Ray, and so on. By the same logic, if you’re to abide by these rulings, you need to choose which to buff, Green-Flame Blade’s “main slash” or the “leaping fire”. However, there is a lot of fan debate over whether this ruling is to be followed or not. When it comes to ruling interpretation, the power level goes like Sage Advice/Twitter Rulings < Official Printed Material <<<<< DM judgment, so ask your DM beforehand about how he will rule this.
Dragon Wings: So like, you can fly. Isn’t that fascinating? Do keep in mind that you can never gain this benefit if you go Paladin 7 or higher, though.

Wild Magic
In terms of how entertaining it is as a class, Wild Magic Sorcerer is Sky Blue. Sadly, that isn’t really the main purpose of this guide.
The powers of this class largely depend on how often your DM is willing to activate Tides of Chaos. Depending on the DM, this can become possibly upgraded to Blue, but in general it has little to synergize with S&B and is overall a mediocre option in terms of optimization. However, it is better than most people assume on first glance.
This option and Oath of the Ancients mesh together rather uniquely and humorously. Even if you Fireball yourself, you will be able to mitigate the damage. That said, this sort of thing rarely happens, so it’s not like it’s a really big deal. It will be fun when it goes off though.
Wild Magic Surge: Entertainment, which at times come with a price. It’s really fun and a good class, but not exactly the sort you look for in optimization.
Tides of Chaos: Advantage on anything, once per short rest! Which is good for both offense and defense, and also recharges whenever the DM “feels like it”. This is largely dependent on the DM, but with the right DM, can be abused to hell.
Bend Luck: It’s like Bardic Inspiration, except you don’t need to give it beforehand. 1d4 might not seem like a large amount, but it’s very versatile in both boosting your friends and weakening your enemies. Using up your Reaction is what sorta hurts, hence the Blue rating, but still an actually pretty good ability.
Controlled Chaos: Avoid turning into a potted plant by accident. That’s pretty nice.

Storm Sorcery (SCAG)
This is a wonderful Sorcerous Origin option that is both thematic and powerful. Sadly, it doesn’t synergize well with Birthblades.
Wind Speaker: Great, so now you can speak with that raging Elemental that’s coming after the party to kill you! Better than nothing, but this ability will be important once in every, like, several hundred sessions (unless your DM is a good, creative DM who knows his job well, and specifically creates moments where this ability can be useful).
Tempestuous Magic: Your spells are generally going to be cast using Bonus Actions, and even if it’s cast with an Action, you don’t need to run away from your opponents.
Heart of the Storm: This ability is more important for Birthblades than it is for pure Sorcerers in how you’re on the frontlines, and having a lot of enemies within 10 feet of you is a good thing, not a bad thing. Sadly, there are not many spells that deal Thunder or Lightning damage, and even when there are, dealing damage using spells is the least of your priorities.
Storm Guide: This is one of those abilities that can become Sky Blue with the right situations but is otherwise too, and I mean too situational to be considered an actual class ability. If your campaign is going to be about a bunch of adventuring pirates, your party needs a guy with this ability, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be you, given how almost nothing this Origin offers is beneficial for a Birthblade.
Storm’s Fury: It’s like you have an unlimited supply of Hellish Rebuke, except with a less resisted damage type. Which is good. It also uses up your reaction, and thus robs you of opportunity-Booming-Blading and Shielding. Which is meh. Overall not bad, I mean, it’s still useful, but not something to get really excited over either.

Favored Soul (UA)
It’s a running joke how WotC introduced a Sorcerer Origin with an expanded spell list in the exact same guide in which they specifically stated that the spell list of the Sorcerer is heavily restricted on purpose. However, despite how it’s a powerful Sorcerer Origin, it’s not that much of an option for Birthblades.
This is, for one, because the level 1 and 6 abilities of the Favored Soul are complete wastes for Birthblades.
And for another, a majority of the spells you can get from the Cleric Domains are already in the Paladin spell list.
If you’re going to go Favored Soul, the reason for that should be because you really want a particular spell on your list, or because you think having more selection of Sorcerer spells is more important than the level 1 and 6 abilities of the Sorcerer Origins. It’s difficult to justify, and probably not optimized, but who knows? Maybe you could find an insane combo or something.
Chosen of the Gods: Read this as “bit more spell versatility”. Not that it makes you as versatile as you hope. Let’s look at the Domain candidates.
Knowledge prominently gives us Command, Suggestion, Arcane Eye and Scrying. Not bad, but more of out-of-combat stuff than in-combat. Having Suggestion constantly ready gives us the freedom to take 1 extra Sorcerer spell. Not bad. Not the sort of stuff you expect from being a “Chosen of the Gods” either.
Life has honestly not much to give us, which is not a surprise, since all the important spells are already on the Paladin list, and we don’t need that many Paladin spells to make a strong Birthblade.
Light is not bad, freeing up Sorcerer spell selection with Fireball and Wall of Fire. It also has Faerie Fire and Scrying, which are good spells.
Nature is a bag of situational spells that is not really that bad, but not the sort of stuff you would trade the level 1 and 6 abilities of the other Origins for.
Tempest has nothing special about it.
Trickery is an actually pretty good list, and is probably the best choice, since it has Mirror Image, Dispel Magic, Polymorph and Dominate Person, allowing you to choose a lot more Sorcerer spells.
War has spells like Spiritual Weapon, Magic Weapon, Spirit Guardians, and Hold Monster, so it’s an okay choice.
Death (DMG) is honestly bad.
Arcana (SCAG) is likewise meh.
Bonus Proficiencies: It’s not really a “bonus” proficiency when you already have it.
Extra Attack: It’s not really an “extra” attack when you already have it.
Divine Wings: Same as the Draconic Bloodline ability.

Shadow (UA)
Also known as the Emo Sorcerer. The “Quirks” list included in the UA article is really fascinating, and IMO a list that should be added to any new supplements WotC publishes, but that’s not really relevant to this guide. What is relevant to this guide is that Shadow Sorcerers are a pretty strong - if not overpowered - choice of Origin that can both tank and attack nicely.
Eyes of the Dark: At level 1 it’s a Darkvision ability. From level 2 it allows you to cast an uber-empowered version of an extremely versatile Level 2 spell at the cost of 1 Sorcery Point, which is honestly nuts. It’s a badly designed ability, so you might want to ask your DM beforehand if it’s really okay to use this. My suggestion is to make it cost 2 Sorcery Points, in my games. And even then, it’s still strong.
This ability works most with GWM, but advantage on all your attacks, disadvantage on all your enemies’ attacks, and not getting targeted by enemy spells is so yummy an ability that basically anyone can benefit from it.
Strength of the Grave: Emergency button for when you’re going to faint. Which is very useful for a tank like you.
Hound of Ill Omen: Spending 3 Sorcery Points as a Bonus Action to summon forth a CR 1 creature that also bestows an enemy disadvantage on the saving throws of your spells. While a bit costly, this is a strictly better version of Heightened Spell. And Heightened Spell was already good...
Shadow Walk: While a bit situational, bonus action teleport of 120 feet is an extremely juicy ability for a frontline martial character who constantly wants to be in melee range of someone in the enemy team. Use this to teleport next to the enemy caster while you’ve got Darkness on your weapon, and the enemy becomes blinded, becoming unable to cast Spells that target. Hell amazing, if not broken. IMO this should have a cost, like 1 or 2 Sorcery Points or something.
Level Progression

Since this is a mutliclass build, there are certain levels at which your build may not work as good as it is supposed to. To minimize that problem, I’ve created this section that will hopefully be helpful for those who wish to go Paladin/Sorcerer.

The first thing to mention is that you need War Caster as quickly as possible, since otherwise, unless your DM is willing with component issues (I honestly don’t care much as a DM, but some people do), you cannot cast a majority of your spells while holding both a Longsword and a Shield. Since Variant Human does not net you War Caster (assuming you start Paladin), going to Paladin 4 and getting War Caster as soon as possible is a must.

Thus, the real question here will be - “After Paladin 4, do you keep on going Paladin or do you go Sorcerer?”

1. Go Paladin 6 or 7, and go Sorc all the way from there
This is for those who want to prioritize Extra Attack and/or get Aura of Protection as fast as possible. It’s also a really solid choice, since Paladins are known to be top-tier classes at low levels, and you’ll probably have absolutely no problem with this path, aside from the fact it’s mostly a normal Paladin till level 7 or 8 and higher.
Oathbreakers are especially suited for this progression path, being good Extra Attackers and having an awesome level 7 ability. But really, if in doubt, this might be actually the most safe choice. Especially given how your CHA bonus is going to be good.

2. Go Paladin 4, then to Sorc 3, then to Paladin again to 6 or 7, and go back to Sorcerer
“If you’re gonna go that many levels first in Paladin, why not just straight jump to Extra Attack and Aura of Protection!?”
The answer is because you want the Sorcerer spells quick for extra protection - which can be especially said for Crown Paladins, with their ability to get all the enemies near you and never leave your side. Going Paladin 4 first gives you War Caster, which is the reason you want to go Paladin 4 as fast as possible.
However, while losing Extra Attack is honestly not that much of a problem (with the SCAG Blade Cantrips being so powerful), losing Aura of Protection for several levels is very painful indeed. Do think carefully about that.

HOWEVER, the above stands only if you start at a low level and know the campaign is eventually going to get to high-level, OR if you start level 12 or higher (level 12 is where you get Aura of Protection and the level 6 Sorcerous Origin ability).

If your game starts at level 6 or higher, and if you know you will never get over level 12 (perhaps because it’s a one-shot campaign), and you want to experience the unique powers of Birthblades, in that case, starting Paladin 2 and going Sorcerer 4 or higher for War Caster may be the better choice (or Paladin 3, if it’s level 7 or higher, and so on). (I wrote “starts at level 6 or higher” because otherwise, you cannot get War Caster at the beginning of character creation.)

For instance, if you’re joining a short campaign that starts at level 8 and only gets to level 10 (the DM declares this when he explains the campaign to the players), you might want to go Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 6. Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 2 is honestly not a competent Caster, since you don’t have Metamagic nor level 2 or higher spells. Aura of Protection is good, but if you want to experience the sheer “power” of Birthblades, you might want to pursue faster spell progression.

Foxhound438
2015-12-30, 05:50 AM
My dm at home does this, fights are a bit more grindy though since mobs get max hp too.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-30, 05:52 AM
Seems like a nice way to get a higher-powered feel without having to alter the base rules much. I wouldn't use it for every game but I think it's a nice little rule to keep in mind when you want to encourage bolder play without going totally OTT.

Killer Angel
2015-12-30, 05:59 AM
I've used it in my last campaign, and it gave good results, also the players were satisfied (exactly for this reason
Seems like a nice way to get a higher-powered feels without having to alter the base rules much.).

Logosloki
2015-12-30, 06:01 AM
Maximum HP is fine, you don't really need to up the fights to counter it unless you are also using maximum hp on enemies, in which case it is more that the fights get a bit grindy.

I found that maximum hp is great for setting the tone of a campaign. The times I have run something with it, I noticed that the players were a bit more reckless than normal, which may or may not be to your liking.

When I play a game where I wish to convey a social or intrigue setting I usually set hp to average+con mod, which makes players more cautious, they take to cover more and are more likely to look for less lethal solutions to fights.

My default is the rules. Hit die + con mod and accept or reject the roll and take average + con mod.

M Placeholder
2015-12-30, 06:05 AM
I had a rule in my Dark Sun campaign I was DMing in that the players rolled twice for hitpoints at each level, taking the higher score. I got the idea from Planescape and the sect known as The Dispossessed (httphttp://mimir.net/sects/dispossessed.shtml). When creating Anvil The Chipper (an NPC in my new campaign), I also rolled twice.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-30, 06:06 AM
Maximum HP is fine, you don't really need to up the fights to counter it unless you are also using maximum hp on enemies, in which case it is more that the fights get a bit grindy.

I found that maximum hp is great for setting the tone of a campaign. The times I have run something with it, I noticed that the players were a bit more reckless than normal, which may or may not be to your liking.

When I play a game where I wish to convey a social or intrigue setting I usually set hp to average+con mod, which makes players more cautious, they take to cover more and are more likely to look for less lethal solutions to fights.

My default is the rules. Hit die + con mod and accept or reject the roll and take average + con mod.

Other variants I've used in the past


1d6+Con becomes 1d4+2+Con
1d8+Con becomes 1d4+4+Con
1d10+Con becomes 1d4+6+Con
1d12+Con becomes 1d4+8+Con

This retains dice rolling which players seem to love. It also keeps some variability so that not every level or character is exactly the same which can just feel more interesting. It still increases a health pools a great deal for that durable feeling


1d6 becomes 2d3
1d8 becomes 2d4
1d10 becomes 2d5
1d12 becomes 2d6

This raises average health by just hair, but ensures no dude levels. It also makes big levels rarer, but they feel all the much more sweet for it. Not a big enough power increase to be noteworthy but it does make power more consistent, which is easier to build content for in a lot of cases. The assumptions the game makes about averages actually come true for most characters.

d3 = d6(divide result by half, round up)
d5 = d10(divide result by half, round up)

Gastronomie
2015-12-30, 10:19 AM
Oh, so many people already impliment this (or something similar)! Nice to hear - thanks guys. Prolly gonna use this or some suggestions made for my future game.



Unaware of Loss, nor aware of gain
What’s Your Weapon of Choice?
Part 2: Greatsword

http://i.imgur.com/vK98Mhs.gif
You can never have too much of badass action scenes. (Image by Ufotable)

Greatsword Birthblade
This is the offense build of Birthblades, with terrifying damage capabilities on top of your magical versatility. In exchange for being able to inflict loads and loads of damage, you will suffer from lower AC and saving throw bonuses compared to a S&B build, so this build requires more careful crafting (beginners should first go S&B - you can’t go wrong with them), but if built right, it’s hilarious to play.

I said the S&B build is the “ultimate All-Rounder”.
The Greatsword build here is the “master of damage”. Its “core concept” may be more similar to an “Eldritch Knight” in how magic is mainly a way to ultimately boost your martial capability.

Though you don’t get as many attacks, you will have a lot more ways to make GWM hit accurately than the average GWM Fighter, using your spells and the abilities of the Paladin and Sorcerer to their maximum. Almost everything of the build should be built to synergize with GWM by improving your attack rolls.

Core Concept
Great Weapon Master is a truly amazing Feat, and strong enough to build a whole character around. This is one such build.

+10 damage per hit is boss, but the -5 to attack rolls makes it difficult to use on its own. You need to combine it with something else to be truly effective. Thus we will use various spells and class abilities to improve your attack roll bonus, as well as gain advantage on the attacks, to make sure that you hit accurately as much as possible, and get to make the most out of the Great Weapon Master feat (advantage also increases your chances of landing a critical hit, allowing another attack as a bonus action!).

To be accurate with your attacks, you will want to prioritize STR more than S&B builds do. Taking the Blade Mastery (UA) Feat could be actually a better idea than an ASI, though, with a +1 attack roll bonus and two extra abilities (+1 AC with a bonus action and advantage on opportunity attacks), both of them extremely helpful.

Now, one thing to note: due to the nature of character attack roll bonuses and monster ACs in D&D 5e, Great Weapon Master is generally stronger at higher levels than it is at lower levels. Your attack roll bonus will drastically improve with level progression, but the monster ACs don’t rise that much. Granted, this isn’t much of a problem, since Birthblades themselves are better at higher levels. If you’re playing a Birthblade, chances are you’re playing in a mid-to-high level anyway (READ: If your campaign is starting low-level, best to go S&B instead of GWM).

For instance, a level 1 Paladin with 16 STR has an attack bonus of +5, so even if he has GWM via Variant Human, he will find it difficult to use it all the time. Even at this level, your enemies have decent AC (for instance, Goblins have 15 AC, when they’re only CR 1/4), and the risk of -5 to hit is too much.

When this is a level 20 Paladin/Sorcerer with 20 STR and Blade Mastery, the attack bonus is +12 (in most actual games it gets even better with magical items). Then do your enemies all have 22 AC? Probably not, that sort of AC is reserved for special monsters like the Ancient Red Dragon.

Now, speaking of the Ancient Red Dragon...

GWM is designed to be better against hordes. It relies on the enemies having low AC (for the -5/+10) and dying frequently (for the bonus action attack).

Then does the Paladin/Sorcerer suck against powerful solos/duos?

NO!!!! Hell no, you’re awesome against solos and duos. This is because Divine Smite gives you insane nova damage and allows you to beat the boss to a pulp without giving him time to react. Even more so if he’s a Fiend or Undead. Together with your versatility via spells, once your level is high, you’re set to be effective in any sort of encounter.
Core Abilities
It should be noted that unlike the Longsword build, which is meant to be an “all-rounder”, the Greatsword build should revolve around the abilities of GWM, meaning that “increasing your attack roll bonus” and “gaining advantage” are your top priorities. Now what to go with that?

Paladin
Fighting Style: As with Longsword builds, Defense is a good option for Birthblades, and especially with how your AC is going to be lower than a Longsword build (despite the fact your HP is the same), you probably will want that +1 AC. Just because you’re going to be an offense-oriented build, doesn’t mean you can easily trash your defenses.
The effectiveness of Great Weapon Fighting, meanwhile, depends on your DM’s rulings. Some DMs rule that the re-rolling works on Divine Smite, in which case this ability is Sky Blue. Others rule that the re-rolling works on the original 2d6, in which case this ability is Purple. Sage Advice agrees with the latter, but I honestly don’t take Sage Advice that seriously (the whole point of TRPGs is that the DM has final say, and Sage Advice should be specifically for when a DM really doesn’t know what to do with a certain ruling), and many DMs still go with the former ruling. Ask your DM beforehand about his thoughts on the ruling of Great Weapon Fighting if you’re going to build a Greatsword character (be it Birthblade or not - Paladins and Battle Masters all apply, with Divine Smite and Superiority Dice). I personally think that even with the former ruling, it’s not like Great Weapon Fighting will ever be a game-breaking choice.
Lay on Hands: It can be used to heal in-between fights (you have lower AC than a Longsword build, so you might get hit more often), or you can heal your Poisoned condition (which is fatal for any GWM build due to disadvantage on attack rolls). The fact you rely more on your attacks than a Longsword build means that this ability is extremely important for you. If you get poisoned during the middle of the fight and no one can neutralize your poison, it’s actually not a bad idea to use your action to heal yourself. Or, of course, you can still fling Fireballs with no problem though, so that’s another option.
Divine Smite: It works when your opponent’s AC is high and you’re afraid of using GWM. Also, you will often have advantage, meaning you will roll crit as twice as often. Crit+Smite can severely injure and perhaps even kill boss monsters on its own, so the fact you get advantage often is a major boost to the possibilities of this ability.
Extra Attack: This guide sorta assumes you go 6/14 (or 7/13) with Paladin/Sorcerer progression. In which case, the Extra Attack from Paladin 5, which increases the number of GWM -5/+10s you can fling per round, is a must-have.
However, there is another way of building a Birthblade, which is 3/17 (using Favored Soul for the Sorcerer Origin). I honestly think this is a really bad choice, given how insanely strong Aura of Protection is, but if you really want to go that way, you don’t need this ability.
Aura of Protection: Arguably the strongest ability in the entire game, and the reason to go Paladin 6. If not for this, 3/17 with Favored Soul would have been the superior option by far.
Improved Divine Smite: This is written here, not because it’s a core ability, but actually because it’s really not worth it, and I wanted to emphasize it. Extra damage is not something you should consider important either, since you already have enough of it from GWM (BTW, mathematically, if your original damage per hit is higher than a certain level, the “average damage per attack roll” becomes lower with using GWM, making using GWM a bad choice). And you want to be good at spellcasting.
Whatever you do, DO NOT GO PALADIN 11. And since the Oaths that are good for GWM (Devotion and Vengeance) both have mediocre level 7 abilities, being a GWM build, you should stop Paladin progression at level 6. Any more is a waste, unless your choice is Oath is unoptimized and you are going either Ancients or Oathbreaker (in which case it will be worth it).
If you want the Aura of Vitality + Extended Spell combo, you should go S&B, not GWM.
Bless: Level 1 spell. This and GWM work together nuts. However, you’re probably more versatile with your casting than most of the other guys in your team who can use this spell as well, so if possible, you should politely ask the party Cleric to cast it on you, instead of using it yourself. Especially at higher levels, when Greater Invisibility and stuff start to kick in (or if you’re a Shadow Sorcerer - which you should be - this stands for lower levels as well. BTW, interestingly, Bless does not require the Cleric to be able to see you by RAW, unlike many other spells, which means you can be Blessed even while you’re shrouded in darkness... Rather strange).
Magic Weapon: Level 2 spell. Bypass resistance to non-magical weapons and gain bonus to hit, all packed in a nice, non-taxing Bonus Action. Upcasting it at level 4 makes the bonus +2, while at level 6 or higher it becomes a +3. However, it also requires concentration and cannot be used on already magical weapons, meaning that at higher levels it might start to taste bland.
Elemental Weapon does similar stuff, but IMO it’s inferior to Magic Weapon in almost all ways, ‘cause it requires at least a level 3 slot to use, uses up your main action, and you don’t really need that additional +1d4 magical damage in the first place. If it didn’t need concentration it would’ve been hell amazing,but the creators didn’t make it that way.

Sorcerer
Metamagic: Just like in the case with Longsword builds, do keep in mind that you get only two options, and the options don’t increase till Sorcerer level 10. Thus you should choose these wisely.
First, Quickened Spell is mandatory, so that’s that. Then you should go for either Heightened Spell (when you really want to kill someone) or Twinned Spell (use on stuff like Polymorph, Haste, or Booming Blade*). If you’re going level 9 Paladin, Extended Spell is another good option for the Aura of Vitality combo.
Since your CHA is going to be lower than a Longsword Paladin (in other words, the DC for your spells is a bit low), Heightened Spell is an ideal option in your case. However, depending on what spells you wish to use, Careful Spell can possibly become Sky Blue as well (spells like Web, Hypnotic Pattern and Stinking Cloud belong here. Emphasis on Web, which Restrains the enemies... Meaning that apart from gluing them in place and bestowing disadvantage on their attack rolls, you gain advantage on attacks against them!)
*NOTE-Some rulings by the creators say Green-Flame Blade cannot be twinned since it must choose two targets. However, as with all rulings, this depends on the DM, so ask beforehand.
Hold Person: Level 2 spell. Targets are limited to Humanoids, meaning it can be a rather campaign-situational spell, but paralyzing enemies with a level 2 slot is an insanely powerful effect - and most campaigns will have a good number of Humanoids to paralyze. Auto-crit means your Smites will work wonders, and more so with Quickened + Extra Attack. Unless your DM has officially stated that you will fight only Oozes for your entire career or something, this should be on your list.
Haste: Level 3 spell. This rating of Blue assumes you already are high-level enough to have Aura of Protection (in addition to either War Caster or Resilient). Until you get that, this is Purple.
+2 AC, advantage on DEX saves, and getting to take double the action (or one additional attack) is an amazing buff for anyone. It’s even better on yourself, given how you’re a good gish who wants extra turns all the time, and even better when you Twin it to affect some other powerful guy in your party as well.


http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q654/SausyNinja/tumblr_mcff0hfOJC1qho1uao1_500_zpsf583e97e.gif
^Kiritsugu the Magus Killer, having his Time Alter ability, agrees that speeding up your time is a powerful strategy indeed.^
(Image by Ufotable)

However, Haste also has the weakness of making the target(s) waste a whole turn doing nothing after your concentration is broken.
This can be taken in two ways. The first way to think of it is that failing the concentration save is devastating, but this is not the real problem, especially since 16 CON + Resilient + Aura of Protection (+3) is enough to surpass a +10 bonus on its own, meaning you will succeed on the save all the time unless the damage is really big.
The real problem is that AFTER USING HASTE, YOU CANNOT USE OTHER CONCENTRATION SPELLS DURING THE FIGHT.


https://45.media.tumblr.com/07077cf474748d9331bc2c50b0c8cb50/tumblr_o0l6tjNSSd1sajb9no6_500.gif
"ARGGGHHHHH FUUUUUUUUUU"
^ Kiritsugu, after he realizes he can’t use other concentration spells for the rest of the fight. ^
(Image by Ufotable)

Thus, use Haste with caution and care. It’s a wonderful spell in the right moment, but not all moments are for Haste. Don’t be afraid to use it when it’s worth it. Don’t use it if you think you wanna use other concentration spells later too. And be aware: you have quite a damn lot of effective Concentration spells.

Greater Invisibility: Level 4 spell, and an absolute nosebleeder for almost any frontline character. It’s all the benefits of Darkness + Devil’s Sight or Eyes of the Dark, except it doesn’t hinder your friends, making this the better option (albeit costly). Requires concentration. Is it worth it? Most certainly. If this isn’t worth it, nothing really is.
Hold Monster: Level 5 spell. So like, you can now target any monster with Hold Person. I really don’t think I need to explain why that’s a good thing.
Paladin Oath Evaluation
This differs a lot with Longswords and Greatswords.

Oath of Devotion
Sacred Weapon synergizes so amazing with GWM. In fact it synergizes so well that it easily makes this option Sky Blue on its own.
Advantage does not stack. This means that if you want to hit as accurately as possibly, instead of having lots of abilities that give you advantage, you should have both abilities that boost your bonus to hit AND abilities that give you advantage.
Generally, 5e has a lot of ways to do the latter. Then how about the former? The answer is “not many”, since 5e is fundamentally designed so you don’t need to crunch together a dozen bonuses each time you make an attack (it seems the recent UA additions are starting to go against that design model though...). Paladin is unique in that sense in how it has both Bless, as well as the Sacred Weapon feature (in a sub-class). You should put this trait to your advantage*.
NOTE-This is actually a really bad pun, given how the whole point of Sacred Weapon is that it has NOTHING to do with advantage.
Oath Spells: A mixed bag of situational abilities that’s anyways extremely useful in how they’re free to take. All the Oath Spells options are good for you, considering how Sorcerers get so little spell selection, and you desperately need versatility .
Channel Divinity: Sacred Weapon: Repeat after me: It increases your bonus to hit. Repeat again, after me: It increases your bonus to hit. One last time, after me: It increases your bonus to hit.
IT F***ING INCREASES YOUR BONUS TO HIT!!!!!!!!!!!
Need I say more? This is THE reason to take this Oath.
Make sure to ask your DM if you can cast it before combat starts, to avoid losing your first turn doing nothing. Personally, I will permit it if it’s obvious that the adventurers had a chance to predict the upcoming fight (and also introduce enemies who buff themselves before combat, to make stuff equal). It does depend on the DM though.
Channel Divinity: Turn the Unholy: Too situational to be given an actual rating. It is certainly not bad when it can be used, though.
Aura of Devotion: Can’t be Charmed. Not “advantage”, you can’t be charmed. And sure it’s a nice ability, but it also sorta overlaps with racial abilities of an Elf or Half-Elf, and it’s also situational. A majority of Charming effects look at WIS, and with proficiency in WIS saves and Aura of Protection, chances are you’re gonna succeed on the save either way. If you’re going Devotion, level 6 is probably enough (unless you’re going level 9 for level 3 spells).

Oath of the Ancients
This is a really unique Oath in how it specifically allows you to be an extremely effective Mage Slayer without even taking the Mage Slayer Feat.
There are two reasons for this - the first obvious one being Aura of Warding, and the second one being Ensnaring Strike, a spell that rarely works on boss monsters with the exception of human Casters (!!), but is devastating if it goes off.
If your campaign is primarily about hunting evil Archmages and Witches, this becomes Blue. However, other from Ensnaring Strike, this Oath has little to add to GWM builds - and Ensnaring Strike is a situational spell.
WARNING: This rating specifically refers to when you go 7 levels in Paladin instead of 6. If you plan on going only Paladin 6, DO NOT CHOOSE THIS OATH.
Oath Spells: Apart from having Misty Step, the spell Ensnaring Strike (limited to only Ancients Paladins and Rangers) allows you to make a target Restrained (advantage!). Sadly, it doesn’t work on most boss monsters (powerful monsters tend to be Large or larger and also have high STR), with the rare exception of that evil necromancer or archmage or whatever, which is indeed a terrible shame given all the benefits of Restraining someone (if the boss monster is that sort of guy who is Medium or smaller and has low STR, this becomes a lot better).
Using Heightened Spell on Ensnaring Strike is a pretty good option in certain situations. See, due to the restrictions of Metamagic, you can’t Quicken and Heighten at the same time on a single spell, meaning that if you want to use your main action for Extra Attack but want to use your bonus action that turn to get attack advantage via spells, the options are very limited indeed. This is one way to do it, since Ensnaring Strike is a Bonus Action spell from the first place, and it’s indeed useful when you need it.
Channel Divinity: Nature’s Wrath: It’s not that it’s necessarily bad, it’s that Ensnaring Strike is generally the better option, being a bonus action. At least this one doesn’t require concentration. It’s not bad when it can be pulled off, so better than nothing.
Channel Divinity: Turn the Faithless: Same as Turn the Unholy - too situational to be given an actual rating, but certainly not bad when it can be used.
Aura of Warding: The selling point of this Oath. Just like I wrote in the Longsword section, it’s situational, but when it works it’s so amazing it can win the encounter on its own. Enemy casters tend to have no way to damage you besides spells (or that pathetic “bludgeon with staff” attack that doesn’t work on you anyways), and this can really cripple them like hell.

Oath of Vengeance
Vow of Enmity is one of the very rare options that give you advantage on attacks with a Bonus Action and without a save. However, advantage does not stack (unless your DM has ruled otherwise), meaning that, say, if you’re a Shadow Sorcerer or something that can easily gain advantage from a different source, this isn’t as attractive an option as it should be (even then, it’s a nice back-up option though).
This option is very close to Sky Blue, and if your DM rules that Sacred Weapon can never be cast before combat, or you simply like the idea of a Dark Knight, this becomes Sky Blue. You will probably not regret taking this Oath in a GWM build. If you feel like taking it, feel free to take it.
Oath Spells: This doesn’t give you much extra spell options when you compare it to the Sorcerer spell list. What it does is freeing up Sorcerer spell options and allowing you to choose more Sorcerer spells. That’s a pretty good thing.
Channel Divinity: Abjure Enemy: Not bad as means to keep someone from escaping or running towards the backrow casters. It’s easy to forget, but unlike you, most casters are fragile.
Channel Divinity: Vow of Enmity: It’s a Bonus Action, gives you advantage, and doesn’t require a save either. You want advantage. This is good for you. Eat it.
Relentless Avenger: Not bad. Not something worth the extra Paladin level either.

Oath of the Crown (SCAG)
What was probably the best Oath for S&B Birthblades becomes what is arguably the worst option for GWM builds. Having not a single offense-oriented ability, Oath of the Crown is pure anti-synergy with GWM, and is to be absolutely avoided for anyone reading this section.
THIS sort of thing is exactly why I had to do the time-consuming task of dividing the sub-class rating section into three different parts based on the type of weapon you’re using, each with different ratings. Your weapon defines your combat style. Since your combat style is different, the importance of a lot of sub-class abilities change drastically as well.
See, most of the class guides out there assign only a “general” rating to the class and sub-class abilities. Yeah, well sure, it’s helpful, but it’s possible to be even more helpful by specifying when it’s Blue like you rated, and when it’s actually Red.
Say, if I just said that “Oath of the Crown makes a wonderful Birthblade” and ended it there, a lot of people might misunderstand it and start choosing Oath of the Crown even for GWM builds. That is not the sort of incomplete guide I tend to create here. You want to optimize reading this, right?
Anyhow, let’s move on to rate the Oath of the Crown for GWM builds.
Oath Spells: Blue for builds that go Paladin more than 9 levels due to Spirit Guardians, Black for builds that go only 6 or 7. Not a bad list, but not as good as the other ones.
Channel Divinity: Champion Challenge: Unlike the Longsword Birthblade, your AC is not as effective, and you should care more about “swiftly killing all your enemies before they reach the backrow” more than “keeping the enemies around you and not letting them go”. This ability that was Sky Blue for S&B becomes dull Black for GWM.
Channel Divinity: Turn the Tide: It’s not bad, it’s of course a nice ability to have. Just suits S&B more due to their “job”.
Divine Allegiance: Using up your reaction is generally something you want to keep away from, and the 5 feet radius makes it even worse. Could be worth using if the friend next to you is going to faint, in which case this is a good use of your reaction, but generally, I would stop at Paladin 6, even if you were to take this Oath for some reason.

Oathbreaker (DMG)
If you’re going go go Oathbreaker, the best weapon for you is actually not a Greatsword, but a Glaive or Halberd. That way Aura of Hate works most effectively.
Sadly, there isn’t a Polearm section in this guide (at least not yet). If there is one, this will be Sky Blue no-questions-asked in there, but here, it will be kept Black.
Since you have Extra Attack, Aura of Hate is good to have. Going level 7 is pretty tempting, and probably not a choice you will later regret (unless you actually ever hit level 20 and your Sorcerer 14 ability that you lost was amazing). Do keep in mind that having too much attack damage from the start may actually make using GWM a mathematically bad choice, which may contradict the theme of the build (but even then, having bonus damage is a good thing).
All in all, the abilities given by the Oathbreaker are generally good and allow you to be a pretty wonderful melee character. The reason why this option is regardless rated as Black is because while the individual abilities are powerful, they do not exactly synergize with GWM, meaning that the Oaths that do (Devotion and Vengeance) are better choices. For this reason, to make it more clear that those two Oaths are superior, this has been rated Black. It’s not that this option is bad - it’s just that there are better ones for GWM builds.
This Oath (or rather, the state of “Breaking an Oath”) specifically requires DM permission in how many associated characters will be evil. Whatever the case, it’s part of player manners to be cooperative to the team, so do keep that in mind, even when playing an Evil character.
Oathbreaker Spells: Every class needs something to balance itself out, and in the Oathbreaker’s case that appeared in its Spell List. The spells in here are not necessarily bad, but not the sort of stuff you will be using frequently either. Very situational and overall meh.
Channel Divinity: Control Undead: It’s situational, but also as broken as hell when it goes off. Sky Blue in the right campaign.
Channel Divinity: Dreadful Aspect: Copy-paste from Longsword: “The selling point of Oathbreakers in Birthblade builds. The super-superb part of this ability is that the targets can’t re-attempt saves unless they get over 30 feet away from the Oathbreaker - there is no other way to escape the Frightened condition bestowed by this ability. But if you’ve already locked the targets into melee range, the targets must risk being hit by opportunity attacks to get over 30 feet away from you. And when that’s triggered, you use War Caster+Booming Blade to zap them to a crisp. This combination is absolutely devastating.”
Even with GWM builds, this is a nice ability to have, especially since unlike the “Champion Challenge” of the Oath of the Crown, this ability also includes a defensive option with frightening your enemies.
Aura of Hate: Works better with Extra Attack than it does with GFB and BB. Adding your CHA modifier to your damage rolls is good, and if your party includes a Necromancer, this ability becomes awesome beyond belief.
Copy-paste from Longsword: This ability can become detrimental for you if you face Fiends or Undead, but by RAW Divine Smite somehow still works with Oathbreakers (I really think they should change the damage type to Necrotic and change the preferred targets to other monster-types for Oathbreakers, but anyways), so you can Smite them harder to kill them first before they kill you (and don’t forget that powerful undead can become best friends with Control Undead). That, or you can utilize your high CHA and spellcasting capabilities to simply slink back into the backrow and fling Fireballs until your evil friends have all been extinguished from the battlefield.
Sorcerer Origin Evaluation

Draconic Bloodline
None of the abilities the Draconic Bloodline offers you are bad. All of them are good. It’s just that they don’t necessarily mesh with the concept of GWM.
Draconic Ancestor: Extremely campaign-dependent but can be useful in certain situations.
Draconic Resilience: Using a melee weapon requires you be in melee range. If you’re in melee range, you’re more likely to be killed. And most importantly, people die if they are killed (http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/593/peopledie.jpg), meaning that having extra HP is always important for a melee character.
Elemental Affinity: You generally don’t use Green-Flame Blade, which really downgrades this ability. Fireball remains buffed.
Dragon Wings: Being able to fly is even more interesting for GWM builds than it is for S&B builds in how you can now reach flying enemies and engage them in melee, without fearing of the caster losing concentration (S&B builds can go ranged as well via spells without losing their main selling point).

Wild Magic
The first thing to say: Wild Magic Sorcerer is not a bad choice for GWM builds. Not particularly amazing either, but the advantage you gain from Tides of Chaos can be good if combined with GWM.
As with Longswords: “The powers of this class largely depend on how often your DM is willing to activate Tides of Chaos. Depending on the DM, this can become possibly upgraded to Blue.”
Tides of Chaos requires neither an action nor a bonus action, and not even a reaction. If your DM is a willing person and you can pull it off with some frequence, this can become a pretty interesting choice. You should ask beforehand about his thoughts on this matter.
Wild Magic Surge: Entertainment, which at times come with a price. It’s really fun and a good class, but not exactly the sort you look for in optimization.
Tides of Chaos: Advantage on anything, once per short rest! And it recharges whenever the DM “feels like it”. This is largely dependent on the DM, but with the right DM, can be abused to hell. Use it on your attack rolls for maximum effect.
Bend Luck: Copy-paste from Longswords: “It’s like Bardic Inspiration, except you don’t need to give it beforehand. 1d4 might not seem like a large amount, but it’s very versatile in both boosting your friends and weakening your enemies. Using up your Reaction is what sorta hurts, hence the Blue rating, but still an actually pretty good ability.”
Controlled Chaos: Avoid turning into a potted plant by accident. That’s pretty nice.

Storm Sorcery (SCAG)
Everything I wrote for Longswords builds in here also stands for Greatswords: “This is a wonderful Sorcerous Origin option that is both thematic and powerful. Sadly, it doesn’t synergize well with Birthblades.”
To add, GWM builds should try to maximize their attack accuracy as much as possible. The Storm Sorcerer has nothing to add in that sense, which is actually a negative thing rather than a neutral thing, and in that sense, even the often name-called (if not underrated) Wild Magic is better. The Storm Origin is good for pure Sorcerers, but deserves Purple for GWM Birthblades.
Below is all copy-paste from Longswords, since I didn’t feel the need to change anything.
Wind Speaker: Great, so now you can speak with that raging Elemental that’s coming after the party to kill you! Better than nothing, but this ability will be important once in every, like, several hundred sessions (unless your DM is a good, creative DM who knows his job well, and specifically creates moments where this ability can be useful).
Tempestuous Magic: Your spells are generally going to be cast using Bonus Actions, and even if it’s cast with an Action, you don’t need to run away from your opponents.
Heart of the Storm: This ability is more important for Birthblades than it is for pure Sorcerers in how you’re on the frontlines, and having a lot of enemies within 10 feet of you is a good thing, not a bad thing. Sadly, there are not many spells that deal Thunder or Lightning damage, and even when there are, dealing damage using spells is the least of your priorities.
Storm Guide: This is one of those abilities that can become Sky Blue with the right situations but is otherwise too, and I mean too situational to be considered an actual class ability. If your campaign is going to be about a bunch of adventuring pirates, your party needs a guy with this ability, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be you, given how almost nothing this Origin offers is beneficial for a Birthblade.
Storm’s Fury: It’s like you have an unlimited supply of Hellish Rebuke, except with a less resisted damage type. Which is good. It also uses up your reaction, and thus robs you of opportunity-Booming-Blading and Shielding. Which is meh. Overall not bad, I mean, it’s still useful, but not something to get really excited over either.

Favored Soul (UA)
If you are going Paladin 6, this Origin is a joke. The level 1 and 6 abilities pertaining to proficiency and extra attack are basically worthless for you, since you already have them from another class. Chosen of the Gods frees up some of your Sorcerer spell selection depending on the Domain, but in general they overlap too much with Paladin and are not worth the effort. This is a terrible option for most GWM Birthblades.
HOWEVER, if you are going to stop at Paladin 3 and take the rest in Sorcerer, this is pretty much the only Sorcerous Origin available to you - because otherwise you cannot gain Extra Attack. Now, it should be noted that 3/17 itself is a suboptimal option due to lack of Aura of Protection, but anyways, if you really want to go with it... Favored Soul is your Origin, no questions asked.
Chosen of the Gods: Read this as “bit more spell versatility”. Not that it makes you as versatile as you hope. Let’s look at the Domain candidates.
Knowledge prominently gives us Command, Suggestion, Arcane Eye and Scrying. Not bad, but more of out-of-combat stuff than in-combat. Having Suggestion constantly ready gives us the freedom to take 1 extra Sorcerer spell. Not bad. Not the sort of stuff you expect from being a “Chosen of the Gods” either.
Life has honestly not much to give us, which is not a surprise, since all the important spells are already on the Paladin list, and we don’t need that many Paladin spells to make a strong Birthblade.
Light is not bad, freeing up Sorcerer spell selection with Fireball and Wall of Fire. It also has Faerie Fire and Scrying, which are good spells. Faerie Fire is especially beneficial for Greatsword builds, but in all honesty, you’d rather have someone else in the party cast it.
Nature is a bag of situational spells that is not really that bad, but not the sort of stuff you would trade the level 1 and 6 abilities of the other Origins for.
Tempest has nothing special about it.
Trickery is an actually pretty good list, and is probably the best choice, since it has Mirror Image, Dispel Magic, Polymorph and Dominate Person, allowing you to choose a lot more Sorcerer spells.
War has spells like Spiritual Weapon, Magic Weapon, Spirit Guardians, and Hold Monster, so it’s an okay choice.
Death (DMG) is honestly bad.
Arcana (SCAG) is likewise meh.
Bonus Proficiencies: It’s not really a “bonus” proficiency when you already have it.
Extra Attack: It’s not really an “extra” attack when you already have it from another source. HOWEVER, if you’re going 3/17, this is your only way to get Extra Attack. Keep in mind it’s at level 6, not 5, meaning that (together with the fact you will start off with 1 or 2 Paladin levels) you will get Extra Attack several levels late.
Divine Wings: Same as the Draconic Bloodline ability.

Shadow (UA)
Copy-paste from Longsword: “Also known as the Emo Sorcerer. The “Quirks” list included in the UA article is really fascinating, and IMO a list that should be added to any new supplements WotC publishes, but that’s not really relevant to this guide. What is relevant to this guide is that Shadow Sorcerers are a pretty strong - if not overpowered - choice of Origin that can both tank and attack nicely.”
Now, what’s important here is Darkness + Magical Darkvision, easily one of the most overpowered abilities in the game. Advantage on all your attacks, disadvantage on all attacks against you, and not getting targeted by enemy spells and abilities. Everything in this package screams “WIN”, and here, I’ll say it honestly and loudly, THIS IS THE SUB-CLASS FOR GWM BUILDS. If you want to optimize a GWM Paladin/Sorcerer build, there is no excuse to not taking this Origin. It’s that strong. It’s also that broken. I honestly wouldn’t permit it as it is in my games, and that’s a natural thing, since Unearthed Arcana is supposed to be “test-play material”, not “official material”.
Eyes of the Dark: At level 1 it’s a Darkvision ability. From level 2 it allows you to cast an uber-empowered version of an extremely versatile Level 2 spell at the cost of 1 Sorcery Point, which is honestly nuts. It’s a badly designed ability, so you might want to ask your DM beforehand if it’s really okay to use this. My suggestion is to make it cost 2 Sorcery Points, in my games. And even then, it’s still strong.
This ability works with S&B builds as well, but being a GWM build, you can make the most out of it. You’ll be sorta similar to how a Bladelock works (Bladelocks also use Darkness+Devil’s Sight - except you actually do it better...)
Strength of the Grave: Emergency button for when you’re going to faint. Which is very useful for a tank like you.
Hound of Ill Omen: Spending 3 Sorcery Points as a Bonus Action to summon forth a CR 1 creature that also bestows an enemy disadvantage on the saving throws of your spells. While a bit costly, this is a strictly better version of Heightened Spell. And Heightened Spell was already good...
Even better for GWM builds, since your spell save DC will likely be 1 or 2 points lagging behind that of a S&B build, and you need a way to improve it. This is a wonderful way to improve it.
Shadow Walk: While a bit situational, bonus action teleport of 120 feet is an extremely juicy ability for a frontline martial character who constantly wants to be in melee range of someone in the enemy team. Use this to teleport next to the enemy caster while you’ve got Darkness on your weapon, and the enemy becomes blinded, becoming unable to cast Spells that target. Hell amazing, if not broken. IMO this should have a cost, like 1 or 2 Sorcery Points or something.
Level Progression

Now, unlike in the case with S&b, there is actually only one way to effectively progress levels in a GWM Birthblade build. It’s to:

Go Paladin 6 or 7, and go Sorc all the way from there
The reason is fairly simple and easy to understand: You want to get Extra Attack as fast as possible. And if you’ve already went Paladin 5, you should keep on going Paladin till you hit either 6 or 7, for Aura of Protection, as well as the level 7 Paladin ability (if it’s one worth taking. If not, stop at 6). After that, Sorcerer. This is the only real way to go for a GWM build.
This means that GWM Birthblade builds will generally start to get “real” at around level 9 or higher. Until that, it’s not that different from a normal GWM Paladin. Do keep that in mind if joining a low-level campaign.

HOWEVER, if you are going Paladin 3 / Sorcerer 17, you should go:

Paladin 1 or 2, proceed to go Sorcerer 1 to 6 > Paladin 3 > Paladin 3 / Sorcerer 17
You need to start Paladin for the heavy armor and WIS save proficiency. Then go Sorcerer, taking Resilient (CON) and Extra Attack. You can go straight to Sorcerer after the first level, acting as more of a Sorcerer with really high AC till you become level 7, or you can get Divine Smite and the Paladin spells with a level 2 dip and become a gish.
After that, get your Paladin level to 3 (here you gain access to Oath features like Sacred Weapon and Vow of Enmity), and once that’s done, go Sorcerer all the way.

3/17 is an overall sub-optimal build in how you don’t get the super-powerful Aura of Protection and neither do you get as many Origin features (your Origin features are mainly stuff that you would have gotten from extra Paladin levels anyway), but compared to the 6/14, you do gain these benefits:
More higher-level spells: Apart from having 1 more level 5 slot than normal Birthblades, you get access to Wish (albeit at level 20) and other awesome level 8 and 9 spells. (Sadly, being a Sorcerer, you don’t get access to Foresight, the most powerful spell in the world for gish builds. If you want Foresight, go Bladelock, because that’s another pretty good gish option.)
More Sorcery Points: It’s honestly not that much, just 3 extra points.
One more Metamagic Option: While normal Birthblades get only 3 options, you get 4. I’d choose Careful, Heightened, Quickened, and Twinned, but other people may say otherwise. Depending on the campaign, Subtle may be a good choice.

Notice that all of these benefits are exclusive to higher levels, and that at the same time, at high levels, having bad save bonuses can be lethal. All in all I think 6/14 is better, but if you still want to go 3/17, take a look at the above info for some advice.

...That said, if your campaign is going to end before level 12, going Paladin 2 or 3 / Favored Soul X can be the better option. Especially if it starts at level 8 or higher (in which you can gain War Caster and Extra Attack from the start).











Withstood pain to create weapons
What’s Your Weapon of Choice?
Part 3: Rapier

This area of the guide is still under construction. The reason is simple: I have not used one yet. Well, to be exact I have, but it was in a stat-rolling game, only several sessions (short campaign), and also at a low level (the build was Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6 since the DM declared the game will not advance to level 9 and higher), and thus I don’t know if it can be classified something I can call actual experience.

However, even with that limited experience, I can say that going Draconic Sorcerer is almost mandatory. Higher AC and HP plus Elemental Affinity is, just... I mean, it’s just too good to pass.

Apart from 6/14, I am currently thinking of some sort of really weird Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 8 / Rogue 3 / Fighter 3 multiclass (Draconic, Assassin, Battle Master - Oath undecided) that utilizes Stealth with Assassinate and keeps on hurling Divine Smite and Superiority Dice on top of those critical hits. I imagine its nova will be hilarious. He/she will probably suffer from CON 14 and CHA 16, though.
I may someday use this build and see how it works out.

Dalebert
2015-12-30, 12:44 PM
I would say that generally I would not care for it. To make it fair it seems like monsters should get max HP too and that would just make combats take longer and use up more resources. If you just make fights harder to compensate then be aware level progression will be faster. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I've been in a game where it seemed to happen too fast and the game started to feel unchallenging and too easy and the reward of advancement wasn't as satisfying.

I could see some occasions where it might be good though. For instance, if you have a small party, like 2 or 3, and you wanted to increase their survival a bit. You might also give everyone a free feat at first level. Another thread on that recently you could check out. You've probably seen it.

eastmabl
2015-12-30, 12:56 PM
I have a DM who does this. We're a group of five, but on average only three to four show up when play.

Having the max HP lets him throw the same encounters at us without fear of accidentally killing one of us when we're only 3 that night and he's written for 4.

Drackolus
2015-12-30, 12:59 PM
I am currently in a level 10 group where a barbarian and a fighter have been rolling their healths and always rolled the upper three numbers (all while everyone was watching, too. It's kind of crazy!) Now they're level 10, and the fighter just got smacked around a bunch (with heavy armor master, so not very effectively), and then the dm targetted him with "power word: kill." The wizard and I (the bard) got ready to counterspell, and the fighter said "Don't worry about it. I've still got 103 health."

Mr.Moron
2015-12-30, 01:06 PM
I would say that generally I would not care for it. To make it fair it seems like monsters should get max HP too and that would just make combats take longer and use up more resources. If you just make fights harder to compensate then be aware level progression will be faster. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I've been in a game where it seemed to happen too fast and the game started to feel unchallenging and too easy and the reward of advancement wasn't as satisfying.

I could see some occasions where it might be good though. For instance, if you have a small party, like 2 or 3, and you wanted to increase their survival a bit. You might also give everyone a free feat at first level. Another thread on that recently you could check out. You've probably seen it.

You could just leave everything as-is, and just have the PCs be more powerful. Let feel safer, take bigger risks. No need to be "Fair" to the monsters. It's not like 30% to 40%-ish more HP is going to turn PCs into unstoppable juggernauts.

I mean it's fine not to like it, style is style. I'm just saying it doesn't inherently demand any kind of balancing, and really isn't going to turn deadly encounters into a cake walk.

zeek0
2015-12-30, 01:14 PM
In my games, upon level up players roll 2(HD/2). So, if you have a d8 hit dice you roll 2d4 instead, and so forth. I find that it keeps player's hit points far less swingy (especially in the case of the barbarian), while actually increasing their hit point average by .5/level.

Just another option y'all can have on tap.

Tanarii
2015-12-30, 01:38 PM
My default is the rules. Hit die + con mod and accept or reject the roll and take average + con mod.You mean decide if you're taking the average or the roll before rolling, right? Because that's the rules.

Edit: The rules on rolling hit points are:
"Each time you gain a level, you gain 1 additional Hit Die. Roll that Hit Die, add your Constitution modifier to the roll, and add the total to your hit point maximum. Alternatively, you can use the fixed value shown in your class entry, which is the average result of the die roll (rounded up)."

Well that's just about a clear as mud. It could mean "Alternatively, instead of rolling that Hit Die, you can ...". Or it can mean "Alternatively, instead of adding the total to your hit point maximum, you can ..." :smallmad:

Naanomi
2015-12-30, 01:54 PM
So Hill Dwarf Barbarian, level 20, toughness feat... 440 Hp?

endur
2015-12-30, 01:56 PM
Back in AD&D, I knew a GM that gave all of his monsters 10 hit points per hit dice. In AD&D, most monsters have 8 sided hit dice, so it seemed extreme, but it worked ok.

I don't see maximum hit points as an issue. However, I try to avoid house rules when I don't need them. So I'd avoid this one myself, personally, because I don't think I'd get anything out of it worth having a new house rule.

VariSami
2015-12-30, 02:31 PM
I have done this with player characters in 3.5. It worked well there but I am not yet sure how different 5e is in terms of balance due to limited experience. At the very least, it should be limited to PC's, though, to make them feel more heroic. Monsters do not need such general boosts, although you might want to implement it for boss fights you want to feel particularly challenging (or for which you need a few rounds for rambling whilst fighting).

Another common alternative is taking the rounded (up) average, of course. This is the most common system I have been using. Reduces crippling variability while making the difference in hit dice somewhat meaningful.

If you are going to give the characters maximum hit points, remember to also adjust the challenges you pose. Balance is the most important factor in terms of creating them, and additional hit points increase the resources players have at their disposal. In particular, they can take away the feeling of danger unless this is accommodated for.

Ruslan
2015-12-30, 02:47 PM
Makes dumping Constitution a lot more passable. Less incentive to invest in it.

By regular rules, a fighter gets an average of 5.5+Con, so investing to raise the Con score from, let's say, 10 to 16 constitutes increasing his hit points by 55%.
With 10+Con, the same investment in Con increase from 10 to 16 only increases the hit points by 30%.

Which begs the question, is anyone even going to invest in Con now, or satisfy themselves with a mediocre stat? Not that it's necessarily bad, less Con means people get to invest more in their secondary and tertiary stats and make more interesting and well-rounded characters. I say go for it.

rlc
2015-12-30, 03:14 PM
As far as it not feeling fair unless monsters use the same rule, you can always just have the bosses use max hp and the rest if the monsters just have the average. That way, it's the important characters.

ChelseaNH
2015-12-30, 03:22 PM
I'm using a convention from a previous DM -- if your total hit points are below average, you can reroll them all and keep the new number if it's higher. (If it's not higher, your dice need a good talking-to.) This way you don't have to suffer through a series of bad rolls.

Demonslayer666
2015-12-30, 04:40 PM
Back in AD&D, I knew a GM that gave all of his monsters 10 hit points per hit dice. In AD&D, most monsters have 8 sided hit dice, so it seemed extreme, but it worked ok.

Hmmm, I used to run my game that way... :smallamused:
It was an easy adjustment to the group's power level. At average HP, they would breeze through stuff, so I had to do something, and adding character levels to stuff was difficult and not always practical. Trolls with fighter levels were rather fun though...I kept that template handy.

Max HP sounds a bit crazy.

My group uses a very player friendly rule that you can take your roll, or the DM's secret roll. But once you decide, you have to take the DM's roll, even if it's lower. Works pretty well and feels like a great risk vs. reward, although my Paladin ended up with ridiculously high HP.

Christian
2015-12-30, 07:43 PM
You mean decide if you're taking the average or the roll before rolling, right? Because that's the rules.

Edit: The rules on rolling hit points are:
"Each time you gain a level, you gain 1 additional Hit Die. Roll that Hit Die, add your Constitution modifier to the roll, and add the total to your hit point maximum. Alternatively, you can use the fixed value shown in your class entry, which is the average result of the die roll (rounded up)."

Well that's just about a clear as mud. It could mean "Alternatively, instead of rolling that Hit Die, you can ...". Or it can mean "Alternatively, instead of adding the total to your hit point maximum, you can ..." :smallmad:

!!! I always used the original reading in prior editions, except rounding down for the fixed value. The idea was to give a meaningful choice: leveling up your fighter, you could roll 1d10 and take whatever you got, or you could just take 5 hit points (plus CON bonus). You'd generally do better rolling, but you had that risk of doing worse to make you think.

With this in my head, the RAW for 5th Edition never made sense to me. If I can take a flat 6 for my fighter, why would I roll? Sure, there's a chance I might get more, but in the long run, I'm almost sure to get less. Just take the 6 and move along.

But if this choice is available after the roll ... Well, that makes more sense. There's no strategic choice to make; roll that d10, and if you get less than 6, take 6. But:


PC hit points are a bit higher
it's very unlikely that you can heal from 1 HP to full or nearly full HP during a short rest by spending all of your hit dice
Hit points are less 'swingy'--you can't end up with miserably low HP from a string of crap rolls


I'm wondering now if this isn't the RAI. There are no examples in the book to clarify exactly what is meant by the RAW.

snacksmoto
2015-12-30, 08:51 PM
Back when I played AD&D we had the HP houserule of "average is the minimum". Character Hit Dice were rolled as normal. Anything less than an average dice roll (not including CON modifier) was raised to the average. Anything better than an average dice roll you get to keep as is. No dud HP levels and no increased chance of getting maximum HP.

Tanarii
2015-12-30, 09:30 PM
I'm wondering now if this isn't the RAI. There are no examples in the book to clarify exactly what is meant by the RAW.Me too. I was confident it was like older editions too, right up until I went and looked at the rules before my edit. But it could be RAI to roll first, then take the average if lower. Worth a tweet to JC ... unfortunately I don't have Twitter.

djreynolds
2015-12-31, 02:13 AM
Makes dumping Constitution a lot more passable. Less incentive to invest in it.

By regular rules, a fighter gets an average of 5.5+Con, so investing to raise the Con score from, let's say, 10 to 16 constitutes increasing his hit points by 55%.
With 10+Con, the same investment in Con increase from 10 to 16 only increases the hit points by 30%.

Which begs the question, is anyone even going to invest in Con now, or satisfy themselves with a mediocre stat? Not that it's necessarily bad, less Con means people get to invest more in their secondary and tertiary stats and make more interesting and well-rounded characters. I say go for it.

That is very true, you could just make your players take that minimum also if they roll low. But players would dump con if you gave max hit points.

All the builds in "Battle of the Builds" in NWN2 module dumped con all the time and had minimums often in casting stats because of magic items.

charcoalninja
2016-01-01, 08:36 AM
Hp are an important class feature and leaving the possibility open for a Barbarian, a character chosen for being tough. To roll poorly and have less HP than the wizard doesn't help the game at all. Maxing hp ensures that the features do what they're supposed to do. Rolling for HP to me is like rolling for your spell slots as you level. Yeah you in theory should have gained a 3rd level slot at level 5, but you rolled bad so it's another 1st, enjoy.

Morty
2016-01-01, 08:59 AM
Rolling for HP is an incredibly pointless process, so I'd be in favour of doing something like that. Either max HP, or half+1, depending on how durable the PCs are supposed to be.

Socratov
2016-01-01, 09:01 AM
You know, actually, assuming the monsters get max hp as well, this would make the campaign a lot tougher. HP might be a lesser problem, but now combat will take longer, more combat resources will be expended and with the same number of combat you might find your wizard running on fumes. similarly for bards and fighters. their bonus dice will empty out quick.

MaxWilson
2016-01-01, 02:42 PM
Well, so I was browsing through the Recruitment section the other day and came across a particular thread in which the DM said all the PCs will have "Maximum HP".
By Maximum HP, he means that, for instance, a Barbarian who gained a level would always get a "12+CON mod" addition to his HP, instead of "1d12+CON mod".*snip* What'd you guys reckon on this idea? Have any of you guys used it? If so, how did it work out?

The main impact of this rule from a game mechanical perspective is to devalue Con and make it more compelling to pump Dex or take feats like Defensive Duelist, since Con has a proportionately smaller impact.

If you bump monster HP as well, that will make nova builds less attractive compared to at-will DPR builds.

Dimers
2016-01-01, 06:45 PM
Another HP rolling option: If you don't like your roll, roll again but subtract 1, cumulative if you repeat. So there can still be some luck but you're not as likely to get completely screwed.

I prefer taking the average -- I avoid risk. But I'm playing in a 2nd-ed game where this rule is used (and rolls are pretty important because Con bonuses are hard to come by), and it's worked well for me.

E’Tallitnics
2016-01-01, 07:03 PM
Note that a while back I tweeted the Devs and asked if using a monsters Max HP would change their CR level and the answer was that it does not!

It was during Season 1 of the AL and my table seemed to just rip through combat. Maximizing monster HP slowed that down. But conversely it does lengthen how long combat takes.

This turned out to be a good thing as the party started having to use more resources to win a fight. Great for a campaign that runs for 2h once a week. Your mileage may very...

bid
2016-01-01, 08:36 PM
The main impact of this rule from a game mechanical perspective is to devalue Con and make it more compelling to pump Dex or take feats like Defensive Duelist, since Con has a proportionately smaller impact.
Not really. HP are more a resource that you need to maintain during the day than during the fight. Moreover, this does not help concentration saves at all.

With more HP, you have have more fights in a day. Spells slots and other per-day resources are spread thinner.

Since you recover half your HD every day, you normally have a buffer of 50% extra health. With max-HP, this value becomes 25% of your health, making short rests less valuable.

Fighters and rogues can handle those longer days better, casters have to rely on cantrips more often.

djreynolds
2016-01-02, 03:28 AM
The main impact of this rule from a game mechanical perspective is to devalue Con and make it more compelling to pump Dex or take feats like Defensive Duelist, since Con has a proportionately smaller impact.

If you bump monster HP as well, that will make nova builds less attractive compared to at-will DPR builds.

That folks is the rub. The danger is dumping con.

Half + 1 if you roll less, is fair. They must've play tested it and came up with that. Does it suck when you wizard is few hit points shy of the barbarians, yes? If that is the case, because of rolling, use the 1/2 +1. Now the wizard is at 4 and the barbarian at 7 per level, or its 6 to 12 if you go max and the difference is now doubled.