Help with a Tashalatora tripper

[TheTomikaze15]

I'm looking for help with a tash tripper. Im pretty new to Psionics in general, but I know the general choices are Ardent or Psi Warrior. Is Monk 2 / x 18 a normal build? Using passive way monk( I think that's the one?). What I'm really asking is for advice on the build. I know expansion would be important here but I have really no idea where to go with this build. The idea I want is basically a Psionic monk that focuses on tripping. I have enough damage from the rest of the party that I want to add some battlefield control.

I'm really just looking for help with the build and Psionics in general also what are the advantages of taking ardent or psi war?

[lord_khaine]

I would say that one of the biggest advances from Arden is the ability to multiclass without losing access to higher level powers, as well as the ability to get a rather diverse set of unusual powers, of the sort normally reserved for psions.
(im looking at you, metamorphis and temporal acceletation).

However, Psy Warriors already start with some of the most useable powers on their own list, and for someone just getting started on psionics, then i would certainly recomend picking them instead.

Else, a Psy Warrior tripper is super easy, get a spiked chain, grow large with expansion, profit?

[Gee-chan]

Yeah, you want to be going with a Psychic Warrior for this. Heck, you can even poach an Ardent Mantle in return your your 1st lvl bonus feat too.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would suggest taking the mantled warrior ACF for the Natural World Mantle so you can nab metamorphosis without spending a feat on it later, and the soulbound warrior ACF for a particularly versatile weapon of one sort or another. Use some of the various ways to enhance your unarmed strikes to take care of adjacent attacks, a stock standard reach weapon with high-damage enhancements for normal combat, and utilize your soulbound weapon for corner cases where you need an otherwise useless enhancement to deal with an oddball enemy; for instance, sundering for a hydra, metalline for lycanthropes with DR/silver, or ghost touch for incorporeal undead. If you make your soulbound weapon a highly versatile weapon (such as an elvencraft longbow, or, yes, a spiked chain), it'll be even more useful to you.

[TheTomikaze15]

Why would the psychic warrior be better? Is it for the bonus feats and better hit die?

I like the idea of having more and better powers which seems like what the ardent would get. Unless I'm missing something? If I went with a monk/ardent tash build would I be able to add some battle field control in a from other than tripping? Because if I went monk 1/ardent 5 that would give me access to 4 mantles and have a decent amount of powers unless I'm missing something?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Why would the psychic warrior be better? Is it for the bonus feats and better hit die?

I like the idea of having more and better powers which seems like what the ardent would get. Unless I'm missing something? If I went with a monk/ardent tash build would I be able to add some battle field control in a from other than tripping? Because if I went monk 1/ardent 5 that would give me access to 4 mantles and have a decent amount of powers unless I'm missing something?By and large, the mantle mechanic screws ardents over. You're extremely limited in the powers you can choose (mitigated somewhat if you can choose your own mantle powers), which gets worse if you ever decide to PrC for more than a couple of levels. The only mantle ability that's really worthwhile is the Magic Mantle's, and that's just because it's badly worded to allow for things that (unless I'm mistaken) it was never meant to do. Manifesters are extremely feat-heay, and ardents don't get any bonus feats of consequence, whereas psions and psychic warriors do. Yes, psychic warriors run fairly low on power points, and their power progression is a bit stunted, but it's made up for in the fact that the powers they get are extremely efficient. For instance, a 1 pp manifestation of expansion is useful all the way into near epic, and the same goes for powers such as strength of my enemy and several others, as well. That, and expanding one's effective power point pool and lowering the number of pp you have to spend on your manifestations is pretty easy.

Ardents have a much higher PO ceiling because of their ultimately abusable power learning mechanic and their ACFs, but their floor is a lot lower than a psywar's, which I imagine is more relevant in most games.

[TheTomikaze15]

By and large, the mantle mechanic screws ardents over. You're extremely limited in the powers you can choose (mitigated somewhat if you can choose your own mantle powers), which gets worse if you ever decide to PrC for more than a couple of levels. The only mantle ability that's really worthwhile is the Magic Mantle's, and that's just because it's badly worded to allow for things that (unless I'm mistaken) it was never meant to do. Manifesters are extremely feat-heay, and ardents don't get any bonus feats of consequence, whereas psions and psychic warriors do. Yes, psychic warriors run fairly low on power points, and their power progression is a bit stunted, but it's made up for in the fact that the powers they get are extremely efficient. For instance, a 1 pp manifestation of expansion is useful all the way into near epic, and the same goes for powers such as strength of my enemy and several others, as well. That, and expanding one's effective power point pool and lowering the number of pp you have to spend on your manifestations is pretty easy.

Ardents have a much higher PO ceiling because of their ultimately abusable power learning mechanic and their ACFs, but their floor is a lot lower than a psywar's, which I imagine is more relevant in most games.
Okay so if one of the biggest problems with ardents is their feats and mantles, would doing something like monk2/PsiWar2/Ardent 2 prove to be a good option? I don't plan on prestiging or anything like that as I'm not sitting at a highly optimized table. I just like the feal of the ardent. I would probably take the freedom and conflict mantles first because with fractional bab that would put me at bab equal to full bab classes with the bonus feat from conflict right?

The dip in psiwar would pick up expansion and another power (inertial armor?) with 2 bonus feats. Sure I'll lose out on some pp but I think that will be okay in the long run.

I'm sure I could also drop that to monk 1 and just put in another level of ardent granting me a third mantle aswell.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay so if one of the biggest problems with ardents is their feats and mantles, would doing something like monk2/PsiWar2/Ardent 2 prove to be a good option? I don't plan on prestiging or anything like that as I'm not sitting at a highly optimized table. I just like the feal of the ardent. I would probably take the freedom and conflict mantles first because with fractional bab that would put me at bab equal to full bab classes with the bonus feat from conflict right?

The dip in psiwar would pick up expansion and another power (inertial armor?) with 2 bonus feats. Sure I'll lose out on some pp but I think that will be okay in the long run.

I'm sure I could also drop that to monk 1 and just put in another level of ardent granting me a third mantle aswell.While the multiclassing like that could work, you'll need Practiced Manifester (Ardent) to make up for the lost MLs, and you'll need to make sure to use your psywar levels wisely. You might want to look into the psywar ACFs, especially the soulbound weapon. If you can use the ardent ACF to swap out the powers in your mantles, take call weaponry as an ardent so you can use your psywar ACF with it. That does mean you need the same power with both psychic warrior and ardent, but the ACF is so badass that it's worth it. Or you could take Hidden Talent (Call Weaponry) instead, and use your powers known for other things. There's enough wriggle room to say that it's the first power you know, and you can progress the ML of it with ardent later on. That does eat up your feats, however.

Either way, look into the psywar ACFs. Soulbound Weapon is damned nice.

So the suggestion would be something like monk 2/soulbound ACF psywar 2/ardent 2 (with all ACFs), using one of your first level feats for Hidden Talent (Call Weaponry) and using your psywar powers known for, say, expansion and bite of the wolf or something, and choose ardent to progress call weaponry. Of course, take as many ACFs for monk as you care to take, like martial monk for some high level fighter feats. Want some Robilar's Gambit or Karmic Strike? You got it. Improved Trip and Knock-Down? Sure. It's up to you how you want to throw your weight around.

[edit] I'd take Inertial Armor as an ardent, if you take it at all. You want a high ML for it. Alternatively, buy some 25 gp power stones of it. CPsi has rules for using your own ML on powers manifested from power stones; you have to use your own pp for it, and it flushes the stone, but it saves you a power known, and at later levels, using 25 gp per day for the equivalent of +5 ghost touch full plate is nothing to sneeze at.

[TheTomikaze15]

While the multiclassing like that could work, you'll need Practiced Manifester (Ardent) to make up for the lost MLs, and you'll need to make sure to use your psywar levels wisely. You might want to look into the psywar ACFs, especially the soulbound weapon. If you can use the ardent ACF to swap out the powers in your mantles, take call weaponry as an ardent so you can use your psywar ACF with it. That does mean you need the same power with both psychic warrior and ardent, but the ACF is so badass that it's worth it. Or you could take Hidden Talent (Call Weaponry) instead, and use your powers known for other things. There's enough wriggle room to say that it's the first power you know, and you can progress the ML of it with ardent later on. That does eat up your feats, however.

Either way, look into the psywar ACFs. Soulbound Weapon is damned nice.

So the suggestion would be something like monk 2/soulbound ACF psywar 2/ardent 2 (with all ACFs), using one of your first level feats for Hidden Talent (Call Weaponry) and using your psywar powers known for, say, expansion and bite of the wolf or something, and choose ardent to progress call weaponry. Of course, take as many ACFs for monk as you care to take, like martial monk for some high level fighter feats. Want some Robilar's Gambit or Karmic Strike? You got it. Improved Trip and Knock-Down? Sure. It's up to you how you want to throw your weight around.

[edit] I'd take Inertial Armor as an ardent, if you take it at all. You want a high ML for it. Alternatively, buy some 25 gp power stones of it. CPsi has rules for using your own ML on powers manifested from power stones; you have to use your own pp for it, and it flushes the stone, but it saves you a power known, and at later levels, using 25 gp per day for the equivalent of +5 ghost touch full plate is nothing to sneeze at.

Wouldn't that take away from the whole unarmed strike progression from tashalatora? Since well I don't think it will let me summon my hands... So the entire flurry and unarmed strike progression would be for nothing?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wouldn't that take away from the whole unarmed strike progression from tashalatora? Since well I don't think it will let me summon my hands... So the entire flurry and unarmed strike progression would be for nothing?You can use your unarmed strikes for adjacent and a reach weapon for farther away. Or you could add the extending property to your unarmed strike and use an elvencraft longbow for adjacent and ranged. Since your soulbound weapon can have different properties every time you summon it, I tend to use it when my default weapon isn't suitable for the situation at hand. Fighting wraiths but don't have a ghost touch weapon? Summon one. Fighting a hydra and you don't have Improved Sunder? Summon a sundering weapon. And so on. Remember, there are some really useful enhancements out there. There are even enhancements that allow you to summon elementals to serve you, and you can add those enhancements to your soulbound weapon.

Of course, you could always summon a gauntlet, amulet of mighty fists, or a warforged battlefist (if you're a warforged). Then you can use it for your unarmed strike.

[TheTomikaze15]

You can use your unarmed strikes for adjacent and a reach weapon for farther away. Or you could add the extending property to your unarmed strike and use an elvencraft longbow for adjacent and ranged. Since your soulbound weapon can have different properties every time you summon it, I tend to use it when my default weapon isn't suitable for the situation at hand. Fighting wraiths but don't have a ghost touch weapon? Summon one. Fighting a hydra and you don't have Improved Sunder? Summon a sundering weapon. And so on. Remember, there are some really useful enhancements out there. There are even enhancements that allow you to summon elementals to serve you, and you can add those enhancements to your soulbound weapon.

Of course, you could always summon a gauntlet, amulet of mighty fists, or a warforged battlefist (if you're a warforged). Then you can use it for your unarmed strike.

So it could summon say, a necklace of marital attacks? Is there some information somewhere showing that this is allowed? My DM may be skeptical of this.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So it could summon say, a necklace of marital attacks? Is there some information somewhere showing that this is allowed? My DM may be skeptical of this.WHAAAA? Is that a thing?

Unless you mean a necklace of natural weapons. It's basically an augment to your natural attacks. Ask your DM to see if he'll let you. It's not like unarmed strikes don't suck pretty hard in general, after all.

You could always use the Ancestral Relic feat to pump up a necklace of natural weapons and the soulbound ACF for secondary weapon. Whether it's an elvencraft longbow or a warforged battlefist or a harpoon or something else is up to you. Figure out what you want to do with it. If you need it to be something else for one fight, you could always add the morphing property to it.

[atemu1234]

So it could summon say, a necklace of marital attacks? Is there some information somewhere showing that this is allowed? My DM may be skeptical of this.

Let's assume you meant natural attacks.

It's not a particularly bad trick.

[TheTomikaze15]

WHAAAA? Is that a thing?

Unless you mean a necklace of natural weapons. It's basically an augment to your natural attacks. Ask your DM to see if he'll let you. It's not like unarmed strikes don't suck pretty hard in general, after all.

You could always use the Ancestral Relic feat to pump up a necklace of natural weapons and the soulbound ACF for secondary weapon. Whether it's an elvencraft longbow or a warforged battlefist or a harpoon or something else is up to you. Figure out what you want to do with it. If you need it to be something else for one fight, you could always add the morphing property to it.

Lmao well there's autocorrect for you. Definitely meant natural weapons from savage species

[Uncle Pine]

So it could summon say, a necklace of marital attacks? Is there some information somewhere showing that this is allowed? My DM may be skeptical of this.

A necklace of natural weapon is explicitly a wondrous item, not a weapon. Thus, you can't summon one with Call Weaponry.