Questions for a fochlucan lyrist trying to be a melee fighter

[Eladrinblade]

Here are my questions:

1. Is there a better way than the Natural Bond feat to increase your animal companion without more druid levels?

2. Is there any way to extend the range of shared spells with your animal companion/familiar beyond the 5ft? I'm looking to flank with it.

3. Is there anyway to get around the shillelagh spell limitation that it can't be applied to an already magical weapon? Do I need to just make an "improved shillelagh" custom spell?

4. On pg. 228 of the DMG, on the bottom right is the sword of subtlety. It gives a +4 bonus to your attack and damage when making a sneak attack; any reason that can't be applied to other weapons, especially ones with more than a +1 enhancement?

5. An observation: both arcane heirophant and fochlucan lyrist have abilities that allow druids to cast in better armor with no penalty; did nobody else think to put ironwood on a darkwood breastplate? At least for bards.

I think that's it at the moment.

If it helps, the build plan is:
Rogue 1/Druid 3/Bard 3/Rogue 1/Bard 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 10
obtain familiar feat @9th

[Bobbybobby99]

If I recall correctly, you can cut down on your bard levels to just one by taking precocious apprentice, and you can then take three levels of a theurge class. So for an easy feat, you can change your build to-
Rogue 2/Druid 3/Bard 1/Arcane hierophant 4/Fochlucan lyrist 10.

Unless I'm misremembering, of course.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You may be able to substitute the two rogue levels for two feats: Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra. It'll also get you Uncanny Dodge (and +1 insight bonus on Balance and Move Silently).

Druid 5/bard 4/arcane hierophant 1/Fochluchan Lyrist 10 gets you two extra levels of druid casting, and a bit of wild shape, which is probably a good deal compared to 1d6 sneak attack and a few skill points.

If you combine that with an early entry trick (illumian with Improved Krau Sigil), as Bobby suggests, you can go bard 1/druid 5/arcane hierophant 4/fochluchan lyrist 10, for 19/20 druid casting and 16/20 bard casting, and 9th-level wild shape. A krau illumian gets +2 caster level for all classes, up to their HD, so you save a little on Practiced Spellcaster.

[Bobbybobby99]

Shape soulmeld always leaves a poor taste in my mouth, and seems a tad cheesy, so I would avoid it if I were you.

[Chronos]

did nobody else think to put ironwood on a darkwood breastplate? At least for bards.
Wouldn't work, and would be needlessly expensive. The Ironwood spell doesn't increase the hardness of an existing wooden item; it consumes the original item and creates an entirely new item made out of a special magically-created substance. The properties of the substance created don't depend at all on the properties of the original substance.

[AvatarVecna]

Here are my questions:

1. Is there a better way than the Natural Bond feat to increase your animal companion without more druid levels?

2. Is there any way to extend the range of shared spells with your animal companion/familiar beyond the 5ft? I'm looking to flank with it.

3. Is there anyway to get around the shillelagh spell limitation that it can't be applied to an already magical weapon? Do I need to just make an "improved shillelagh" custom spell?

4. On pg. 228 of the DMG, on the bottom right is the sword of subtlety. It gives a +4 bonus to your attack and damage when making a sneak attack; any reason that can't be applied to other weapons, especially ones with more than a +1 enhancement?

5. An observation: both arcane heirophant and fochlucan lyrist have abilities that allow druids to cast in better armor with no penalty; did nobody else think to put ironwood on a darkwood breastplate? At least for bards.

I think that's it at the moment.

If it helps, the build plan is:
Rogue 1/Druid 3/Bard 3/Rogue 1/Bard 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 10
obtain familiar feat @9th

1) There might be a couple ways, but I think it would be easier to just get an awakened animal as a Leadership cohort, which upgrades itself based on your character level (solving the base issue).

2) Not that I know of. However, I believe there's a way to get flanking bonuses without technically flanking, as long as both you and an ally are adjacent to the target (I think it's a feat from PH2, but it might be from elsewhere).

3) I don't think so, but if you apply Greater Magic Weapon to the normal weapon after applying Shillelagh to it, it should have a higher enhancement.

4) By RAW, that's not an enchantment that can be applied to any weapon, although the cost of such a thing can be reverse-engineered. By RAI, it's a specific weapon rather than a weapon enchantment because the designers specifically didn't want people to be able to put that enchantment on just any weapon they felt like.

5) Many people have thought of doing this exact thing; hell, WotC made the darkwood material and the ironwood spell specifically to allow for combos like this.

Now, I've got a question of my own: on a character that gets a very weak animal companion normally, is normally focused on it's dual-casting abilities (which don't include the Divine Power spell), and only has a BAB higher than Medium at 17th lvl and up, why are you focusing on martial prowess? It's literally the thing you're most mediocre at on a character that tries to be good at everything.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Shape soulmeld always leaves a poor taste in my mouth, and seems a tad cheesy, so I would avoid it if I were you.
Uh, and Precocious Apprentice is fine, even though it's more questionable (or rather, dysfunctional) by RAW? I'd highly recommend taking any advantage you can get when building a Fochluchan Lyrist, as much as I like the class - it just isn't very good compared to straight druid.

[Bobbybobby99]

Uh, and Precocious Apprentice is fine, even though it's more questionable (or rather, dysfunctional) by RAW? I'd highly recommend taking any advantage you can get when building a Fochluchan Lyrist, as much as I like the class - it just isn't very good compared to straight druid.

At very least it's used for other theurges, and isn't part of a moderately obscure and very much alternate system. There are many, many, many worlds where incarnum just flat out doesn't exist; I can't think of any where it's common, so it can't be a pinnacle of design. Precocious apprentice is used for pretty much every modestly optimized theurge, and is part of the main magic rules, au contraire.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The Urban Companion ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) gives you a familiar type thing instead of an Animal Companion, meaning it scales with your character level, but it's significantly better-- it has 3/4 of your hit points, and doesn't cost you experience to replace. Plus, since you have Bard levels, you can use your arcane caster level from that to get something off the Improved Familiar list.

[Eladrinblade]

Wouldn't work, and would be needlessly expensive. The Ironwood spell doesn't increase the hardness of an existing wooden item; it consumes the original item and creates an entirely new item made out of a special magically-created substance. The properties of the substance created don't depend at all on the properties of the original substance.

Yep, I missed the part where it says "as heavy" as regular steel. Damn shame. Oh well, mithril breasplate on a druid! WHOO


Now, I've got a question of my own: on a character that gets a very weak animal companion normally, is normally focused on it's dual-casting abilities (which don't include the Divine Power spell), and only has a BAB higher than Medium at 17th lvl and up, why are you focusing on martial prowess? It's literally the thing you're most mediocre at on a character that tries to be good at everything.

Because I want it. No, because I'm modeling a character on a concept, and I'm trying to make it work.

With a good list of spells (hopefully shared), flanking + sneak attack, UMD, and an animal companion that's at least decent, I should be able to fight in melee. Not as good as a martially-focused character, but that's fine.

[AvatarVecna]

Because I want it. No, because I'm modeling a character on a concept, and I'm trying to make it work.

With a good list of spells (hopefully shared), flanking + sneak attack, UMD, and an animal companion that's at least decent, I should be able to fight in melee. Not as good as a martially-focused character, but that's fine.

Fair enough, I was just curious. What's the concept like?

[Eladrinblade]

Fair enough, I was just curious. What's the concept like?

You ever stat out D&D versions of yourselves and friends?

I have one that was particularly talented all around, and I would say was a druid/bard hybrid. They loved the concept of a quarterstaff using combatant (inspired by a wheel of time character), so I was trying to do a fochlucan lyrist with the quick-staff feat from complete warrior. I have since given up on that feat, but the concept of a druid/bard quarterstaff-wielder still stands.

[Hiro Quester]

2: the feat companion spellbound (ph2) increases the share spells range with your animal companion to 30 ft.

[DarkSonic1337]

What sources are available? Dragon Magazine happens to have a feat that extends the range of share spells (by making out count as being in contact with your familiar)....up to a mile.

It also has a "practiced spellcaster" type feat for bardic music.

[Eladrinblade]

2: the feat companion spellbound (ph2) increases the share spells range with your animal companion to 30 ft.

Perfect.


What sources are available?

Pretty much anything that doesn't bring in a new system (like incarnum or ToB), isn't too campaign specific, and isn't dragon mag.

Really, the only thing I need now is a way to make the animal companion better (and I'm not sure that I really need it, just yet). Natural Bond gets me a brown bear instead of a black bear, or a dog with 6hd, but I don't think +3 levels of animal companion is worth a feat. Maybe if it let me have one at one-half character level or at my druid caster level (ideal; that gets me a brown bear who has evasion and devotion). I don't want to resort to a cohort; my goal is to make the animal companion work.

I can either make an improved shillelagh spell, or just get greater mighty wallop, so that's not really an issue, I guess.

[Hiro Quester]

For a shilelaugh based combat also check out Entangling Staff (SpC, 83). Swift action casting, your staff makes a free action grapple attack (at +8) with a successful hit. Deals 2d6 constriction damage. Then you can either keep grappling for more damage, or leave them entangled by vines for the duration of the spell (rounds/level).

A regular quarterstaff with shilelaugh and entangling staff cast on it is pretty fun. Especially at lower levels.

Some people will also add the brambles spell to the mix. But it's also an enhancement bonus to hit which does not stack. And it also is rounds/level so must be cast at the beginning of combat (getting expensive in terms of action costs). But it adds +1 per level damage which ain't nothing. If you have time to prepare, shilelaugh, brambles and entangling staff is a pretty good combination.

This is pretty much the non-wildshape melee combination for Druids.

[Janthkin]

If you have time to prepare, shilelaugh, brambles and entangling staff is a pretty good combination.

This is pretty much the non-wildshape melee combination for Druids.Add "Legendary Ape", and it's also the Wildshape melee combination for Druids. :)

[atemu1234]

Add "Legendary Ape", and it's also the Wildshape melee combination for Druids. :)

Oh, you cheeky rogue you! :smallsmile:

[Talionis]

At some point the Bard casting allows you to get a familiar... I think there was some way to combine your familiar and companion, can anyone else help with that...

[atemu1234]

At some point the Bard casting allows you to get a familiar... I think there was some way to combine your familiar and companion, can anyone else help with that...

You'd have to take Acquire Familiar.

[Talionis]

You'd have to take Acquire Familiar.

Yeah,thats just a feat, but I think there is a prestige class or something that let you combine your familiar levels and your animal companion levels...