Diviner (rogue/wizard/unseen seer)

[basicedgar]

I'm looking to make a character whos goal is Unseen Seer, and ideally i'd like to keep as much caster progression as possible.
I know the standard way is Rogue 1 / Wizard 4 / Unseen Seer 10 / Arcane Trickster 5

I'm obviously trying to go a stealth mage, and Unseen Seer is so heavily Divination based i want to roll with it. My primary question is for my 4 mages levels, should i stay Generalist, go Conjuration for Orbs and Summons, or Divination for consistency.

I'm aware that Divination power relies heavily on the DM playing ball, but i'm wondering if its necessary to still play this hyper planner stealth dude.
Or should i just go Conjuration and leave the Divination aspect to my Unseen Seer levels?

So i'm obviously planning on doing a lot of magic out of combat, doing prep works, using a crystal ball, and for combat mostly spend my time invisible, hiding behind fog, and trying to get off sneak attacks.

If i make my character at level 6, are there any good items you would recommend acquiring to further this goal?
150% standard gold

Please and Thank You

[ExLibrisMortis]

I would take wizard up to 5th level, and take the Spontaneous Divination ACF from Complete Champion. Fits your character perfectly.

If you're non-good, a level in Mindbender gets you telepathy, for that tasty Mindsight. Also fits your character, and the rogue dip gets you the harder skill requirements.

Don't forget to take Practiced Spellcaster, to compensate for your rogue level and the three caster levels lost from Unseen Seer levels.

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Specialization: I'd say go for Conjuration, abrupt jaunt is good. With Spontaneous Divination, you don't ever prepare divination spells, so there's no point having a bunch of divination specialist slots.

If you're sneak attacking with magic, you can try using a reserve feat as backup, especially at lower levels, when you don't have many spells.

[Troacctid]

I'd be more inclined to go Domain Wizard with Spontaneous Divination. Then you can use your domain slot to spontaneously cast divination spells, so it's like a better version of being a divination specialist, and you don't have to ban any schools, so it's just generally great.

Most of the domains are pretty good. Antimagic, Battle, and Necromancy are underwhelming, and I'm not a fan of Enchantment, but aside from that you can't really go wrong.

[DEMON]

For a Wiz-based Unseen Seer, I prefer Spellthief to Rogue, thanks to Master Spellthief.

As Mentioned by ExLibrisMortis, going Wiz 5 and taking Spontaneous Divination is very nice for this kind of character.

And as far as school specialization goes, I'm going to suggest Illusions (and going Gnome, and taking the 1st level substitution and finishing the build with the Shadowcraft Mage).

[basicedgar]

I would take wizard up to 5th level, and take the Spontaneous Divination ACF from Complete Champion. Fits your character perfectly.

If you're non-good, a level in Mindbender gets you telepathy, for that tasty Mindsight. Also fits your character, and the rogue dip gets you the harder skill requirements.

Don't forget to take Practiced Spellcaster, to compensate for your rogue level and the three caster levels lost from Unseen Seer levels.

===

Specialization: I'd say go for Conjuration, abrupt jaunt is good. With Spontaneous Divination, you don't ever prepare divination spells, so there's no point having a bunch of divination specialist slots.

If you're sneak attacking with magic, you can try using a reserve feat as backup, especially at lower levels, when you don't have many spells.

I completely forgot about Practiced Spellcaster, i'm so glad you mentioned it.
I was leaning towards Conjurations, but sometimes its a battle between the theme and the wording.
Just becuase my guy isn't a Diviner Specialist, doesn't mean he can't be a "Diviner"


Outside of a Crystal Ball, are there any good intelligence gathering items i could use?
Preparation Preparation Preparation
Obviously tons of wands for low level things, and metamagic rods when i can get them.

[basicedgar]

For a Wiz-based Unseen Seer, I prefer Spellthief to Rogue, thanks to Master Spellthief.

As Mentioned by ExLibrisMortis, going Wiz 5 and taking Spontaneous Divination is very nice for this kind of character.

And as far as school specialization goes, I'm going to suggest Illusions (and going Gnome, and taking the 1st level substitution and finishing the build with the Shadowcraft Mage).

I've read a lot of arguments for Spellthief, but my understanding was that the Spell Stealing abilities didn't really pan out to much, and the bonus skills at low level that Rogue gets you are more valuable.
I may be wrong and i'll read a little more for it.

[Troacctid]

I've read a lot of arguments for Spellthief, but my understanding was that the Spell Stealing abilities didn't really pan out to much, and the bonus skills at low level that Rogue gets you are more valuable.

I concur. Stealing 1st level spells doesn't really matter, and Master Spellthief is literally the exact same effect as Practiced Spellcaster.

[DEMON]

I concur. Stealing 1st level spells doesn't really matter, and Master Spellthief is literally the exact same effect as Practiced Spellcaster.

Depending on the DM's ruling, you might be able to steal all the levels of spells, just as single class Spellthief would. It's certainly worth asking your DM. And if worse comes to worst, you can always steal higher level spells and just not store them, I believe.

Master Spellthief is Practiced Spellcaster, Spell Stealing progression and casting in light armor (including stolen spells) combined into one feat, FWIW. It's certainly a better feat than Practiced Spellcaster alone, if you qualify.

Also, Spellthief has a fairly big spell list of it's own. If you specialize as a Wizard, it can still grant you access to consumables related to your banned school(s) - Enchantment most likely.

Granted, you lose skill points (8, or 16 if you are a Changeling) and a Ref save boost, compared to Rogue and a possible access to a 1st level Rogue ACF, it that's what you're going for.

Other than that, Spellthief has the same class features at level 1 and Spell Stealing on top of that.

It's certainly up to you what you value more, Rogue is a perfectly fine (and certainly more popular) option, though I personally prefer Spellthief in this particular case.

If Trickster ACF (from some DrMag) was an option, I believe this would be a non-issue.

Edit: You would also lose some weapon proficiencies as a Spellthief, but that shouldn't matter too much, since you're probably going to attack with spells anyways.

[Twurps]

Master spellthief is nice, but it doesn't match practiced spellcasters CL boost for non-divination spells.
Master spellthief only compensates the 1 CL lost from dipping, it does not compensate for the additional 3CL lost with unseen seer itself.

replacing rogue with Spellthief means 'sense motive' wil remain cross class, and that puts a strain on your skill points. If that can be worked around, I really like the spellthief/master spellthief combo better than a rogue dip though