Magical Secrets Alternative?

[AbyssStalker]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I have been wondering how the forum would feel about an alternative magical secrets where a bard selects from an appropriate list of abilities (or perhaps bardic versions of said abilities) instead of a couple spells, perhaps like Evasion, Brutal Critical, a fighting style, a weaker shadow-port, etc. I don't think they should be able to get abilities that are too defining of the class, such as sneak attack , smiting or sorcery points, but perhaps mainly ones that are seen in a couple of classes already, which would help give an arguable point as to the availability of said abilities between classes, as long as they are available at levels below the magical secrets (or something similar).

I have no plans on implementing this until I get a good consensus on both the entire concept and specific abilities, I just wanted to hear from some minds who have more experience and a good understanding of how the game operates on both a thematic and mechanical level.

I wasn't sure if I should put this as a home-brew thread or keep it in 5e, I am really sorry if I put this in the wrong place :smallsigh:, but I thought it should go here cause it is more-so of a conceptual analysis than a specific home-brew.

[AeonsShadow]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I have been wondering how the forum would feel about an alternative magical secrets where a bard selects from an appropriate list of abilities (or perhaps bardic versions of said abilities) instead of a couple spells, perhaps like Evasion, Brutal Critical, a fighting style, a weaker shadow-port, etc. I don't think they should be able to get abilities that are too defining of the class, such as sneak attack , smiting or sorcery points, but perhaps mainly ones that are seen in a couple of classes already, which would help give an arguable point as to the availability of said abilities between classes, as long as they are available at levels below the magical secrets (or something similar).

I have no plans on implementing this until I get a good consensus on both the entire concept and specific abilities, I just wanted to hear from some minds who have more experience and a good understanding of how the game operates on both a thematic and mechanical level.

I wasn't sure if I should put this as a home-brew thread or keep it in 5e, I am really sorry if I put this in the wrong place :smallsigh:, but I thought it should go here cause it is more-so of a conceptual analysis than a specific home-brew.


It SOUNDS viable, but I'm not sure how powerful it would be... and yeah I think you put it in the right spot.

It sounds like it could potentially make the bard hugely powerful.

[SharkForce]

bard is already hugely powerful. that ship has sailed.

[AbyssStalker]

bard is already hugely powerful. that ship has sailed.

Multi-classing to another class is often far more attractive an option where power is concerned, due to more abilities that synchronize with one-another better than just being thrown on a bard. Some of the spells you can pick dwarf what the single abilities do if power is your want. The DMG says suggests somewhere in the back that it is possible to consider switching class abilities to better fit character concepts, so why not take it to the next logical step whenever a class has the ability to study another classes very magic itself (I wouldn't argue about power when bards can steal smites RAW), why would it be game-breaking to extend it to some abilities?

Last I heard 5e is still in circulation so it's worthwhile to discuss adjustments, ships sailing just fine, my good landlubber.

I would at least like to hear some specific reasoning as to why it would cause imbalance if we want to dismiss the notion entirely.

[rollingForInit]

Anything from the Rogue's list of abilities. Arcane Recover from the Wizard/Druid. A Fighting style, as you said.

[SharkForce]

i never said don't do it. i'm just saying that if you're worried about making bard more powerful than most other classes, well, that pretty much already happened. bards are already really really good, probably in the top 3 most powerful classes. now, 5e is in general close enough that the top 3 classes can still be played alongside the bottom 3 and everybody can feel useful, but still, bards already have more power crammed into the class than the majority of other classes.

[Once a Fool]

(I wouldn't argue about power when bards can steal smites RAW)

This difference in power between being able to steal a smite spell or being able to steal the ability to change any of your spell slots into a smite is also pretty huge.

If I were to consider something like this, I would limit it to level 1 abilities. And I would still be wary.

But mostly the super-powerful character-defining stuff starts happening at level 2 (action surge, smite, reckless attack, channel divinity, smite, cunning action, ki).

I think I could live with sneak attack at +1d6. Or a fighting style. Second Wind. Martial arts. Rage. Unarmored Defence. They'd probably be okay.

And, of course, any cantrips or spells picked up would be limited to 1 per Secret.

So, that's how I'd do it. But I'd still be wary.

[mephnick]

You'd have to be really careful and basically go through the entire class chapter of the book. Do you allow Uncanny Dodge? Probably shouldn't. Danger Sense? Yeah ok. Slow Fall? Tough call.

It'll be a lot of work, but you could probably compile a decent list that's not to powerful if you're careful. Even stuff like weapon styles can really step on the toes of the real martial classes.