Template Question

[SangoProduction]

So, in Savage Species, I was hoping to play a Feral Flamebrother (mostly because I'll never get another opportunity to play a monstrous race). You clearly don't have class levels before having the template applied to your character, so you have no natural armor to lose from applying the template. But then The Flamebrother gives "+7 natural armor". It doesn't explain what this means, nor whether it stacks (similarly with the "+2 [stat]"). So, does this stack, or does it override?

Also, how does the Slow flaw affect templates that add speed? Does the flaw apply only for the base creature, or is it always multiplying the speed, even if they have say Haste or something?

[MisterKaws]

-Untyped bonuses stack with anything except itself.

-Flaws are taken in the same order as feats, therefore, they apply after all inherited templates.

[SangoProduction]

-Untyped bonuses stack with anything except itself.

-Flaws are taken in the same order as feats, therefore, they apply after all inherited templates.

OK. Thanks. But isn't Natural Armor a type? Or am I mistaken?

[Ashtagon]

OK. Thanks. But isn't Natural Armor a type? Or am I mistaken?

Natural is indeed a type of bonus, but ne that typically only applies tio Armour Class, as in "+7 natural bonus to AC". It's most commonly found in animals and magical beasts, to reflect thick blubber, scales, or thick fur.

It will stack with manufactured armour (eg chainmail) which technically grants an "armour bonus to AC".

[MisterKaws]

OK. Thanks. But isn't Natural Armor a type? Or am I mistaken?

Natural Armor itself is a typed bonus, but what you asked was about a "+7 untyped bonus to natural armor", thus my answer.

[SangoProduction]

Natural is indeed a type of bonus, but ne that typically only applies tio Armour Class, as in "+7 natural bonus to AC". It's most commonly found in animals and magical beasts, to reflect thick blubber, scales, or thick fur.

It will stack with manufactured armour (eg chainmail) which technically grants an "armour bonus to AC".

So, does the +6 natural armor from Feral and the +7 natural armor from the flamebrother class stack or not?


Natural Armor itself is a typed bonus, but what you asked was about a "+7 untyped bonus to natural armor", thus my answer.

Ah, ok.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The feral template description says that you get "+6 natural armour or the base creature's [...], whichever is better". It's not an increase, it's a separate bonus. That means you'll have +6 NA from levels 1 to 4, then +7 after that.

[SangoProduction]

The feral template description says that you get "+6 natural armour or the base creature's [...], whichever is better". It's not an increase, it's a separate bonus. That means you'll have +6 NA from levels 1 to 4, then +7 after that.

But the base creature has no NA, when taken. So it continues to take whichever is better, even after it's taken?

[ExLibrisMortis]

But the base creature has no NA, when taken. So it continues to take whichever is better, even after it's taken?
The monster class says you have +7 NA at level 5. It doesn't say you gain +7 (as addition), and it doesn't say you get a +2 increase to your previous +5. The introductory text on monster classes explicitly says the number listed in the table is the total NA you have at that level. So - in the case of monster classes - yes.

Although arguably, that could mean you start with +6, then get +3 at level 1, +5 at level 3. That'd be a worst-case scenario, but probably RAW :smallmad:.

[SangoProduction]

The monster class says you have +7 NA at level 5. It doesn't say you gain +7 (as addition), and it doesn't say you get a +2 increase to your previous +5. The introductory text on monster classes explicitly says the number listed in the table is the total NA you have at that level. So - in the case of monster classes - yes.

Although arguably, that could mean you start with +6, then get +3 at level 1, +5 at level 3. That'd be a worst-case scenario, but probably RAW :smallmad:.

OK, thanks.

[MisterKaws]

Wait a minute, I just remembered, but you can't have a Feral Flamebrother. Flamebrothers are outsiders, Feral can only be applied to Monstrous/Humanoids.

[SangoProduction]

Wait a minute, I just remembered, but you can't have a Feral Flamebrother. Flamebrothers are outsiders, Feral can only be applied to Monstrous/Humanoids.

lol. Damn. Oh well.

[SangoProduction]

Also, you said the slow flaw counts against the creature's templates' speed, but what about classes? Like Monk, or like Dragon Adept or whatever it's called which gives fly speed?

[MisterKaws]

Also, you said the slow flaw counts against the creature's templates' speed, but what about classes? Like Monk, or like Dragon Adept or whatever it's called which gives fly speed?

Those are applied after flaws, so they remain unaltered, though I'm pretty sure that Dragonfire Adept gives fly speed based off land speed, so it's unaltered either way.

[SangoProduction]

Those are applied after flaws, so they remain unaltered, though I'm pretty sure that Dragonfire Adept gives fly speed based off land speed, so it's unaltered either way.

OK. Thanks. I was thinking of that DMG PRC that gives half-dragon...for 10 levels...lol. But I was only trying to think of an example, nothing more.