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SangoProduction
2015-12-31, 05:39 AM
Normally when you are out of the threatened area of a creature, they can't make an attack of opportunity on you. Does grapple change this in any way? (Say I was large [or larger], or took any of the reach-increasing feats, and now have a greater reach than them.) I can definitely see the argument of them being able make an attack of opportunity, because they fundamentally have to come in to reach to grapple you, but I want to see what you guys have to say.

Also, slightly related, if you have something like Feral Creature (template)'s Improved Grab, it says you automatically deal Claw Damage on grapple (or some creatures with Constrict, which deals tail slam damage on grapple), do you still get to attack with said weapons in the same turn as you automatically deal damage with them?

Khedrac
2016-01-01, 02:33 PM
OK, a creature attempting to grapple without the appropriate feats/abilities (or if the target has Close Quarters Fighting) provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the grapple.
However, creatures can only make AoOs on targets they threaten.
Therefore, by RAW, if the grappler is attacking from outside their target's reach, the AoO cannot be taken and is lost.

By RAW that's it.
However, my House-Rule (and I expect a common one) is that if the grappler is using a natural attack, that part of the attack is in the target's reach and is vulnerable to the AoO and thus it can be made.
The same applies to feats like Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit.
Of course, if the grapple is being made with a reach weapon then then the grappler may still be out of reach of the target - AoO still lost.

Damage on a grapple is rather more complex and I don't claim to understand the rules on that one. If you don't gte a good answer here ask again in the Simple Questions thread and Curmudgeon will explain it if no one else does.

Necroticplague
2016-01-01, 03:19 PM
Normally when you are out of the threatened area of a creature, they can't make an attack of opportunity on you. Does grapple change this in any way? (Say I was large [or larger], or took any of the reach-increasing feats, and now have a greater reach than them.) I can definitely see the argument of them being able make an attack of opportunity, because they fundamentally have to come in to reach to grapple you, but I want to see what you guys have to say.

Also, slightly related, if you have something like Feral Creature (template)'s Improved Grab, it says you automatically deal Claw Damage on grapple (or some creatures with Constrict, which deals tail slam damage on grapple), do you still get to attack with said weapons in the same turn as you automatically deal damage with them?

1. Grappling doesn't change the rules for AoOs. If your enemy is grappling you from outside your reach, you don't get to AoO them. Of course, eventually, the grappler will come to your space, but at that point, it's too late.

The order of event is touch attack (which provokes)->grapple check->Move into their space.

2.Yes, you can do that. Every time you win a grapple check, you deal the damage. This includes grapple checks to pin, grapple checks to inflict damage, grapple checks to stop them from escaping. Beast Strike could even let you double-dip for damage when you use a grapple check to damage. This is entirely separate from the ability to attack someone in a grapple with a weapon. Think of that portion of Improved Grab as a lesser version of Constrict.
That said, not sure why you'd want to. Making an attack requires beating their AC, while a grapple check to deal damage only requires winning a grapple check (and would trigger the claw damage, in addition to the damage of an unarmed strike).