DM's Tool: Declaring a Hit

[Raxs_Slayer]

Being a DM, I have had my fair share of experience with dealing with combat and trying to always make it feel exciting and interesting. You might not be that kind of DM playing with those kinds of players, some players just want to know if they hit or not with the simple declaration in the "You Hit" or "You Miss" format. But I know some players, (mine in particular) thrive in the description rich settings and combat encounters. They want to hear about every detail of their attack. So, to help other DMs out, here are a few tips and helpers with making Combat descriptions a little more exciting!

Parameters for a Hit

First off and most importantly, there is a very clear way to discern where a player's attack went. Did it hit the armour? Did it Hit the wall? or was is well, well off? There is an easy way to figure out it.

It involves understanding what makes up a character or monster's armour class. There are a lot of contributing factors; Armour, Dexterity, Missing entirely and Bonuses.

10 is always the default armour class. (Disregarding negative dexterity modifiers) if an attack ever falls under 10, it means the attacker missed the target entirely as result of its natural nimbleness in combat, regardless of the targets statistics. The next bit of AC comes from Dexterity, which is the target's ability to consciously avoid the attack, forcing it to miss as a result (Negative dexterity modifiers actually hinder the target's ability to move and hence, their AC drops. Lastly, Armour. Some attacks might strike the target's armour, but not penetrate it to an extent to deal damage.

Here is an example:

A Skeleton has an Armour class of "13". It has base AC of "10" just like every other creature or object in D&D. It has a Dexterity Modifier of "+2". This adds to the AC, making it "12". Lastly, it is wearing "Armour scraps". The lowest form of armour, giving it "+1" to AC. Leaving it with a fairly low "13". It's pretty easy to calculate exactly what contributes to AC isn't it? You always start with "Base" + "Dex" + "Armour". Let's see how the rolls play out.

Let's say our Rougue "Thenen" tries to attack. on his first attack he rolls "8". This falls between he 0-9 range, meaning he missed the skeleton completely, while adding flavour you might say "You flail your daggers in an undeceive manor, The skeleton barely had to move to avoid your attack". On his next turn he tries again, unfortunately rolling an "11". This falls within the Skeletons Dex bonus, meaning it dodged the attack. "The Skeleton dodges your attack with a nimble sideways stride". on his next turn he still unfortunately lands a "12", the single point which the Skeleton's armour is contributing, "Your knife slashes through the Skeletons leathery scrapped armour, stripping onto the tiles beneath you". Finally, his fourth attack exceeds the armour class with a solid "18", "You plunge your dagger into the skeleton, breaking off several rib bones and splintering the spine".

If you aren't a DM that likes sharing HP and AC of enemies in combat, this is an invaluable method as it shows players how close they are to landing attacks, and if you articulate well enough, how well there exceed or fall under them.

How to Articulate

This is a simple system I roughly keep in mind to show the player how their hits are affecting combat:

Minus values or plus values represent points above or below the Armour class.

Roll:
[1]: Humiliating description, involve a trip, slip or otherwise substantially hindering event.
[-5]: A Poor attempt to hit the target
[-4]: An undermined attempt
[-3]: A Fair, but missed hit
[-2]: A Near strike
[-1]: A Grazing swing
[0]: A Bare hit.
[+1]: A firm hit
[+2]: A Decisive strike
[+3]: An impressive attack
[+4]: An adjusted blow
[+5]: A pinpoint strike
[20]: Incredible combat feat

Try it with damage

This is another useful technique, but you'll be glad to hear; an easier one.

The percentages represent the rough maximum roll on a dice.

[0-25%]: A weakened hit
[26-50%]: A Stern strike
[51-75%]: A Forceful blow
[76-100%]: A Crippling drive

If you aren't big on telling your players the HP values of enemies for Role-play immersion, be sure to describe the foes conditions based on health.

[100-90%]: Unshaken by the fight.
[89-80%]: Still battling without restraint.
[79-60%]: Bruising is apparent.
[59-40%]: Cuts and wounds tear open.
[39-30]: Limbs are Limp, bones broken.
[29-20%]: Blood courses down the adversary.
[19-10]: Worn down, extremely shaken.
[9-1%]: Almost done to fight.

You'll obviously have to get more creative with Constructs and Undead, to replacing bruises with dents or chips and blood with missing body parts. But some foes might no have entirely distinguishable injuries (Like Ghosts, or Air Elementals), which should be a challenge for the players.

A good DM shouldn't constantly set players up with fights they will always just about pass. Be sure to throw is some easy, but some impossibles ones, to remind players to play smart. When an adversary too powerful rises, be sure to indicate its towering intimidation, make it sound more scary and powerful than they can deal with, and even say how much each attack affects the foe. A Beholder would likely brush off the most potent attacks of 4 level 3s, be sure they know that. Even throw is some "Set-Up" missed attacks, then describe how dramatically it damages the environment around it.

Hope all this information is useful (: Good lucks everyone.

[Tanarii]

Just because the roll is above the AC and hit point damage is done, doesn't mean there is an actual hit on the creature physically. Especially when it's monsters attacking PCs.

[Raxs_Slayer]

Just because the roll is above the AC and hit point damage is done, doesn't mean there is an actual hit on the creature physically. Especially when it's monsters attacking PCs.

I feel I read this correctly, but I really can't make sense of what you mean. If your roll was higher than the AC of any creature, and it physically dealt damage, or course it physically hit on the creature. That's why damage is dealt. If someone swings a Sword at you and it physically hits and hurts you, I think it's fairly safe to say it does make physical contact.

I might be missing something here, care to expand?

[Tanarii]

Hit points don't exclusively represent physical damage. A Rogue losing hit points may have actually evaded by dodging at the last second. A Fighter might manage to use his armor to turn the blow instead. A wizard might use magical forces to block it. But in all cases, they're a little more exhausted, can only do it so many times. That's one thing represented by Hit Points.

Rolling higher than AC and doing hit point damage doesn't necessarily mean physical damage was actually done. They can represent physical and mental exhaustion as well, depleted in staying alive avoiding blows that should have killed.

[Gignere]

I feel I read this correctly, but I really can't make sense of what you mean. If your roll was higher than the AC of any creature, and it physically dealt damage, or course it physically hit on the creature. That's why damage is dealt. If someone swings a Sword at you and it physically hits and hurts you, I think it's fairly safe to say it does make physical contact.

I might be missing something here, care to expand?

In D&D hp does not necessary mean physical damage. It can be fatigue, mental or physical that is why you can recover it with just a short rest. It's only until you drop to below 50% or whatever the DM deems reasonable it becomes actual physical damage.

Edit: ninjaed

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Hit points don't exclusively represent physical damage. A Rogue losing hit points may have actually evaded by dodging at the last second. A Fighter might manage to use his armor to turn the blow instead. A wizard might use magical forces to block it. But in all cases, they're a little more exhausted, can only do it so many times. That's one thing represented by Hit Points.

Rolling higher than AC and doing hit point damage doesn't necessarily mean physical damage was actually done. They can represent physical and mental exhaustion as well.

This so much this!

HP isn't just meat but a combination of meat, exhaustion, luck, and motivation.

Even Gary Gygax said as much and WotC extended this ideology with their games.

[Tanarii]

PHB page 196 puts it pretty succinctly:
"Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck. "

I've personally used a pretty simple baseline in games I run since 1e/BECMI days: only the first level hit points for a PC are the 'physical damage is real' hit points. Anything else is mental fortitude, skill and luck. If players want, sometimes that increases by Con bonus*level, so a 5th level with +2 Con would have (1 HD max + 10) as the 'real damage' threshold.

Other people I know like to do it like OotS ... any hit does some physical contact, even if it's just bruising you or minor cuts and wounds scuffing you up.

[Raxs_Slayer]

Hit points don't exclusively represent physical damage. A Rogue losing hit points may have actually evaded by dodging at the last second. A Fighter might manage to use his armor to turn the blow instead. A wizard might use magical forces to block it. But in all cases, they're a little more exhausted, can only do it so many times. That's one thing represented by Hit Points.

Rolling higher than AC and doing hit point damage doesn't necessarily mean physical damage was actually done. They can represent physical and mental exhaustion as well, depleted in staying alive avoiding blows that should have killed.

I think this might be a bit of personal elaboration of the rules. Which obviously is what D&D is all about, but I don't think it's a fair approach to actually challenge me on it when I play by the book. The Players handbook specifically states that "Whenever a creature takes "Damage", that "Damage" it is subtracted from it's hit points". I'm not exactly sure how getting hit by a Fireball, taking actual fire damage, (Burns and scolds) only translates to becoming tired, or mentally taxed.

The big clue is always right in the name "Hit" points, a representation of how many or how big or a "Hit" a creature can take. It's purely a simply a measure of how physically wounded a creature is.

I'm not sure that how a Rogue dodging a Fireball and taking "Fire" damage translates to being exhausted by the dodge. The damage they took was "Fire" Damage, from the Fireball.

This is all information that is written directly inside the rule books of 5e. Like I said, It's nice to add your own personal DM flavour to games with your players. But I play by the book. From which I can say "Hitpoints, DO exclusively represent damage". If you are Exhausted by something, there is a system called "Exhaustion" for that. If you are being mentally taxed to a point where it remove hit-points "Psychic damage".

I can't speak for what past D&D rules were like for this system, but my self-compulsive revision of the D&D 5E rules can leave me very confident to tell you what the base rules are in 5th.

[Raxs_Slayer]

PHB page 196 puts it pretty succinctly:
"Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck. "

I've personally used a pretty simple baseline in games I run since 1e/BECMI days: only the first level hit points for a PC are the 'physical damage is real' hit points. Anything else is mental fortitude, skill and luck. If players want, sometimes that increases by Con bonus*level, so a 5th level with +2 Con would have (1 HD max + 10) as the 'real damage' threshold.

Other people I know like to do it like OotS ... any hit does some physical contact, even if it's just bruising you or minor cuts and wounds scuffing you up.

I Think you'll find that is a reference to "Maximum Hitpoints". It's a system that implies how creatures can have such physically high tolerance to damage, that doesn't mean that don't actually take damage, It means they can take more damage than your average joe.

[Raxs_Slayer]

In D&D hp does not necessary mean physical damage. It can be fatigue, mental or physical that is why you can recover it with just a short rest. It's only until you drop to below 50% or whatever the DM deems reasonable it becomes actual physical damage.

Edit: ninjaed

If this is true, why does a player take "Fire" Damage when they git hit by a Fireball? Is it supposed to be Fire related trauma that damages players rather than real fire? How is it slashing damage if I never got hit by the weapon to start with? It doesn't make an awful lot of sense. And the reason players can recover from all of their injuries through a few hours of rest is mostly because it is a game with barely any strict correspondence to how injuries actually affect people in real life.

The Rules constantly refer to these forms of infliction of damage. Exhaustion and Mental taxation are all apart of their own individual systems. "Mental Durability" Is likely a reflection of "Phychic" damage, an actual system explained in the book. All of these things tie in to other systems, most of what is going around now feels like a lot of speculation.

[Theodoxus]

Leaving the 'what are HP' discussion, back to your OP... I don't elaborate/eludiate/or expound upon combat when I DM - for 1) it takes too long as it is, and 2) ain't nobody got time to verify that Johnny just struck mob 13 out of 17 which happens to be cursed and his AC has dropped 1 point since the start of the encounter, so now his 'solid hit' is just a 'regular hit' or somesuch.

Thankfully, my players don't care about flowery speech in their combats. We save that for the RP portion of the game.

The closest I ever come to such is if someone asks what a particular mobs condition is. I might wax poetic there, maybe. Though 'bloodied'/'not bloodied' is more typical.

But have fun with your colorful combats :)

[Addaran]

10 is always the default armour class. (Disregarding negative dexterity modifiers) if an attack ever falls under 10, it means the attacker missed the target entirely, regardless of the targets statistics. The next bit of AC comes from Dexterity, which is the target's ability to avoid the attack, forcing it to miss as a result (Negative dexterity modifiers actually hinder the target's ability to move and hence, their AC drops.

Let's say our Rougue "Thenen" tries to attack. on his first attack he rolls "8". This falls between he 0-9 range, meaning he missed the skeleton completely, while adding flavour you might say "You flail your daggers in an undeceive manor, The skeleton didn't even have to deliberately move to avoid your attack".


I'd say the point of "misses so badly the enemy doesn't even have to move" is 5 AC. A totally immobile target would be at 0 dex, so -5 modifier. If you take the commoner with 10 in all stats, no proficiency and unarmored for exemple. While he's fighting, he'll obvious try to dodge blows, even if he only have 10 AC. And if he's trying to hit a dummy in front of him, he should have way better then half chance of hitting.

[Tanarii]

I Think you'll find that is a reference to "Maximum Hitpoints". It's a system that implies how creatures can have such physically high tolerance to damage, that doesn't mean that don't actually take damage, It means they can take more damage than your average joe.
It's in reference to hit points in general. It's RAW in the PHB and Basic Guide. Feel free to go read for yourself.

This has been an explicit function of hit points since 1e, and it remains in 5e. The degree of 'physical damage' vs 'mental fortitude, the will to live, and luck' is up to the DM & Players to determine of course.

[Raxs_Slayer]

Leaving the 'what are HP' discussion, back to your OP... I don't elaborate/eludiate/or expound upon combat when I DM - for 1) it takes too long as it is, and 2) ain't nobody got time to verify that Johnny just struck mob 13 out of 17 which happens to be cursed and his AC has dropped 1 point since the start of the encounter, so now his 'solid hit' is just a 'regular hit' or somesuch.

Thankfully, my players don't care about flowery speech in their combats. We save that for the RP portion of the game.

The closest I ever come to such is if someone asks what a particular mobs condition is. I might wax poetic there, maybe. Though 'bloodied'/'not bloodied' is more typical.

But have fun with your colorful combats :)

You must have pretty fluid combat. I find my regular players much more thrilled by the details of the fight, whereas when I play with my Siblings, they are much more interested in the whole Just:Hit/Miss routine. I quite like working with either, but It really can be a pain a first when you're fumbling through your mind for vocabulary while my Fighter gleefully awaits to see exactly how far in to the Gut of the Ogre his sword penetrated. Haha. Just hoping to lend a hand to DMs in my position.

[Raxs_Slayer]

It's in reference to hit points in general. It's RAW in the PHB and Basic Guide. Feel free to go read for yourself.

This has been an explicit function of hit points since 1e, and it remains in 5e. The degree of 'physical damage' vs 'mental fortitude, the will to live, and luck' is up to the DM & Players to determine of course.

Like I say, this may have been a more secure concept in 1e-4e. But no actual "Details" are present in 5e. I read the book very frequently and am very much assured on what the rules are. In that one line they seem to have implied a potential leeway to integrate old D&D rules, but I use mine fresh from the PHB. So, with just that one insignificant line and not a single detail or explanation as you have given, I feel like I am going to be more inclined to follow the masses of explanation on what physical damage is in 5e that follows. Thanks.

[Tanarii]

I just quoted the PHB description of Hit Points to you. It's the very first thing the PHB says in the section called Hit Points. It's not insignificant. It tells you what they are, right out the gate.

Edit: if you don't want to use them for anything other than physical damage, that's on you. But don't try to tell me it's not what the PHB says.

[Raxs_Slayer]

I'd say the point of "misses so badly the enemy doesn't even have to move" is 5 AC. A totally immobile target would be at 0 dex, so -5 modifier. If you take the commoner with 10 in all stats, no proficiency and unarmored for exemple. While he's fighting, he'll obvious try to dodge blows, even if he only have 10 AC. And if he's trying to hit a dummy in front of him, he should have way better then half chance of hitting.

That's a good point. Will fix that. Rolls under 5 should be complete misses, but perhaps not 10. Thanks.

[Raxs_Slayer]

I just quoted the PHB description of Hit Points to you. It's the very first thing the PHB says in the section called Hit Points. It's not insignificant. It tells you what they are, right out the gate.

Basically all features in D&D have a bit of flavour text before the actual details. That doesn't mean anything mechanically, it's simply something to inspire your imagination. I get the same impression from this introduction of HP. It is followed by an explanation of how hitpoints function mechanically (As they do with class features, Which I am sure you have read). It doesn't mention, ever, that being hit by an attack doesn't necessarily mean you weren't hit. It just refers to being hit a "Taking Damage". Damage simply being a mortal infliction. I looked at the 4E character sheets and they seem much more equipped for options with what you are explaining to me. Fortitude, AC, Will Power and Ref (I'm not really sure what Ref is to be entirely honest, but they all seem to be formatted in the same way), so I can only assume they have relevance to each other, which sounds a lot more like what you describe, rather than any actual system Detailed in 5e.

[Magic Myrmidon]

I know that the terminology suggests getting stabbed 12 times during a fight, and it doesn't matter. Which I feel is honestly just an unfortunate usage of language. If HP consists solely of physical damage, how do you represent the psychic damage that you mentioned earlier? That's all purely mental, suggesting maybe headaches, a suppression of the will to fight, or a psychic taking over of a personality or something. Alternatively, radiant damage. What is radiant damage, even? Are you blinding the opponent briefly, making it harder for them to see the attacks so they can dodge them? Searing them with light? How is that not fire?

D&D is full of abstractions, and HP is one of them. I like this abstraction, especially BECAUSE it allows me to describe the cool things that happen in combat. Getting to the main topic at hand, I do like the suggestions you make, as a rule of thumb. Wouldn't want to slow down the game to use it verbatim, but just as a thing to keep in the back of my mind, I like it.

[Ruslan]

10 is always the default armour class. (Disregarding negative dexterity modifiers) if an attack ever falls under 10, it means the attacker missed the target entirely as result of its natural nimbleness in combat, regardless of the targets statistics. The next bit of AC comes from Dexterity, which is the target's ability to consciously avoid the attack, forcing it to miss as a result (Negative dexterity modifiers actually hinder the target's ability to move and hence, their AC drops. Lastly, Armour. Some attacks might strike the target's armour, but not penetrate it to an extent to deal damage.

That's pretty good, but a couple of additions:

The default armor class is in fact 5, not 10. It's the armor class of something with Dex 0, ie. not dodging at all. A dex modifier of +0 indicates an average dexterity, someone who's dodging to avoid the blows, but not doing it exceptionally well. And also, between Dex and Armor, is Shield.

So, let's say, vs. an enemy with average Dex, studded leather, and shield.

AC 5 or less = total miss
AC 6 to 9 = enemy maneuvers away from the attack
AC 10 to 11 = enemy deflects with shield
AC 12 to 13 = enemy's armor stops the hit
AC 14 or higher = hit

[mgshamster]

It has base AC of "10" just like every other creature or object in D&D. It has a Dexterity Modifier of "+2". This adds to the AC, making it "12". Lastly, it is wearing "Armour scraps". The lowest form of armour, giving it "+1" to AC. Leaving it with a fairly low "13". It's pretty easy to calculate exactly what contributes to AC isn't it? You always start with "Base" + "Dex" + "Armour". Let's see how the rolls play out.

A bit of a nitpick, but you have the order of adding AC wrong. In 5e, armor doesn't add to your base AC, instead it changes your base AC to a new value.

For example, chainmail doesn't give you +3 AC, but rather changed your base AC from 10 to 13. Then you add your dex modifier (maximum +2).

The equation of Base + Dex + Armor is no longer valid. It's now Base + Dex, where your armor determines the base.

Our skeleton has a base AC of 11, and +2 dex for a total AC of 13.

I don't think this changes your recommendations (which are excellent), but it is a change in how the rules look at armor class.

[MaxWilson]

If this is true, why does a player take "Fire" Damage when they git hit by a Fireball? Is it supposed to be Fire related trauma that damages players rather than real fire? How is it slashing damage if I never got hit by the weapon to start with? It doesn't make an awful lot of sense. And the reason players can recover from all of their injuries through a few hours of rest is mostly because it is a game with barely any strict correspondence to how injuries actually affect people in real life.

The Rules constantly refer to these forms of infliction of damage. Exhaustion and Mental taxation are all apart of their own individual systems. "Mental Durability" Is likely a reflection of "Phychic" damage, an actual system explained in the book. All of these things tie in to other systems, most of what is going around now feels like a lot of speculation.

Uh oh, looks like you're getting sucked into a "What are HP" discussion. Next time you can head this off by saying in the OP something like "All of this is intended to be useful to those who view HP as injury. If you like your HP to represent karma/exhaustion/luck/etc., please skip this thread."

Anyway, the OP was interesting, thanks for writing it.

[Malifice]

I feel I read this correctly, but I really can't make sense of what you mean. If your roll was higher than the AC of any creature, and it physically dealt damage, or course it physically hit on the creature. That's why damage is dealt. If someone swings a Sword at you and it physically hits and hurts you, I think it's fairly safe to say it does make physical contact.

I might be missing something here, care to expand?

Nah man, a 'hit' on the attack roll isn't necessarily an actual physical hit.

Hit points in DnD represent luck, resolve and combat experience (skill at parrying, dodging etc) as much as (arguably more than) actual physical toughness.

They also represent a form of plot armour. The thing that keeps the heroes alive while the redshirts around them die.

A 20th level fighter dies from a stab in the belly as fast as a 1st level fighter does. The higher level guy is just better at dodging at the last minute (losing hit points) parrying the blow (losing hit points) the attack glancing off armor (losing hit points) etc

Hit points are not 'meat' and getting 'hit' on an attack roll doesn't mean you were necessarily physically struck at all.

[Talakeal]

So the other day I walked up to the party cleric and asked him to cast a heal spell on me. He said "But you aren't hurt, you look fine." And I said, "Yeah, I know, but there were a couple of near misses in that last fight and I just don't feel quite as lucky anymore," and he replied "Oh, right, happens all the time. Let me cure that luck for you. One heal spell coming right up!"

[Malifice]

So the other day I walked up to the party cleric and asked him to cast a heal spell on me. He said "But you aren't hurt, you look fine." And I said, "Yeah, I know, but there were a couple of near misses in that last fight and I just don't feel quite as lucky anymore," and he replied "Oh, right, happens all the time. Let me cure that luck for you. One heal spell coming right up!"

By RAW a creature with over 50 percent of its HP left shows no sign of injury at all. Under 50 percent it might have a few minor bruises and cuts.

Cure Wounds spell restores 'Hit points'. 'Hit points' are expressly defined as 'luck, resolve, the will to live, health and combat experience'.

Think of 'cure wounds' as a positive energy 'pick me up' as much of a 'wound closer'.

Magical smelling salts in addition to a magical bandage.

[Talakeal]

By RAW a creature with over 50 percent of its HP left shows no sign of injury at all. Under 50 percent it might have a few minor bruises and cuts.

Is that actually RAW? Because that is even dumber, it means that if I have 20 hit points I am literally incapable of being injured by attacks that deal less than ten points of damage and would be unable to, say, slit my palm to seal a deal in blood, without beai myself half to dea first.

[MaxWilson]

By RAW a creature with over 50 percent of its HP left shows no sign of injury at all. Under 50 percent it might have a few minor bruises and cuts.

False. Re-read PHB 196. Pay attention to the qualifier "typically" and the context in which it occurs. By RAW, it depends on the dungeon master's preference.

================================================== ====


Is that actually RAW? Because that is even dumber, it means that if I have 20 hit points I am literally incapable of being injured by attacks that deal less than ten points of damage and would be unable to, say, slit my palm to seal a deal in blood, without beai myself half to dea first.

No, it's not RAW. RAW is for rules. Malifice is misquoting a sidebar about how the DM can choose to describe the effects of injury. Even if it were a rule, and it's not, he's still misrepresenting what it says.

[djreynolds]

Hit points are more than just meat

Its a really good saying. But DMs, at least for big battles, need to have some nice adjectives laying around to use.

And the other reason is this, that hit points are more than physical. If I were to be knocked down to 50% physical health, it should than affect my attack stats and all that as well. Donate some blood, and you will be tired. Donate 2-3 liters? That's half for a 150lb man.

[Malifice]

Is that actually RAW? Because that is even dumber, it means that if I have 20 hit points I am literally incapable of being injured by attacks that deal less than ten points of damage and would be unable to, say, slit my palm to seal a deal in blood, without beai myself half to dea first.

Of course you can cut your own hand and bleed.

Do you need rules for this?

[djreynolds]

It is the "suspension of disbelief" right?

How do you explain a 20th character with one hit point, still swinging his sword for +11 to hit?

I mean, you cannot equate it to real life.

What does 1/10th hit points represent? You are eviscerated.

You're not running around at 1/10th hit points, eviscerated, holding your guts in your helmet while you swing a sword. Eviscerated means you are on the floor, out of commission.

You folks are of course able to implement the rules as you see fit and run your game as you want. But if hit points are all physical, then at 50% hits points your proficiency bonus should be halved? Shouldn't it?

Good discussion. Happy New Year

[BW022]

A typical combat last say 15 rounds and with 4 PCs vs. 10 monsters... can easily require 150 to 200 rolls, saves, and skill checks during combat. While I love descriptive text, describing each would be impossibly time consuming, tediously tedious, and more likely to take them 'out of character' as it would quickly become a meta-gaming exercise in standard descriptions of AC, dexterity, remaining hit points, etc.

I only describe rolls in detail if...

1. It is an extremely dramatic moment. A final kill of a key NPC, a PC is trying something insanely unique or difficult -- targeting a rope bridge.

2. It imparts key information which PCs may or may not notice -- damage reduction, extremely high AC, they are hitting an illusion, an opponent is severely injured, a spell or effect didn't do what the PCs might expect, an unknown magical sword is suddenly hitting, regeneration, etc.

Otherwise... no real need to try to slow the game down. Given even a small percentage of 150+ rolls even in one combat... it is almost impossible to give consistent and meaningful responses without some table which equates directly into meta-gaming.

[Talakeal]

Of course you can cut your own hand and bleed.

Do you need rules for this?

No, but if RAW is that you cant show any signs of injury above 50 percent doing so,would directly contradict the written rules.

[MaxWilson]

It is the "suspension of disbelief" right?

How do you explain a 20th character with one hit point, still swinging his sword for +11 to hit?

I mean, you cannot equate it to real life.

What does 1/10th hit points represent? You are eviscerated.

You're not running around at 1/10th hit points, eviscerated, holding your guts in your helmet while you swing a sword. Eviscerated means you are on the floor, out of commission.

You folks are of course able to implement the rules as you see fit and run your game as you want. But if hit points are all physical, then at 50% hits points your proficiency bonus should be halved? Shouldn't it?

Good discussion. Happy New Year

D&D characters are tough and can function while eviscerated. This is clearly implied by the rules, and it works just fine. Furthermore, switching to "HP as karma" doesn't solve the problem, because if dropping to 0 HP means "now someone finally hits you and you're eviscerated" but then a single bonus action from the Fast Hands Healer Thief gives you back 1 HP... what just happened? You're still eviscerated but now you have a bandage and full proficiency bonus, even though the DM narrates HP loss above 0 HP as "near misses" and "using up luck."

Narrating HP loss as usage luck instead of injury solves nothing at all.

The inescapable conclusion is that D&D characters simply don't weaken when injured. This isn't even all that hard to imagine, since it's exactly how most Hollywood films portray injuries in any case, whether it's for heroes like retired police detectives or psycho villains like Freddie Krueger.

You can chalk it up to narrative logic, or you can chalk it up to magic, or you can chalk it up to the same fantasy physics which makes gravity in D&D be binary (it's either 0g or 1g) instead of proportional to mass like in real life. I do the latter. My D&D characters aren't even made out of cells and elements--they're made out of a continuous mass of infinitely-divisible "flesh" substance, akin to Aristotle's view of matter. D&D isn't real life, y'all.

[choryukami]

Is the OP suggesting that my 15th level bard can be shot through his body about 15 times and still be fine?

I think it's more likely he's gotten incredibly skilled at dodging and has a lot of endurance from his years of combat experience.

[MaxWilson]

Is the OP suggesting that my 15th level bard can be shot through his body about 15 times and still be fine?

Yes. Clearly.

If you don't like that, narrate it a different way, but the OP's method is valid.

[Tanarii]

It is. I was objecting that it's not the only way, to describe loss of hit points as physical contact. But it's a valid way. DMs and players can choose to describe most damage as some kind of in-game contact, even if it's only a scrape or bruise. The part of the PHB I quoted doesn't exclude choosing to do that. It just means it's not the only way to do it.

For physical attacks of course. Mental (psychic damage) most likely wouldn't.

[Malifice]

D&D characters are tough and can function while eviscerated. This is clearly implied by the rules, and it works just fine.

No, its not. Seing as HP are defined as being expressly resolve, the will to live, combat experience and luck (as well as health) im not sure where youre getting this implication from?

[MaxWilson]

No, its not. Seing as HP are defined as being expressly resolve, the will to live, combat experience and luck (as well as health) im not sure where youre getting this implication from?

See the first paragraph of post #33 for one example, right after the part you quoted. Even for those who believe in HP as karma, after you've actually been eviscerated down to 0 HP, all it takes is six seconds of non-magical attention from a Healer and you're back on your feet and functioning at full effectiveness. The conclusion is inescapable: no matter how you view HP, D&D characters can function fine after evisceration.

To put it slightly differently, performance degradation due to injury is not a thing, unless you bring in variants like Lingering Injuries.

[Malifice]

See the first paragraph of post #33 for one example, right after the part you quoted. Even for those who believe in HP as karma, after you've actually been eviscerated down to 0 HP, all it takes is six seconds of non-magical attention from a Healer and you're back on your feet and functioning at full effectiveness. The conclusion is inescapable: no matter how you view HP, D&D characters can function fine after evisceration.

To put it slightly differently, performance degradation due to injury is not a thing, unless you bring in variants like Lingering Injuries.

What? Where on earth is it mentioned (or even inferred) anywhere in the rules that getting dropped to 0 HP = enviceration?

Evisceration is the literal removal of a creatures internal organs. Its literally disembowelment.

Even the optional lingering injuries chart doesnt go that far.

[djreynolds]

I think the OP may want to look into using Lingering Injuries Variant, if he wants hit points as meat.

I prefer hit points as a sum of many things, otherwise you're left with question marks. Hit points are muscle, luck, endurance, experience, etc. Otherwise, it is real tough to keep up the "fantasy" when someone has been dropped to zero hit points, by whatever, and gets healed for 5 hit points and can swing a sword like nothing has happened.

But I do love the OPs flavor. I like it when someone hits hard and that DM is giving out cool visuals.

Its just how we all interpret the game differently. For me, I like the saying hit points are more than just meat, this way I do not have to answer just how bad someone was hurt when he is hit hard by critical hit smite that dropped him to 1/4th of his hit points and how he is still functioning at 100%.

[Tanarii]

Yeah, I like the flavor too. I ran the OPs system in 3e. Touch attacks and flat-footed made it natural to go that route already anyway.

I ended up ditching it, and going with a much simpler variant. It's way too much bookkeeping to figure out exactly what caused a miss on every blow.

My simple variant was a miss by 1-2 points was a shield block (if used), a 6-10 on the die was a basic dodge (assuming it missed), and everything else was either armor or an agile dodge or a magic block. Depending on if the character/monster was primarily Armored, Agile or Magical.

Besides, if you make too flowery descriptions of every attack made, that slows down combat appreciably. "He blocks your swing with his shield" or "It bounces off his armor" is sufficient for most combats. Followed by "Jim, it's your turn." IMO combat rounds shouldn't be taking more than about 10-20 seconds apiece, and only that long at high levels for complex spells & attacks. Otherwise you lose pacing and tension. Narrating at length exactly how an attack is made or a blow misses ends up reducing tension, not increasing it.

[mephnick]

I ended up ditching it, and going with a much simpler variant. It's way too much bookkeeping to figure out exactly what caused a miss on every blow.

Did the same thing. Had a little table made up that outlined "11-14 AC is the armor, 15-16 AC is because of the shield etc" for each character.

It lasted half a combat. Now it's just "Near miss is blocked by shield or bounces off armour. Decent miss is a dodge. Horrible roll is a whiff."

I don't think anyone noticed.

[Tanarii]

I will say, letting the players know when they got a near miss/hit (1-2 points either side), or a monster makes a near save/failure (1-2 points either side) is gives them a nice little freebie about a creatures mechanical information. Some players appreciate that kind of thing.

As well as tending to increase tension. ;)

[MaxWilson]

I think the OP may want to look into using Lingering Injuries Variant, if he wants hit points as meat.

Lingering Injuries probably works better for HP-as-luck-ists, because for those guys, getting dropped to 0 HP and therefore getting injured is a rare and important occurrence fitting of a lasting injury. For many HP-as-meat-ists, either fantasy biology or movie conventions apply, and their PCs are expected to shrug off actual injury, ergo Lingering Injuries is inappropriate.

Case in point from your own post:


I prefer hit points as a sum of many things, otherwise you're left with question marks. Hit points are muscle, luck, endurance, experience, etc. Otherwise, it is real tough to keep up the "fantasy" when someone has been dropped to zero hit points, by whatever, and gets healed for 5 hit points and can swing a sword like nothing has happened.

You're describing a "HP as luck" scenario which is incoherent without Lingering Injuries. HP as meat isn't even involved in this paragraph; the paradox comes from relying on HP as luck.

[Tanarii]

Why does hit points dropping to 0 have to indicate some kind of grave wound? I mean, I can see that if the character fails three checks in a row and dies, then yeah it was a fatal wound. But if a bandage got them up, or they stabilized on their own, "obviously" it wasn't a grave wound in the first place. Especially if there aren't any lingering injuries. Lingering Injuries to me indicate you're a 'HP=meat'-ist

The other way around is just inconsistent. :p

"Obviously" in quotes because clearly it's not obvious. ;)

[MaxWilson]

Why does hit points dropping to 0 have to indicate some kind of grave wound? I mean, I can see that if the character fails three checks in a row and dies, then yeah it was a fatal wound. But if a bandage got them up, or they stabilized on their own, "obviously" it wasn't a grave wound in the first place. Especially if there aren't any lingering injuries. Lingering Injuries to me indicate you're a 'HP=meat'-ist

The other way around is just inconsistent. :p

"Obviously" in quotes because clearly it's not obvious. ;)

So now it's a Schrodinger wound that might be a stab to the heart and might be just an arm scratch, and you don't know which until someone tries to bandage it? I haven't heard of anyone running things that way and being satisfied with it, but YMMV.

Oh well. I'm not a HP-as-luck-ist, so run it any way you like.

HP-as-actual-life-force works just fine for me. And more importantly, the OP is useful to me because of that paradigm.

==============================================

I *do* find it kind of weird that so many people want to describe failed attack as "dodged" instead of "parried". Parrying a blow so that it is robbed of enough force to obliquely skid off a section of armor without damaging anything is a great way to describe a miss, and also a good way to use armor in a fight.

"I attack!" [rolls: 11]

"You swing for the orc's chieftain's head but he nudges your blade slightly and your greatsword skids off his pauldrons."

"I cut his legs out from under him." [rolls 7]

"He parries your blade into the ground."

"I step back slightly, raise my point again, and stab him in the throat." [rolls 18]

"He tries to parry but you disengage around and stab him in the chest, right around his collar bone."

[Tanarii]

So now it's a Schrodinger wound that might be a stab to the heart and might be just an arm scratch, and you don't know which until someone tries to bandage it? I haven't heard of anyone running things that way and being satisfied with it, but YMMV.Yup. Because wounds are abstract. If a character dies, clearly it was a bad wound. If not and they're brough to standing by non-magical means, clearly they were stunned. There's no need to go into which one, a specific level of detail, unless you want to. I usually don't bother with detailing major wounds unless someone dies.

Now obviously if you choose to describe the wound, or the reason for unconsciousness, in some kind of detail, you're going to have to decide why an eviserated or concussed hero can be brought back to standing by a 6-second bandage job without any short or long term consequences.

[JoeJ]

So now it's a Schrodinger wound that might be a stab to the heart and might be just an arm scratch, and you don't know which until someone tries to bandage it? I haven't heard of anyone running things that way and being satisfied with it, but YMMV.

It's a very cinematic way of running it. The hero gets hit and goes down, but until somebody takes a moment to go to them you don't know whether it's a major injury or just a flesh wound.

[Malifice]

So now it's a Schrodinger wound that might be a stab to the heart and might be just an arm scratch, and you don't know which until someone tries to bandage it? I haven't heard of anyone running things that way and being satisfied with it, but YMMV.

Oh well. I'm not a HP-as-luck-ist, so run it any way you like.

HP-as-actual-life-force works just fine for me. And more importantly, the OP is useful to me because of that paradigm.

==============================================

I *do* find it kind of weird that so many people want to describe failed attack as "dodged" instead of "parried". Parrying a blow so that it is robbed of enough force to obliquely skid off a section of armor without damaging anything is a great way to describe a miss, and also a good way to use armor in a fight.

"I attack!" [rolls: 11]

"You swing for the orc's chieftain's head but he nudges your blade slightly and your greatsword skids off his pauldrons."

"I cut his legs out from under him." [rolls 7]

"He parries your blade into the ground."

"I step back slightly, raise my point again, and stab him in the throat." [rolls 18]

"He tries to parry but you disengage around and stab him in the chest, right around his collar bone."

Its more like this:

Harry the 20th level Fighter and Bob, his 4th level Fighter sidekick are facing down two Fire giants. Harry has 180 hit points. Bob has 30.

The Fire giants wins initiative. Giant 1 swings at Harry and rolls... a natural 20! After rolling critical damage it deals a total of 60 points of damage to Harry. Narrated as:


'The Giant swings its massive 2 ton greatsword, and summoning all your experience and wiles, at the last minute - as if in bullet time - you manage to dodge backwards and avoid a blow that would have felled a lesser man 10 times over. The sword smashes into the nearby wall, as you spring forward, a steely look of determination in your eyes'

The same giant swings at Harry again, getting a 5. It misses. Narrated as:


'The creature places its foot on the wall, and draws the weapon out, clumsily thrusting it forward at you; wary that it may have understimated the challenge you pose. You roll under the blade with ease, using your shield as a ramp to push the giant off balance, enabling you to better launch a counter attack. You spring upwards like a pouncing lion, your sword aimed for its neck. A look of fear crosses its eyes...'

Fire giant number 2 then rolls to hit Bob, getting a total of 19 - a hit! Rolling damage against Bob, it generates 29 points of damage, reducing Bob to just 1 HP. Narrated as:


Observing the ease with which your mentor deals with his foe, you press your attack on the giant. It sneers as you approach and with a mighty roar, the beast swings its weapon downwards towards you in a massive arc.; You attempt to clumsily mimic Harrys manouver and sidestep the blow. Your lack of experience tells. The weapon narrowly misses you, but the impact knocks you off your feet. The Giant twists its wrist and casually flicks you aside with the blade - your plate armor offers little protection and is deeply scored, the pain of the blow has you seeing stars. Staggering to your feet, you struggle to stay conscious.'

The Giant attacks Bob again; rolling... a 12. Another hit! Rolling damage generates 34 points of damage. Enough to reduce poor Bob to 0 and also more damage is left over than his max HP total... Narrated as:


'As you clamber to your feet, you look up just in time to see the blade arcing through the air and about to crash into your side. The beasts have the speed to match their strength! Insitinctively you raise your sword to parry the blow, just as you would any other opponent. But this no ordinary opponent. The 2 ton razor sharp sword crashes into your own weapon, cleaving it in twain like butter. It carries on its deadly arc, and you suddenly... feel numb. For a split second you feel oddly elated; the weapon missed... a miracle - Kord be praised! Then the searing pain hits, followed blissfully by the numbness. You fall forward bisected in two pieces, neatly hewn in half by the massive blade. Your last living memory is the booming laugh of your killer, and a scream of vengance from a familiar voice that already sounds very distant...'

I dont need a chart to describe my battles. Just an imagination.

[georgie_leech]

Its more like this:

Harry the 20th level Fighter and Bob, his 4th level Fighter sidekick are facing down two Fire giants. Harry has 180 hit points. Bob has 30.

The Fire giants wins initiative. Giant 1 swings at Harry and rolls... a natural 20! After rolling critical damage it deals a total of 60 points of damage to Harry. Narrated as:


'The Giant swings its massive 2 ton greatsword, and summoning all your experience and wiles, at the last minute - as if in bullet time - you manage to dodge backwards and avoid a blow that would have felled a lesser man 10 times over. The sword smashes into the nearby wall, as you spring forward, a steely look of determination in your eyes'

The same giant swings at Harry again, getting a 5. It misses. Narrated as:


'The creature places its foot on the wall, and draws the weapon out, clumsily thrusting it forward at you; wary that it may have understimated the challenge you pose. You roll under the blade with ease, using your shield as a ramp to push the giant off balance, enabling you to better launch a counter attack. You spring upwards like a pouncing lion, your sword aimed for its neck. A look of fear crosses its eyes...'

Fire giant number 2 then rolls to hit Bob, getting a total of 19 - a hit! Rolling damage against Bob, it generates 29 points of damage, reducing Bob to just 1 HP. Narrated as:


Observing the ease with which your mentor deals with his foe, you press your attack on the giant. It sneers as you approach and with a mighty roar, the beast swings its weapon downwards towards you in a massive arc.; You attempt to clumsily mimic Harrys manouver and sidestep the blow. Your lack of experience tells. The weapon narrowly misses you, but the impact knocks you off your feet. The Giant twists its wrist and casually flicks you aside with the blade - your plate armor offers little protection and is deeply scored, the pain of the blow has you seeing stars. Staggering to your feet, you struggle to stay conscious.'

The Giant attacks Bob again; rolling... a 12. Another hit! Rolling damage generates 34 points of damage. Enough to reduce poor Bob to 0 and also more damage is left over than his max HP total... Narrated as:


'As you clamber to your feet, you look up just in time to see the blade arcing through the air and about to crash into your side. The beasts have the speed to match their strength! Insitinctively you raise your sword to parry the blow, just as you would any other opponent. But this no ordinary opponent. The 2 ton razor sharp sword crashes into your own weapon, cleaving it in twain like butter. It carries on its deadly arc, and you suddenly... feel numb. For a split second you feel oddly elated; the weapon missed... a miracle - Kord be praised! Then the searing pain hits, followed blissfully by the numbness. You fall forward bisected in two pieces, neatly hewn in half by the massive blade. Your last living memory is the booming laugh of your killer, and a scream of vengance from a familiar voice that already sounds very distant...'

I dont need a chart to describe my battles. Just an imagination.

Alright, blows that are immediately lethal are lethal. I don't think that was ever in question. Now say that the first hit did just 1 more, 30, reducing him to 0, rendering him unconscious and forcing Death Saves. Say that he fails those saves; clearly that was a mortal injury that killed him. But say Harry, knowing how overconfident students can be, has the Healer feat, and instead of letting him make those Death Saves stabilizes him and returns one HP, bringing him back to 1 hp. Suddenly Bob is back on his fight and runs back at full speed, and when he gets 60 feet away starts chucking javelins like Harry taught him to when fighting something this far out of his experience. He's just as accurate and powerful with them as he would have if been if he hadn't been almost killed. What did Harry just do to turn that potentially lethal wound into something that doesn't even impact Bob's ability to attack or maneuver? Neither HP as Meat nor HP as Luck+Experience+Plot Armor+Meat can really handle lethal blows not impacting your ability to fight, so it must not have been lethal, except we know that this would have killed him if Harry hadn't intervened, so it must be. Ultimately, D&D HP doesn't really have a perfect, non-gamist explanation.

[djreynolds]

To me, and feel free to disagree, hit points come from a big pool of everything. Two human beings in real life have roughly the same stuff in them, blood, bone, etc.

But how is one to explain in game, how my fireball killed half the orcs and yet this dumb kobold is standing, and his goblin buddy and this nasty orc with a broken tusk are left.
The orc with broken tusk is a veteran of many battles, chock full of experience and that certain something the French call, "I don't know what", the goblin evaded it, the kobold had a resistance to it, whatever. But the whatever has to be included to keep up the suspension of disbelief, because I am a real person and I know what "bad" looks like and no 1st level cure wound spell is fixing that. And I know that a private and a captain, though in D&D could have 50 hit point difference, in real life have the same hit points, the same meat so to speak. How do I explain to a 12 year old I'm playing with that the landslide didn't kill private when it killed the captain or vice versa in a metaphysical manner? How do explain that an 18th level champion is still standing with 1 hit point if we are assuming his hit points are just physical meat and bones, and next turn he's back up to 10 hit points?

And so hit points have to be everything, have to be whatever, otherwise my own life experience is going to tell me that is impossible and then "illusion" is poof. In real life, a guy with 1 hit point is in surgery with his chest clam shelled wide open and sodium bicarbonate, a last ditch attempt, is being pushed and someone is massaging his heart.

[Malifice]

Alright, blows that are immediately lethal are lethal. I don't think that was ever in question. Now say that the first hit did just 1 more, 30, reducing him to 0, rendering him unconscious and forcing Death Saves. Say that he fails those saves; clearly that was a mortal injury that killed him. But say Harry, knowing how overconfident students can be, has the Healer feat, and instead of letting him make those Death Saves stabilizes him and returns one HP, bringing him back to 1 hp. Suddenly Bob is back on his fight and runs back at full speed, and when he gets 60 feet away starts chucking javelins like Harry taught him to when fighting something this far out of his experience. He's just as accurate and powerful with them as he would have if been if he hadn't been almost killed. What did Harry just do to turn that potentially lethal wound into something that doesn't even impact Bob's ability to attack or maneuver? Neither HP as Meat nor HP as Luck+Experience+Plot Armor+Meat can really handle lethal blows not impacting your ability to fight, so it must not have been lethal, except we know that this would have killed him if Harry hadn't intervened, so it must be. Ultimately, D&D HP doesn't really have a perfect, non-gamist explanation.

If he's on 1 HP, he is not as good as he was before. His skill at parrying, dodging, defending himself and so forth is reduced to the point that an angry goblin with a rusty kitchen knife could take him down in seconds. He is knackered and showing signs of his injury.

He probably needs to rest for at least an hour, catch his breath and bind his wounds properly (take a short rest and expend some hit dice). As a Fighter, he can also briefly suck it up and focus (use his second wind) to clear his thoughts and remember his earlier training (recover some HP).

And if the attack reduced him to zero, but did not kill him outright, the blow may be deadly - it may not be. Narrate it accordingly. His armor may have appeared to have saved his life, however the internal damage was more severe than first thought. Or one of a milliion different things.

HP are an abstraction. Always have been and always will be. Thats much more useful and efficient way of resolving attacks than having seperate attributes for (parry skill, dodge skill, mental resolve, endurance, physical health, vitality, wounds, knowing how to best use and wear your armor skill, combat experience) etc. Why resolve something with 17 rolls against 10 diiferent aspects of what HP represent, when we can just pool them up and get on with it, narrating it however our table wants to, and according to the story we want to tell?

As an abstraction, simply narrate them accordingly. Not every 'hit' actually physically hits. The 'hit point loss' simply represents an attrition of your overall ability to stay in the fight (exhaustion, knowing when to zig and not zag, loss of resolve in the face of a greater enemy, your luck running out and using one of 'your nine lives', and occasionally an actual physcial injury etc)

[georgie_leech]

If he's on 1 HP, he is not as good as he was before. His skill at parrying, dodging, defending himself and so forth is reduced to the point that an angry goblin with a rusty kitchen knife could take him down in seconds. He is knackered and showing signs of his injury.




In terms of ability to take punishment, yes. Everything else is exactly the same though. His attacks strike just as often, for just as much damage, at the same rate; if Bob was a two weapon fighter, he still makes two attacks a round barring some other use of his bonus action. If he were a Battlemaster, he has the same number of maneuvers available which have the same success rate for the same conditions, and if they involve as Save on the part of the enemy, they're just as difficult to resist if he hadn't just been almost dead. If he's an Eldritch Knight, he ca cast spells just as easily as before, and they're exactly as difficult to resist. He has the same ability to move around the battlefield (Movement speed), the fact that he was unconscious doesn't impact how quickly he can react (his initiative is the same), after the fight he can immediately lift the same amount of weight and take off running (encumbrance), and his ability to resist a poison that would paralyze him or shrug off a wizard trying to dominate him is exactly the same (his save bonuses are the same). In short, the only difference between Bob-the-Fighter and Bob-the-recently-dying-Fighter is that it's easier to go from 100% in terms of combat capabilities back to dying.

In other words, the failure of people to imagine D&D HP in a way that makes narrative sense has less to do with not willing to be imaginative and more to do with the explanations for D&D-style HP never being meant to make sense and being given the most basic handwave at best.

[Malifice]

In terms of ability to take punishment, yes. .

No, remember Hit points dont just represent his ability to 'take punishment'. They represent a large portion of a creatures fighting skill - his ability to parry, dodge and his luck. Thats why fighters and barbarians get more as they advance in level. Its a representation of their combat experience. Knowing when to zig and not zag. How to best parry and dodge. When to step into an oppoents guard, or wait for the blow and counter. That kind of thing. Losing hit points is a direct diminishment of that fighting skill.

A 20th level fighter on 1 HP has had his fighting skill diminished to the point that a peasant with a club could take him on and win. Where as normally the fighter would ordinarily easily 'parry' a blow that would have landed (i.e when he would normally take hit point damage) and then cut the peasant down where he stands, he is now too tired, too down on his luck, utterly lacking resolve or possibly even too injured to be able to parry or dodge the commoner effectively.

[djreynolds]

[QUOTE=Raxs_Slayer;20247917]
Roll:
[1]: Humiliating description, involve a trip, slip or otherwise substantially hindering event.
[-5]: A Poor attempt to hit the target
[-4]: An undermined attempt
[-3]: A Fair, but missed hit
[-2]: A Near strike
[-1]: A Grazing swing
[0]: A Bare hit.
[+1]: A firm hit
[+2]: A Decisive strike
[+3]: An impressive attack
[+4]: An adjusted blow
[+5]: A pinpoint strike
[20]: Incredible combat feat

Try it with damage

This is another useful technique, but you'll be glad to hear; an easier one.

The percentages represent the rough maximum roll on a dice.

[0-25%]: A weakened hit
[26-50%]: A Stern strike
[51-75%]: A Forceful blow
[76-100%]: A Crippling drive

If you aren't big on telling your players the HP values of enemies for Role-play immersion, be sure to describe the foes conditions based on health.

[100-90%]: Unshaken by the fight.
[89-80%]: Still battling without restraint.
[79-60%]: Bruising is apparent.
[59-40%]: Cuts and wounds tear open.
[39-30]: Limbs are Limp, bones broken.
[29-20%]: Blood courses down the adversary.
[19-10]: Worn down, extremely shaken.
[9-1%]: Almost done to fight.

QUOTE]

His Idea is very cool, I see merit and I appreciate his effort

But hit points in 5E are not just health otherwise at 39% with broken bones you are on the bench. Not everyone who plays comes from the same walk of life, its obvious to me, some people have been real collegiate athletes and have probably gotten a "shot" to continue playing, and some of you have worn a uniform. If you tell me your physical health is at 10%, I'm putting you on bed rest.

To me that critical hit, is as mentally damaging as it is physical, same as a powerful sneak attack. A sneak attack for 50 points of damage is a real knock on my confidence, how did he get by my defenses, I'm totally paranoid now and seeing rogues everywhere. That paladin's smite rocked my body and soul.

Hit points are not a part of health, health is a part of many parts of hit points,.... otherwise this chart would provide actually a very nice increasing -2 on your proficiency for every 10% you went down in health. And at 9%-1% you have,
-16 to hit or save.

[georgie_leech]

No, remember Hit points dont just represent his ability to 'take punishment'. They represent a large portion of a creatures fighting skill - his ability to parry, dodge and his luck. Thats why fighters and barbarians get more as they advance in level. Its a representation of their combat experience. Knowing when to zig and not zag. How to best parry and dodge. When to step into an oppoents guard, or wait for the blow and counter. That kind of thing. Losing hit points is a direct diminishment of that fighting skill.

A 20th level fighter on 1 HP has had his fighting skill diminished to the point that a peasant with a club could take him on and win. Where as normally the fighter would ordinarily easily 'parry' a blow that would have landed (i.e when he would normally take hit point damage) and then cut the peasant down where he stands, he is now too tired, too down on his luck, utterly lacking resolve or possibly even too injured to be able to parry or dodge the commoner effectively.

Okay, fine, I could have worded that better.That's on me. You're missing my point though: that in mechanical terms, nothing but his HP changes. That Level 20, 1 HP Fighter is just as capable of doing damage as he was before, just as able to run, just as able to trip or cast spells or go nuts and attack 8 times. A Monk can turn invisible or step through shadows or Earthbend just as well as they could before they were brought to near death. Wizards are just as good at the subtle manipulations needed to cast spells and aim Fireballs properly after unconsciousness. A Rogue hiding in the shadows is exactly as difficult to find as when they're at the peak of their fighting form as after they've fought dozens of opponents and been knocked unconscious several times in near death moments where they would have died in less than twenty seconds before being barely treated by someone with the Healer feat, and they are just as able to take advantages of weaknesses to land a telling blow with Sneak Attack. Those are situations that D&D HP lacks a good explanation for.

[Malifice]

Okay, fine, I could have worded that better.That's on me. You're missing my point though: that in mechanical terms, nothing but his HP changes.

When did hit points [and hit point attrition] not become a mechanic relevant to success in battle?

Hit points represent luck, combat skill and resolve as much as anything else.

A 20th level fighter with 1 hit point is not parrying and dodging as well as he normally is - and by a long shot. His 'parrying skill bonus' is reduced to zero [meaning he can no longer parry], his 'dodging skill bonus' is reduced to zero [meaning he can no longer dodge], and he is all out of 'luck points' to save him too. His 'resolve pool' has equally been totally depleted. He now only has the one 'wound level' to save him from being dropped.

Just look at HP as a combination of all those made up 'attributes' [which is what HP by RAW represent, as an abstraction] and you'll see that mechanically his performace has dropped from peak levels. Markedy.

[georgie_leech]

When did hit points [and hit point attrition] not become a mechanic relevant to success in battle?

Hit points represent luck, combat skill and resolve as much as anything else.

A 20th level fighter with 1 hit point is not parrying and dodging as well as he normally is - and by a long shot. His 'parrying skill bonus' is reduced to zero [meaning he can no longer parry], his 'dodging skill bonus' is reduced to zero [meaning he can no longer dodge], and he is all out of 'luck points' to save him too. His 'resolve pool' has equally been totally depleted. He now only has the one 'wound level' to save him from being dropped.

Just look at HP as a combination of all those made up 'attributes' [which is what HP by RAW represent, as an abstraction] and you'll see that mechanically his performace has dropped from peak levels. Markedy.

In very specific ways that don't impact any of the other mechanics in the game, you mean. A Fighter with the Defensive Deulist Feat will still add the same bonus to his AC, the Dodge Action will still give Disadvantage to attackers just the same, and if he has the Lucky Feat and is a Halfling he's just as lucky in every other way that he was before. The only difference is that attacks are almost certain to be potentially lethal when they beat his AC now. There's a disconnect between the near death of being knocked unconscious at 0 HP and rolling a 20 on the Death Saving Throw after failing twice (meaning coming within 6 seconds of death), yet still having the same mechanical abilities in every other respect. Maybe he's not parrying or dodging as well in an undefined HP sense (While Parrying and Dodging just fine mind you), but he's attacking just as well as he was before.

[djreynolds]

Those are situations that D&D HP lacks a good explanation for.

[QUOTE=Malifice;20254397]When did hit points [and hit point attrition] not become a mechanic relevant to success in battle?

Hit points represent luck, combat skill and resolve as much as anything else.

QUOTE]

And this is why we have to be left without a true definition of hit points, as it is the only thing all creatures have in common in D&D. There is a danger in seeing hit points as a physical attribute, and if you want this, that's fine, but it will lead you to imposing penalties and imposing calculations. That is my view.

To me that 20th level champion, has been as much physically tested as mentally and spiritually tested, and his hit points are a reflection of all of these experiences that allows him to still stand and fight at full capacity with 1 hit point.

[Malifice]

In very specific ways that don't impact any of the other mechanics in the game, you mean. A Fighter with the Defensive Deulist Feat will still add the same bonus to his AC, the Dodge Action will still give Disadvantage to attackers just the same, and if he has the Lucky Feat and is a Halfling he's just as lucky in every other way that he was before. The only difference is that attacks are almost certain to be potentially lethal when they beat his AC now. There's a disconnect between the near death of being knocked unconscious at 0 HP and rolling a 20 on the Death Saving Throw after failing twice (meaning coming within 6 seconds of death), yet still having the same mechanical abilities in every other respect. Maybe he's not parrying or dodging as well in an undefined HP sense (While Parrying and Dodging just fine mind you), but he's attacking just as well as he was before.

I dont think he is attacking just fine anymore. Whereas once he could be counted on to kill dozens of commoners and emerge without even a scratch, effortlssly parrying their blows and knocking them down like Achillies, now he is a 50/50 chance against just the one (who could knock aside his feeble attempt to parry, and cut him down inside of a few seconds).

If you watched the same two 20th level fighters (the first with 200 HP and the second with 1 HP) fight a dozen commoners, you would definately say the one with more HP is clearly the better fighter. He would look (to you) to wade into the fray, parrying mutiple attacks effortlessly, countering those attacks, and dodging the rest, and cutting the peasants down in return.

The 1 HP fighter wouldnt be anywhere near as confident with his swordplay (parrying and counters) nor his dodging ability, would lack resolve, and is pretty likely to get killed by a lucky hit within a few seconds.

[georgie_leech]

I dont think he is attacking just fine anymore. Whereas once he could be counted on to kill dozens of commoners and emerge without even a scratch, effortlssly parrying their blows and knocking them down like Achillies, now he is a 50/50 chance against just the one (who could knock aside his feeble attempt to parry, and cut him down inside of a few seconds).

If you watched the same two 20th level fighters (the first with 200 HP and the second with 1 HP) fight a dozen commoners, you would definately say the one with more HP is clearly the better fighter. He would look (to you) to wade into the fray, parrying mutiple attacks effortlessly, countering those attacks, and dodging the rest, and cutting the peasants down in return.

The 1 HP fighter wouldnt be anywhere near as confident with his swordplay (parrying and counters) nor his dodging ability, would lack resolve, and is pretty likely to get killed by a lucky hit within a few seconds.

And yet, each individual attack is just as like to land despite their attempts at avoiding the attack (same attack bonus) and just as likely to maim or kill their target (same damage bonuses) while maintaining their same speed (same number of attacks). Do you not see the disconnect between claiming they're not as good at offense yet still having the same offensive capacity?

[djreynolds]

And yet, each individual attack is just as like to land despite their attempts at avoiding the attack (same attack bonus) and just as likely to maim or kill their target (same damage bonuses) while maintaining their same speed (same number of attacks). Do you not see the disconnect between claiming they're not as good at offense yet still having the same offensive capacity?

How would explain this? To a kid at the table

[georgie_leech]

How would explain this? To a kid at the table

I don't :smalltongue: D&D HP is handwaved as the mixture in the book, but it doesn't hold up to close scrutiny at all. I'd just tell them to think of it sort of like how the heroes in movies get scuffed up but don't actually get weaker and not to think about it too much. If they're teen's I'd direct them towards the Critical Existence Failure TV Tropes page. There are games that have HP make mechanical sense, but D&D is not one of them. I actually liked how 4e took their explanation and actually ran with it, letting things like inspiration speeches (Warlords) heal and having healing scale to an extent (if it's partly will/inspiration/resolve, restorative effects should restore more drive in a higher level) makes some sense. Contrast with Cure wounds resulting a Fighter 1 going from zero to full on a good roll to barely picking up a Fighter 20; under the reduced effectiveness interpretation, did the spell that actually knit wounds together just restore fighting spirit or luck? How'd it know to do that?

[Malifice]

And yet, each individual attack is just as like to land despite their attempts at avoiding the attack (same attack bonus) and just as likely to maim or kill their target (same damage bonuses) while maintaining their same speed (same number of attacks). Do you not see the disconnect between claiming they're not as good at offense yet still having the same offensive capacity?

This would be impossible for you to notice though.

One fighter slaughters 30 commoners and comes out without a scratch. The other clumsily stuffs up his first parry and gets taken down by a single peasant with a dinner fork.

Remember one [attack roll] in DnD represents a number of feints, parries, blocks, stikes and counters. You couldnt pick out which is an attack and what is the loss of HP from that by watching. Youd just say 'Fighter one is awesome and Fighter 2 sucks'

[georgie_leech]

This would be impossible for you to notice though.

One fighter slaughters 30 commoners and comes out without a scratch. The other clumsily stuffs up his first parry and gets taken down by a single peasant with a dinner fork.

Remember one [attack roll] in DnD represents a number of feints, parries, blocks, stikes and counters. You couldnt pick out which is an attack and what is the loss of HP from that by watching. Youd just say 'Fighter one is awesome and Fighter 2 sucks'

And yet, mechanically, you're doing the exact same thing with the exact same stats. You're arguing that even though the injured Fighter 20 has just as much ability to kill the first commoner in one set of attacks as the uninjured, he's somehow not fighting as well. But let's flip this around. You have two untrained Commoners with a measly 2 HP. Some sadistic jerk is forcing them to fight for his amusement and gives them each a dagger. They fight, the one goes first and deals a single point of damage. That puts the other at near death. But lo! The other retaliates for 2, knocking the first commoner uncunscious and they'll die within 20 seconds if not treated. Well, it just so happens the evil overseer has Healer and he doesn't want the fight to last a mere six seconds, so he patches up the dying commoner (after giving him two rounds to get up on his own because this guy is evil and likes to watch suffering) and commands them to get back into the fight. Despite being literal seconds away from death, that commoner fights just as well as the other!

Other games have rules to reflect how a loss of vitality/essence/luck affects their combat prowess. Shadowrun for instance interprets wounds as actual wounds and the greater the level of injury, the greater the penalties to pretty much everything they do. That's the mechanics and fluff matching up. In D&D meanwhile, to take your example with Harry and the giants it was a near miss to reflect how his experience allows him to dodge. And yet, if the same giant applied an injury poison to his weapon, that near miss would have forced a saving throw to resist the poison anyway. That's the mechanics and fluff not matching up, which is why D&D generally handwaves it; they're not trying to make their Critical Existence Failure mechanics make logical sense. They say it's not just your physical toughness but don't expand beyond that.

To step back a bit, I agree that imagination is better than a table or chart to determine what a die roll means in terms of narrative. What I disagree with is your presentation of an uncontestably fatal blow as an example of how the HP system makes sense, and that feeling that D&D HP does't make much logical sense is a failure of imagination. Meanwhile, I'm going back to ignoring how a Con 8 600 year old wizard with all the vim and vigor of a geriatric sea sponge shrugs off poison better than a trained but inexperience warrior because it's not worth worrying about, not because there's some way for that to be reasonable.

[Malifice]

And yet, mechanically, you're doing the exact same thing with the exact same stats. You're arguing that even though the injured Fighter 20 has just as much ability to kill the first commoner in one set of attacks as the uninjured, he's somehow not fighting as well.

The fighter with less hit points isnt necessarily injured. His fighting ability has just deteriorated. This is demonstrably true in the game world.

In Troy (the film) if Brad Pitts Achillies had 1 HP prior to storming the Trojan beach, he would have been cut down by an arrow shortly after landing (like many of his myrmyidion redshirts were). Luckily he is a 20th level fighter and had full hit points, so he was able to reach the beach head, dodging all those arrows and blocking them with his shield (losing hit points in the process despite never being physically stuck), slaughter a ton of Trojans without getting hit once (but losing hit points in the process) and look all brooding (but uninjured) after the fact.

He probably had bugger all hit points left after the battle and needed a short rest.

His mentee/ cousin Patrochilus, could have even been the same level as Achillies; he just rolled crap on his hit points and thus wasnt able to parry Hectors sword cut as well as Achillies did or get out of the way. Possibly he lost too many hit points parrying, blocking, stabbing and dodging his way through the prior melee to reach Hector. As a conequence, he died, where Achillies (who fought Hector at full HP), triumphed.

Same deal with the storming of Troy. Achillies didnt lose his last HP until the fated arrow hit him in the lower leg. He used the rest parrying, dodging and kicking ass on the way to the keep.


But let's flip this around. You have two untrained Commoners with a measly 2 HP. Some sadistic jerk is forcing them to fight for his amusement and gives them each a dagger. They fight, the one goes first and deals a single point of damage. That puts the other at near death. But lo! The other retaliates for 2, knocking the first commoner uncunscious and they'll die within 20 seconds if not treated. Well, it just so happens the evil overseer has Healer and he doesn't want the fight to last a mere six seconds, so he patches up the dying commoner (after giving him two rounds to get up on his own because this guy is evil and likes to watch suffering) and commands them to get back into the fight. Despite being literal seconds away from death, that commoner fights just as well as the other!

No, what you are doing is choosing to narrate this battle a certain way. Instead of your narration, how about:

'The first peasant thust his knife clumsily forward, where it was knocked aside at the last second by peasant number two. A trickle of blood ran down the defenders arm from a small cut. Peasant two winced, but his anger rose. He drove his own dagger forwards toward his enemies exposed belly, snaring it in the other mans clothes. The first mans eyes opened in shock and in a panicked effort to get out of the way, he stumbled backwards falling to the ground and striking his head, knocking him out cold.

The evil overlord smiled and approached the downed peasant, pulling some smelling salts from his healers kit; slapping the unconscious fool awake with a snarl. 'Fight for your life' he demanded, and the two started wearily circling one another again, fear evident in both mens eyes.

If the peasant instead died:

The evil overlord smiled and approached the downed peasant, reacing towards his healers kit; he slapped the downed peasant, but recieved no response. It was then that he noticed the pool of blood under the peasants lifeless body. It was clear that (the fool had fallen on his dagger/ hit his head on the stonework/ the first peasants blade had found its mark) .


Other games have rules to reflect how a loss of vitality/essence/luck affects their combat prowess.

So does DnD. Its just more abstract, and requires a level of narration.

[georgie_leech]

So does DnD. Its just more abstract, and requires a level of narration.

If you believe that's how rules work, there's no further discussion to be had here. I could respond to your points individually, but if you think that that D&D has rules for how HP loss affects combat ability, we fundamentally disagree in a way I can't see changing.

[Malifice]

If you believe that's how rules work, there's no further discussion to be had here. I could respond to your points individually, but if you think that that D&D has rules for how HP loss affects combat ability, we fundamentally disagree in a way I can't see changing.

There is nothnig wrong with narrating HP as meat if you want, with PCs hulking up as they level up, and showing starfish like qualities of healing, with everv sword cut hacking off slabs of flesh, only for magic and mumdane healing to be able to stitch it back on with no lasting effects.

Its really a matter of personal taste. Both methods have pros and cons. Its your story. Tell it how you want it told.

[gameogre]

Can we please remember this is the internet and keep all mature and thoughtful statements to a minimum?

We come here to read people metaphorically burning to death in the fires of tyrannical evangelical nerd rage and being crucified in crusades of fanatical one sided view points.

Where did all the HP is meat dictators go?

Where are those HP are luck terrorists?

At this rate I will have to go read a pathfinder forum to find some drama.




OH! I just had to scroll up! Whew!

[djreynolds]

This is a good conversation, because like alignment, it comes up. And everyone's take I'm sure is fine if players aren't walking out. And I steal ideas all the time.

[JackPhoenix]

Just because you're as good attacking with one hit point with 200 doesn't have to mean much outside the very abstract combat mechanics in D&D. Even a mortally wounded man can kill you if he's lucky or you're too overconfident and don't think he's still a threat (for example, look at Viper vs. Mountain fight...in D&D terms, they fought and depleted each others HP, Mountain ended up at 0 first, bud made his death saves and when Viper got close, attacked him and depleted his last hp...and also continued to attack him while he was down so Viper would fail his death saves.

It's a matter of narration, not mechanics...it could be, and it is in some other systems, but WotC decided to stay away from applying penalties from losing hp. That doesn't prevents anyone from roleplaying them, though: in my game, cleric rolled nat 1 (it's not autofail in 5e, but still) when she got fireballed and ended with 1 hp...there was no mechanical reason to do so, but the player still described her as severely burned, stumbling around in pain (at least until few healing spells got her back up) with damaged clothes and armor and without most of her hair. She fought just as well mechanically...but the description of her attacks changed from skill to more luck and enemies paying less attention to her and more to the healtier members of group, who attacked more furiously to protect their companion...again, without any mechanical advantages from doing so. Before that, she got few scratches from the orcs they fought and a hurt arm from blocking their attack with her shield, despite losing hp during the extended fight...the worst damage was critical hit from their warchief, which got described as a dented armor and bruise underneath (that hit got her under 50% health)...not taking a greataxe to the face without problem as if hit points were meat.

[Malifice]

A simple houserule is to apply disadvantage to attacks (and some kind of concentration save to cast a spell) when a creature is down to... I don't know - 25 percent of it's max HP or something. Not what I would do, but hey.

[MaxWilson]

And yet, each individual attack is just as like to land despite their attempts at avoiding the attack (same attack bonus) and just as likely to maim or kill their target (same damage bonuses) while maintaining their same speed (same number of attacks). Do you not see the disconnect between claiming they're not as good at offense yet still having the same offensive capacity?

The disconnect is especially noticeable in ranged combat. The 1 HP guy is going to kill an awful lot of peasants with forks before he goes down if he is a Sharpshooter. Somehow his "shaky hands" don't translate into "slow speed" or "shaky aim."

[mephnick]

So now it's a Schrodinger wound that might be a stab to the heart and might be just an arm scratch, and you don't know which until someone tries to bandage it? I haven't heard of anyone running things that way and being satisfied with it, but YMMV.

I run it that way as I don't allow players to roll their death saves until someone checks on them. Then they can't meta-game about saves and fails. If you let someone build up 5 death rolls they might already be dead.

So someone checks on the character after and he's either:

Saved: "Blizak looks pretty rough, probably some cracked ribs and blood loss, but he seems to be breathing."

Failed: "Unfortunately as you approach Blizak you realize the Owlbear's talons have taken most of this throat away. Your friend is dead."

So it is "schroedinger's wound", but we find that it works. (I do use a separate injury table though for if they live)

[Talakeal]

There is nothnig wrong with narrating HP as meat if you want, with PCs hulking up as they level up, and showing starfish like qualities of healing, with everv sword cut hacking off slabs of flesh, only for magic and mumdane healing to be able to stitch it back on with no lasting effects.

Its really a matter of personal taste. Both methods have pros and cons. Its your story. Tell it how you want it told.

A lot of people really do like to describe their characters like this, or as having skin that is harder than iron and almost impossible to damage with ordinary weapons. I prefer a more low-key fantasy myself and find it distasteful.

I personally say that if a character took damage, they took damage. Unless it is a critical hit or one that drops them below zero it is probably going to be described as a mere flesh wound, or possibly even a completely internal injury such as a pulled muscle, but there is something wrong with them.

D&D doesn't model penalties for being hurt, this is an abstraction and I can live with it, and if you chalk it up to heroic resolve and surging adrenaline it isn't too grievous of an abstraction, although I do wish D&D had a little more complexity for dying characters so that you could be dying without being unconscious or vice versa.

I do, however, think that lack, endurance, and combat skill all factor into maximum HP. A character who has 100 HP and is stabbed for 10 points of damage is still injured, but due to a combination of luck, fighting skill, or grit, they are simply not injured as badly as a 20 HP character who was subjected to the same attack.

[Malifice]

A lot of people really do like to describe their characters like this, or as having skin that is harder than iron and almost impossible to damage with ordinary weapons. I prefer a more low-key fantasy myself and find it distasteful.

I personally say that if a character took damage, they took damage. Unless it is a critical hit or one that drops them below zero it is probably going to be described as a mere flesh wound, or possibly even a completely internal injury such as a pulled muscle, but there is something wrong with them.

D&D doesn't model penalties for being hurt, this is an abstraction and I can live with it, and if you chalk it up to heroic resolve and surging adrenaline it isn't too grievous of an abstraction, although I do wish D&D had a little more complexity for dying characters so that you could be dying without being unconscious or vice versa.

I do, however, think that lack, endurance, and combat skill all factor into maximum HP. A character who has 100 HP and is stabbed for 10 points of damage is still injured, but due to a combination of luck, fighting skill, or grit, they are simply not injured as badly as a 20 HP character who was subjected to the same attack.

As long as you bear in mind that 'damage' is damage to 'hit points' [luck, grit, fighting skill and health] the distinction becomes a lot easier to make.

Even better, break up hit points into 4 seperate pools of 'luck points' 'grit points' 'wound points' and 'skill points' and choose which pool to reduce when your 'hit points' get damaged. Its silly to do (adding another layer of complexity on the top of a perfectly fine if abstract system) but it helps some peeps visualise it better.

Or just rename hit points 'plot armor points' and let your PCs describe what the reduction of them represents.

[mephnick]

How do you describe hits then?

"Kriznak dodges the axe blow! But it's acutally a hit....and you take 5 damage."

That doesn't seem to flow well to me.

[KorvinStarmast]

How do you describe hits then?

"Kriznak dodges the axe blow! But it's acutally a hit....and you take 5 damage."

That doesn't seem to flow well to me.
"'Tis but a scratch!" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_(Monty_Python))

[mephnick]

"Tis but a scratch" implies HP as meat, though.

How do you describe a hit as a dodge or luck?

"A branch falls in front of you as the axe comes down, deflecting the attack. You lose 20 HP"

[KorvinStarmast]

"Tis but a scratch" implies HP as meat, though.

How do you describe a hit as a dodge or luck?

"A branch falls in front of you as the axe comes down, deflecting the attack. You lose 20 HP"
Just in case you are not familiar with color conventions, the blue text is used when humor (or an attempt at humor) is to be inferred from the post.

[mephnick]

Right. :smalltongue:

Blue link just translated to regular link in my mind.

[JoeJ]

Hit points as a measure of damage have been a problem for verisimilitude since the earliest beginnings of D&D. If they don't represent physical damage, then why call something a "hit" that doesn't actually hit? If they do, how is it that a mid-level fighter is physically tougher than a bull elephant? If the game were being created today, without the requirement to maintain some sense of continuity with older editions, I doubt very much that characters would have hit point that increase with level. (Or armor that makes you tougher to hit, for that matter.)

Because of tradition, however, it is what it is. D&D hit points are never going to make sense. You can either handwave the problem away (easiest), homebrew a different way of handling damage (hardest, and probably not worth the effort), or play a different game.

[mephnick]

You can either handwave the problem away (easiest), homebrew a different way of handling damage (hardest, and probably not worth the effort), or play a different game.

Pretty much. To be clear, I'm not on either side, we don't even talk about it in my group. I also allow tied up helpless characters to be instantly killed if their throat is cut, so I'm probably a heathen to some people here.

[Tanarii]

I've had characters that expend their magical energy to block blows before. Specifically, they cast a shield that costs them 10 hit points of fatigue, endurance and magical will to block a 10 hit point sword or magical attack. Works fine for Divine magic too.

This is especially easy 5e, since almost no characters are completely non-magical. Only Frenzy Barbarians, non-EK Fighters, and non-AT Rogues.

Hit points work however you and the DM choose to narrate them. Personally I choose not to talk myself into a simulationist corner, but I can see why others would want to know exactly what hit points and healing represent in-game. The nice thing is HPs can be abstract. Or you can find a way to make them concrete, especially once you add in the lingering injuries rule.

[Malifice]

How do you describe hits then?

"Kriznak dodges the axe blow! But it's acutally a hit....and you take 5 damage."

That doesn't seem to flow well to me.

It doesnt do meat damage. I deals hit point damage. He loses 5 points of 'luck, resolve, combat experience and the will to live'

Damage to his hit points, not his flesh.