Conversion question; Mediums and Vestiges

[Xuldarinar]

A question I felt like posing. Is there a good/easy/ect. way to convert or utilize vestige with pathfinder's Medium class? How would you say medium spirits stack up to vestiges in general?

[Florian]

A question I felt like posing. Is there a good/easy/ect. way to convert or utilize vestige with pathfinder's Medium class? How would you say medium spirits stack up to vestiges in general?

Good question.

I don´t think they mesh too well, despite sharing a common theme. You could take a vestige, compare it to a spirit and create a legendary version of it, but it won´t share any of the traits it had as a vestige (which is good).

[Xuldarinar]

It certainly wouldn't be simple, but surely there is a way to do it.

Assigning which abilities (thankfully the right number are provided) are given access to at which levels is one question to address. Another is how one would gain access to higher level vestiges (Scale by medium spell access, or "binder level", or some other criteria). Then theres the matter of Spirit Bonuses, Seance Boon, Favored Location, and Influence Penalty. Taboos are simply covered by their influence.

In part, I think one thing to address is the power of vestiges compared to spirits, including in how they scale.

[atemu1234]

It certainly wouldn't be simple, but surely there is a way to do it.

Assigning which abilities (thankfully the right number are provided) are given access to at which levels is one question to address. Another is how one would gain access to higher level vestiges (Scale by medium spell access, or "binder level", or some other criteria). Then theres the matter of Spirit Bonuses, Seance Boon, Favored Location, and Influence Penalty. Taboos are simply covered by their influence.

In part, I think one thing to address is the power of vestiges compared to spirits, including in how they scale.

Yeah, though I think I saw a PF binder conversion somewhere...

[Florian]

Yeah, though I think I saw a PF binder conversion somewhere...

The Binder is one of those old classes that ceased to mesh well with the PF system, as in most cases the way resources are handled have drastically changed.


It certainly wouldn't be simple, but surely there is a way to do it.

Assigning which abilities (thankfully the right number are provided) are given access to at which levels is one question to address. Another is how one would gain access to higher level vestiges (Scale by medium spell access, or "binder level", or some other criteria). Then theres the matter of Spirit Bonuses, Seance Boon, Favored Location, and Influence Penalty. Taboos are simply covered by their influence.

In part, I think one thing to address is the power of vestiges compared to spirits, including in how they scale.

"Vestige Levels" are a pretty irrelevant concept when talking about the Medium.
Take a look at Occult Realms "Legendary Spirits" section. There´re six examples for specific Spirits replacing the generic ones but needing the Medium to attune to them by visiting certain places and doing certain deeds.
Porting over Vestiges should be based on that template.

[Psyren]

The Binder is one of those old classes that ceased to mesh well with the PF system, as in most cases the way resources are handled have drastically changed.

Nah, all the essentials (supernatural abilities, ability check DCs, cooldowns and action times) are there. You can port the Binder very easily, or better yet you can use...


Yeah, though I think I saw a PF binder conversion somewhere...

Yep, it's called the Occultist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/radiance-house/occultist) (though they may change the name now that Paizo has their own Occultist). There are a metric ton of vestiges spirits (http://alharadnd.wikidot.com/occultist-spirits) printed for it already, and it's compatible with all the existing vestiges too. It goes up to 9th-level rather than 8th-level and the progression has been accelerated to match, including the rate at which you can bind more than one at a time.

The class is getting an overhaul thanks to a Kickstarter that was recently funded (http://kck.st/1DZgRZJ) but the original version is still usable.

[Florian]

Nah, all the essentials (supernatural abilities, ability check DCs, cooldowns and action times) are there. You can port the Binder very easily, or better yet you can use...

Come on, Psyren, you know what I mean. The way things have developed with PF, most classes work on more than one resource and class features are heavily dependent on those. Yes, you could do a simple port and it still "works", but is very different from baseline PF classes and how those are supposed to work now.

[Psyren]

Come on, Psyren, you know what I mean. The way things have developed with PF, most classes work on more than one resource and class features are heavily dependent on those. Yes, you could do a simple port and it still "works", but is very different from baseline PF classes and how those are supposed to work now.

First, the binder actually has two resources too - vestiges and pact augmentations. The latter effectively gives you full BAB, e.g. 2 attack at level 2 before buffs/items, 5 at level 5, 10 at level 10 etc., because insight bonuses to attack are harder to come by.

Second, as I pointed out in the latter half of my post, you don't have to do any work at all - just add the 3.5 vestiges to the RH Occultist's spirit list and call it a day. The conversion has already been done for you, no effort required.

[Manyasone]

You can also wait for 'Pact Magic Unbound: Grimoire of Lost Souls' by Radiance House.
I'm a backer, it should be out in february. The publishers told us to hang tight

[Mithril Leaf]

Nah, all the essentials (supernatural abilities, ability check DCs, cooldowns and action times) are there. You can port the Binder very easily, or better yet you can use...



Yep, it's called the Occultist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/radiance-house/occultist) (though they may change the name now that Paizo has their own Occultist). There are a metric ton of vestiges spirits (http://alharadnd.wikidot.com/occultist-spirits) printed for it already, and it's compatible with all the existing vestiges too. It goes up to 9th-level rather than 8th-level and the progression has been accelerated to match, including the rate at which you can bind more than one at a time.

The class is getting an overhaul thanks to a Kickstarter that was recently funded (http://kck.st/1DZgRZJ) but the original version is still usable.

Recently is a bit of an exaggeration considering it was the better part of a year ago, and it's almost out. It's quite a good book though, on par with the usual quality of DSP. They did nerf most of the purple spirits though, maybe an update to any guides for the books could be arranged. :3c

[Psyren]

Recently is a bit of an exaggeration considering it was the better part of a year ago, and it's almost out. It's quite a good book though, on par with the usual quality of DSP. They did nerf most of the purple spirits though, maybe an update to any guides for the books could be arranged. :3c

As soon as I have it, that handbook is getting updated, don't worry. (Plus I'd like to wait until my NDA is lifted before posting anything about the new version.)

[Mithril Leaf]

As soon as I have it, that handbook is getting updated, don't worry. (Plus I'd like to wait until my NDA is lifted before posting anything about the new version.)

Is the NDA actually in place for the Backer Version or do you have some special edition that the rest of us backers haven't seen?