Simulacrum Minionmancy

[g3taso]

Here's a scenario in Pathfinder. Someone makes a simulacrum of a Winterwight and applies the Undead Lord template (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/undead-lord-template) so now that winterwight can plow through a remote village and convert all those commoners into 20HD winterwights also via spawning. Then that simulacrum tells all those winterwights to follow the instructions of the magic user who created it, leaving him with a huge army of creatures who will follow his orders.

Now I know that in this scenario I have a simulacrum with a template, and I have heard both sides of the debate. Feel free to chime in on that if ya like, but I'm also considering making an item that can apply a template while it is being worn for a short duration a couple of times per day to do the dirty work of getting the Undead Lord applied and I 'd like your thoughts on pricing something like that as well.

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... couple of notes...

Simulacrum (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/simulacrum), with the "appropriate abilities" clause, gives the DM free reign within RAW to remove any ability they deem level inappropriate. Which may very well include the Create Spawn ability from Undead Lord.
Undead Lord isn't Paizo, so won't be welcome at all tables.
That copy of the template is from 2004, you want the 2011 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/undead-lord-cr-1-or-2-tohc) version, theoretically.
You mentioned the annoyances with using a templated creature via Simulacrum.
Undead Lord makes no mention of other templates. It's entirely possible that your conversion makes them simulacrums of Winterwights, rather than normal Winterwights - which means 10 HD, not 20, fast healing doesn't work (must be repaired) and potentially reduced abilities (what's appropriate to a 10 HD winterwight? DM call...)

[g3taso]

Appreciate the tip on the Undead Lord version I posted was the old one. I wasn't sure which one was.

I'd also like to thank you for pointing out something. The Simulacrum spell notes that "it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). It hadn't occurred to me that particular abilities could be lost and that is a good point, on the flip side observing that that loss of an ability or two from a simulacrum creature would typically not be a major issue and I would surmise the caster has some influence on an ability they want a simulacrum to be made for anyway.

[Jack_Simth]

Appreciate the tip on the Undead Lord version I posted was the old one. I wasn't sure which one was.

I'd also like to thank you for pointing out something. The Simulacrum spell notes that "it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). It hadn't occurred to me that particular abilities could be lost and that is a good point, on the flip side observing that that loss of an ability or two from a simulacrum creature would typically not be a major issue and I would surmise the caster has some influence on an ability they want a simulacrum to be made for anyway.

You would, sure. And in TO exercises, most things are interpreted in the most favourable way. However, in an actual game, when it comes to adjudicating game mechanics, that's not the player's role, that's the DM's. Neither my opinion on the matter, nor your opinion on the matter, matter; it's the DM's opinion that matters.

The DM gets a blank check - directly in the spell, not rule 0 - to do whatever seems right to the DM. If the DM is not specifically aware of this, then the DM might just think of special abilities in terms of class features, in which case, you're liable to get everything but the skill ranks and feats. If the DM is aware, you'll get... some subset of special abilities, maybe.

[Quertus]

Which is why you always use advanced HD versions of the creatures to make your simulacrum, so that when you reduce the HD you get... a normal version of the creature, complete with all special abilities.

[John Longarrow]

Note from the spell itself
A simulacrum has no ability to be come more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities.

If your DM has read this they won't allow it to gain a template.

As Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature, your DM may rule you can't use an item to grant it a template. Check with your DM to see if they are even willing to allow any of what you are doing.

Note: Also check to see if your DM would still consider the simulacrum as an undead or a spell effect. If its not really an undead the template wouldn't apply.

[Snowbluff]

Simulacra are not spell effects, they are creatures made from shadow matter, which is why they are weaker than the sampled creature. They are "half real" in much the same way a Shadow Conjuration is, but without the extra rolls.

Which is why you always use advanced HD versions of the creatures to make your simulacrum, so that when you reduce the HD you get... a normal version of the creature, complete with all special abilities.

Indeed. If the ability is of the same level as the HD of the created creature, we don't have a reason to believe it's not kosher.

Not that monsters have levels. If the creature has class levels, then the rule would apply.