Help with character concept

[oaken]

Hi everyone,

I am thinking of a new character, and I have an idea in mind but I can't figure out what's the best way to make it work. Essentially I am thinking of a slender and agile character that uses light armor, casts spells but doesn't run away from combat either, as he carries a quarterstaff that he can use to hold his ground.

I understand that because of this quarterstaff combat + spells he possibly won't excel in either, and that's ok, as long as I don't have to be carried by the party doing combat. I am fine with not being the top damage dealer or top tank of the group.

I initially thought of doing a Fighter/Bladelock, but from what I gathered they usually require heavy armor, is this correct? What would be other ways of doing this?

Thanks!

[CantigThimble]

A dex based fighter or bladelock can easily get by with light armor. The only issue there is the quarterstaff is a str based weapon so that's not great. Monk sounds really great for this with unarmored defense and the ability to use dex for their quarterstaff. As for the spellcasting there's way of the 4 elements which gets some spellcasting-like abilities. It's not a very strong option in terms of optimization but it sounds like that doesn't bother you much. However if you wanted a different kind of spellcasting you can go monk/cleric multiclass, relying on wisdom for both monk and cleric abilities with dex for close combat.

Before I give specific builds I need to know what level you're starting at, how you're generating ability scores and how long you think the campaign might go. Oh, and did you have a specific race in mind or are you fine with whatever?

[zylodrizzt]

Blade singer multi for armor or human for prof or race with prof. Eldritch knight using dex. Bard. Arcane trickster. Arcana cleric really any. Favored soul. Ranger. Paladin. If you want Sun soul or elements monk. Lots of ways to get a light armor melee spelcaster. If you want to run off of a single stat warlock with sheleligh (tome) one of the new melee cantrips.

[Malifice]

Hi everyone,

I am thinking of a new character, and I have an idea in mind but I can't figure out what's the best way to make it work. Essentially I am thinking of a slender and agile character that uses light armor, casts spells but doesn't run away from combat either, as he carries a quarterstaff that he can use to hold his ground.

I understand that because of this quarterstaff combat + spells he possibly won't excel in either, and that's ok, as long as I don't have to be carried by the party doing combat. I am fine with not being the top damage dealer or top tank of the group.

I initially thought of doing a Fighter/Bladelock, but from what I gathered they usually require heavy armor, is this correct? What would be other ways of doing this?

Thanks!

I was thinking Monk also, but then I noticed light armor, and you cant use martial arts [dex to hit and damage with a staff] with armor.

[Felvion]

As zylodrizzt said you could be tomelock with shillelagh. Booming blade (from SCAG) can give you lots of extra damage without the need for extra attack. Also the damage penalty from moving after booming blade can proc hex for a second time in a round. You could take the mobile feat, hit someone, force him to root there or take extra dmage and then move away without taking attack of opportunity. Your main stats would be charisma for maximising shillelagh and of course some con and dex. Also as a warlock you can boost your ac a bit with the mage armor invocation. In this build i'd strongly recommend dipping 2 levels of rogue for cunning action and the sneak attack potential.
Additionaly you have great range attacks with eldritch blast, agonizing if you want and hex/sneak attack when you want.

[DracoKnight]

Go Lore Bard. At 6th level take Shillelagh and Green-flame Blade or Booming Blade. You have light armor, d8 Hit Dice, you're not useless in combat, but you're not the top damage dealer or tank. It's an awesome class, even before you get to 6th, because you can play support to your allies, and they'll love you for it :smallsmile:

Honestly, bard is one of my favorite classes :smallbiggrin:

[CaptAl]

Tome Lock and Lore Bard both rely on that Druid spell shillelagh. I'm going to advocate for all the utility of the awesome Druid spell list with no opportunity cost for taking Shillelagh. Go circle of land and pick whichever terrain appeals to you. (Grasslands and Underdark are my favorites) Then wield your stick for emergencies, and buff/heal/summon to your hearts content.

[Belac93]

If you are not worried about actually casting spells and just want the flavor, Monk. Sun soul gives you blasty type stuff, elemental give you a (slightly suboptimal) elemental casting, and shadow monk gives you darkness and other things like that. All of these can be gained by 3rd level. Variant human would let you get magic initiate or ritual casting if you want.

[Hairfish]

Your class concept sounds exactly like what SCAG's Bladesinger Wizard is for. Spells, light armor, quarterstaff (or the 1h melee weapon of your choice), and useful in melee.

The only thing I'd quibble on is that you appear to be interested in wielding a quarterstaff as a tanking weapon. Weapons don't really serve as tanking weapons out of the box, you'd have to devote feats to them. If you go Bladesinger, you're better off picking rapier (or other finesse weapon) at level 2 and then grabbing the Defensive Duelist feat.

[Foxhound438]

you could go land druid for shilelagh, or monk with some in cleric or druid. Monk wouldn't have light armor, but instead you get better-than-light no armor.

[Foxhound438]

Nature cleric also has shilelagh if you want to go that route.

[Corran]

Essentially I am thinking of a slender and agile character that uses light armor, casts spells but doesn't run away from combat either Bladesinger.

as he carries a quarterstaff that he can use to hold his ground.

Oh dear. Hmmm, refluff your rapier as a quarterstaff?
Or dip one level in druid for shillelaugh, so that you can use your quarterstaff with intelligence (also, one handed, d6).

[Malifice]

Bladesinger.

Oh dear. Hmmm, refluff your rapier as a quarterstaff?
Or dip one level in druid for shillelaugh, so that you can use your quarterstaff with intelligence (also, one handed, d6).

You can use a quarterstaff and bladesing. As long as you hold it in one hand.

[Shining Wrath]

Ask your DM nicely if you can build a 4 elements monk who, after taking the Lightly Armored feat, can use Monk abilities while wearing light armor. It's not really OP. Maybe you can trade away 5' of speed (or 10' of speed) while wearing light armor.

[oaken]

Wow, thank you everyone for the replies!

I will definitely take a look at all of these options!
I hadn't even considered Monk, had even forgotten about the elements monk.


Before I give specific builds I need to know what level you're starting at, how you're generating ability scores and how long you think the campaign might go. Oh, and did you have a specific race in mind or are you fine with whatever?

I am not sure, but we usually start from level 1, and if it's anything like my previous experiences we're not getting very far! I'd guess not getting past level 7-ish. Ability score's usually standard array. Since it's a slender type of character I think it would be human, elf or half-elf.


As zylodrizzt said you could be tomelock with shillelagh. Booming blade (from SCAG) can give you lots of extra damage without the need for extra attack. Also the damage penalty from moving after booming blade can proc hex for a second time in a round. You could take the mobile feat, hit someone, force him to root there or take extra dmage and then move away without taking attack of opportunity. Your main stats would be charisma for maximising shillelagh and of course some con and dex. Also as a warlock you can boost your ac a bit with the mage armor invocation. In this build i'd strongly recommend dipping 2 levels of rogue for cunning action and the sneak attack potential.
Additionaly you have great range attacks with eldritch blast, agonizing if you want and hex/sneak attack when you want.

This sounds like a lot of fun actually. And honestly I really like the flavor of Warlock and have been wanting to play one for some time now.
How is this build compared to a standard dex straight bladelock? I'd rather, initially, not think about multiclassing, specially when we usually don't go very far with our adventures.


Oh dear. Hmmm, refluff your rapier as a quarterstaff?

It looks like this would actually help with a bunch of the options laid out here.
I've done similar things in the past, but I suppose it varies from DM to DM. Are the DMs out there usually open to this?

[oaken]

In this build i'd strongly recommend dipping 2 levels of rogue for cunning action and the sneak attack potential.
Additionaly you have great range attacks with eldritch blast, agonizing if you want and hex/sneak attack when you want.

Also, sneak attack wouldn't really work because it requires a finesse or a ranged weapon, right?

[Felvion]

First off, you are obviously right about the sneak attack.
As for the build, the most limiting thing you've mentioned so far is the level ceiling. At such early levels you don't have many options to work around the build's difficulties (whichever one you may choose).
If your dm agreed to refluff the staff as a finesse weapon would be great. This would mean you could possibly pick the caster class you like most and not the one that fits best the mechanics. Booming blade and the other scag cantrips are nice boosts for your damage since you'll probably be limited to only 1 attack.
If you can't make it finesse then you have to make some choices. Druid and nature cleric can get shillelagh right from level 1 so you can prioritise your casting stat first and dex/con second. If you don't like these classes, you can get the cantrip either from tomelock or bard level 3.
If you don't mind being a secondary caster but wan't better fighting features you could be a scirmishing ranger (UA), an arcane trickster or a monk. They each have their pros/cons but it all comes down to the theme you like best.
Personally, i wouldn't mind multiclassing a bit in such a build cause you won't be a primary frontliner nor the main caster anyway. Dips in rogue or druid(cleric)/monk combinations can work miracles and won't hurt you much if you don't plan on long term builds.
Anyway, the most important is to have fun with your character. I like to say that in 5th you can't go wrong, unless you try too hard. Start building on a class/theme you like and don't get "forced" to pick a class just cause it has better mechanics.

[MrStabby]

Maybe a ranger/monk/cleric could work?

Ranger to 5 gives you some casting, a fighting style, 2 attacks. Monk 1 ability to use dex for quarterstaff and gives you solid AC (ish).

That would take you to level 6, after which adding caster levels gives you more of the casting feel you want. Cleric is the obvious one as it uses Wis.

[unwise]

Asking your DM if you can use Quarterstaff as a finesse weapon on a Bladesinger really sounds like the way to go. It has no practical advantage outside of Polearm Mastery (which you could just not take). Either way you are attacking with d8, same as you would with a rapier. Seeing a wizard actually use a staff for something would be a welcome change.

Outside of that, a slight monk dip sounds like the way to go, then Bladesinger.

[Hudsonian]

Seems to me like the OP wants a Vhuman Arcane trickster that takes shillelagh. If the DM is going to let you refluff a staff into a rapier then this is exactly what you are looking for. This would also give you some of the out of combat versatility that makes a non-optimized character fun.

What kind of spellcasting did you want? Have you considered Land Druid? They can be an ok glass cannon in melee, then drop into wild shape to preserve life.

In my opinion, there are about nine million different ways to build what you are looking for.

Single class options:
Arcane Trickster w/shill
Lore Bard w/Shill and shield/Cutting Words

Multiclass options
(no armor)
monk1/cleric (light for attack, life for buff, tempest could also be fun)
human (basic) barb 2/wiz (15 con, 13 dex, 14 int, 12 str, 10 wis, 8 cha) pump int/str @ 4.

[bid]

Shillelagh as a feat requires a Wis class, except for tomelock 3 and bard 6. OTOH, light armor means high Dex, making shillelagh unnecessary.

The other way is monk which uses Wis for AC and Dex for quarterstaff. You only need 1 level and can delay it if you wish. But that means a Wis caster, land druid or some cleric.

A silly but fun way is starting nature cleric (shillelagh or whip) and shedding your armor for cleric 8 / monk 5 (I love dampen elements and variable divine strike).

[oaken]

I went through the options posted here, thank you everyone!
I think that the options I like the best, based on what I have in mind, are tomelock + shillelagh and bladesinger with the refluffed rapier. So I am somewhat settled on one of these two.

I kinda like the flavor of the warlock better, but I am a bit worried about what my AC is going to be with just light armor. At level 5 it would probably be 15 if I am not mistaken, given that I max dex at level 1, is this too little to risk getting caught in melee?

[CaptAl]

I went through the options posted here, thank you everyone!
I think that the options I like the best, based on what I have in mind, are tomelock + shillelagh and bladesinger with the refluffed rapier. So I am somewhat settled on one of these two.

I kinda like the flavor of the warlock better, but I am a bit worried about what my AC is going to be with just light armor. At level 5 it would probably be 15 if I am not mistaken, given that I max dex at level 1, is this too little to risk getting caught in melee?

You should be fine against mooks at that level, but it wouldn't be something you'd want to do all the time. Fine in an emergency, but shouldn't be your bread and butter.

[MrStabby]

You can get armour of shadows if you need it. Not sure it will be a big help though without high dex. If you were to go high dex then the monk(1) path for weapons might be better than shillelagh.

[Azreal]

I played a character like this. I did Shadow Monk/Dragon Sorc.

My AC was high, he used a Staff of Power for a weapon (and beat the **** out of people with it) you have a 3 stat spread with a dump of Str with it.
Dex for AC and quarterstaffing
Wis for AC and Monk Saves
Cha for Sorc spell-casting.

While Monk may give you zero extra spell slots you won't need them if you are doing a character who uses spells to augment themselves and isn't afraid of using sorcery points to cast spells as a bonus action so you essentially can use two quarterstaff attacks and then blast them with a Cantrip or magic missle or whatever strikes your fancy.

Got the shadow monk movement so you can essentially 60ft teleport as long as there are shadows to move to.

[Dimolyth]

I went through the options posted here, thank you everyone!
I think that the options I like the best, based on what I have in mind, are tomelock + shillelagh and bladesinger with the refluffed rapier. So I am somewhat settled on one of these two.

I kinda like the flavor of the warlock better, but I am a bit worried about what my AC is going to be with just light armor. At level 5 it would probably be 15 if I am not mistaken, given that I max dex at level 1, is this too little to risk getting caught in melee?

Armor of Shadows Invocation will grant you additional +1 to AC. Fighter dip for 2 levels (after Warlock 5) will grant you extra +1 AC (defensive style), bonus action self-healing, and Universal-Usefull Action Surge. Paladin dip for 2 levels will grant you same +1 AC, lay on hands, and Divine Smite (you can use it with your warlock slots).

[Arkhios]

How about going Monk of the Four Winds, with Magic Initiate (Druid) feat, take cantrips Shillelagh and Produce Flame, + one 1st level druid spell that doesn't scale further with higher slots so you won't feel bad about not being able to.

As a monk, Dexterity and Wisdom are both very likely to be as high as possible, so a shillelagh with quarterstaff is a good option, especially because unarmed strike doesn't rise above 1d8 until level 17.

With shillelagh you can use your wisdom as both your attack and damage modifier. And so, you could use flurry of blows with your shillelagh!
With Way of the Four Winds you can cast spells with elemental flavor.
Wisdom adds up with Dexterity to your armor class, and you won't even need that armor in the first place. Lightly armored or no armor at all isn't that big deal, I guess?

[MBControl]

Again, it will require a flexible DM, but creating a DEX based PAL could be fun. Your DM would have to help you create a "finesse" quarter staff for you to use. Something like the Longstaff, changing from Heavy to finesse, but sacrificing the 1d8 damage roll with 1d6.

[Argo]

If you can reflavor the Staff to be a Finesse weapon, then go with an Arcane Trickster Rogue.

[Joe the Rat]

If you're going Tomelock, you've got some survival options. Shield works in a pinch, but that's not a trick you can spam.
You can always take the dodge action if you just want to "hold the line." Disadvantage is a marvelous thing. If went monk, you could do that as a bonus action after whacking someone.

With the Tome, you can get Vicious Mockery. Insult them, do damage, and they have disadvantage on their next attack. Not quite dodge, but a poke in the eye in a pinch.

Temporary Hit Points are useful - instead of higher AC, make the hit not matter (as much). You can get these via invocation (Fiendish vigor, give yourself 5-8 extra hp in a pinch), Patron (Dark One's Blessing - free thp if you kill someone drop someone to 0hp), or spells (Armor of Agathys - temp hp, plus anyone that hits you takes cold damage). Note that temp hp don't stack, and replacing AoA thp means you lose the effect.