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Alleine
2007-06-12, 11:06 PM
This topic has probably been brought up hundreds of times, so sorry if its getting old.

I'm curious as to how someone would become a god, even if it were just a really weak rank 0-1 god.
Does the number of followers have to do anything with it? for example, generic-named guy through completely legal channels becomes the patron god of several thousand worshippers. Does it matter that several thousand people believe that he is a god, or are there pre-requisites?

This is out of mostly curiosity, partially to see if a PC could do it, and partially to see if it could be done by a BBEG while following the RAW. Thanks in advance.

Dhavaer
2007-06-12, 11:09 PM
There's no set way to become a god, but Deities and Demigods has a few suggestions. In Greyhawk, I think, you have to be sponsored by a more powerful god.

Starsinger
2007-06-12, 11:10 PM
It's up to the DM I think, but do recall, Vecna did it, so it can be done.

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-12, 11:15 PM
As far as I know, there is no specific RAW path to divinity. It's one of those things you make a campaign around.

That said, I would expect it to involve:
- Killing an existing god, or being present at the death of an existing god.
- Finding some mega-artifact, and fulfilling the unnecessarily complex conditions required to activate it.
- Obtaining some "critical mass" of devoted acolytes.

Vespe Ratavo
2007-06-12, 11:16 PM
Let me grab my copy of Deities and Demigods.
Well, you have to have an "above average" level. I'd wager in the average campaign world you'd need to be at least level 18-20, if not epic.
Secondly, your stats need to be "on par with the lesser demigods." Ergo, probably about low twenties, at least.
Third, you need to have a body of sincere worshipers, who are "convinced of his or her divinity due to their witnessing of and/or belief in the mighty deeds and miracles which he or she has performed (and continues to perform).
And lastly, you need to have been a faithful and true follower of your deity and alignment. Any deviation "will have been noted by the divine powers."
You also need to fulfill some divine quests, then you become a "minor functionary and messenger" until several centuries later, when you might become a demigod.

Or something like that. :smallbiggrin:

Alleine
2007-06-12, 11:22 PM
Many thanks for the speedy replies.

It seems I'll actually be able to employ an idea I have for a dungeon, woth some tweaks, but I won't be able to become even a demigod in the campaign I'm in. I doubt we'll have a few centuries of downtime, though I'm certainly going to live that long.

Again, thanks for the help, expect me to be asking for even more help as time goes by, I'm relatively new to DnD and all the material I've seen lends quite a bit to be desired in the specifics department.

Ramza00
2007-06-12, 11:53 PM
There is a 9th lvl spell in frostburn called ice assassin. (it is similar to simulacrum but better) creating a full copy double made of ice, with all the abilities of the original, for the cost of 5,000 xp, 20,000 gp and a piece of a body of the thing to be copy (such as hair) you can create a fully functional double under your control.


The ice assassin possesses all the skills, abilities, and memories possessed by the original, but its personality is warped and twisted by an all-consuming need to slay the original....The ice assassin is under your absolute command. You possess a telepathic link to the ice assassin, and when you concentrate, you receive a clear image of the area surrounding the ice assassin as if you were scrying it. Further, you can have any spell you cast on yourself affect the ice assassin as well;

you can copy gods with this spell by RAW, you just need a source of skin/hair/etc.

Now Dwomerkeeper's Supernatural spell though will allow you to bypass the components material and xp for this 9th lvl spell. Allowing you to create ice assasins for free (casting time of 8 hours now is the biggest issue, you can sue the Complete Mage feat trick though to make the casting time 1 round.

The ice assassin like a normal diety can give divine ranks to other people to make them their avatars. Thus under your ice assassin to give you all his divine ranks, you are now a god by RAW.

Aquillion
2007-06-13, 12:00 AM
There's a problem with the ice assassin trick.

From the SRD:
A deity is immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).This immunity to compulsions is transferred to the Ice Assassin duplicate you create. Thus, although they are perhaps still possessed of an irrational desire to kill the original, they are almost certainly not under your control, and are no more likely to make you an avatar than the original was.

...however, you can still get Divine Rank 1 by convincing any deity to make you an avatar. Note that this process lowers their divine rank by 1 until they call the invested power back, so don't expect it to actually happen much...

reorith
2007-06-13, 12:12 AM
my friend's character just kept killing people until no one questioned his divinity.

Dhavaer
2007-06-13, 12:14 AM
This immunity to compulsions is transferred to the Ice Assassin duplicate you create. Thus, although they are perhaps still possessed of an irrational desire to kill the original, they are almost certainly not under your control, and are no more likely to make you an avatar than the original was.

Assuming Ice Assassin isn't [Mind-Affecting], immunity to mind affecting effects wouldn't prevent you from controlling it. Not everything that affects your mind is [Mind Affecting], as ridiculous as that sounds.

Aquillion
2007-06-13, 12:18 AM
Assuming Ice Assassin isn't [Mind-Affecting], immunity to mind affecting effects wouldn't prevent you from controlling it. Not everything that affects your mind is [Mind Affecting], as ridiculous as that sounds.Nope. It says "mind affecting effects", not just spells with a [Mind Affecting] descriptor. It goes on to give a list of things that are covered, including several (morale effects, for instance) that aren't limited (or even that closely linked) to [Mind Affecting] spells. Spells specifically designated as mind effecting are clearly covered, but I think the list of examples makes it clear that they're not supposed to be the limit of a deity's immunity... and, specifically, the inclusion of compulsion in that list would seem to prevent the Ice Assassin duplicate from being controlled.

Kavanagh
2007-06-13, 12:27 AM
I have an old book somewhere that I rember talking about "small gods" it had information on how anything with enough worshippers coud gain divine powers.

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-13, 12:40 AM
Ah, the Discworld! An excellent source of ideas on godhood (particularly Small Gods, as the title indicates).

Gavin Sage
2007-06-13, 12:46 AM
The most common method seems to be to kill a god and then you can suck up that deities powers. If Cyric and Raistlin can do it, no reason you can't!

Genome
2007-06-13, 12:48 AM
Play a game of cosmic poker with a god for his/her divinity.

Dhavaer
2007-06-13, 12:48 AM
Nope. It says "mind affecting effects", not just spells with a [Mind Affecting] descriptor.

By this logic, 'The subject is immune to all death spells' means that Death Ward makes you immune to any spell that kills you. Everything immune to mind-affecting effects says the same thing.
Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)
Constructs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType)


It goes on to give a list of things that are covered, including several (morale effects, for instance) that aren't limited (or even that closely linked) to [Mind Affecting] spells.

Everything immune to mind-affecting effects says the same thing.
Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)
Constructs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType)
Both undead and constructs can be controlled, just not by Enchantment (Compulsion) spells.



Spells specifically designated as mind effecting are clearly covered, but I think the list of examples makes it clear that they're not supposed to be the limit of a deity's immunity... and, specifically, the inclusion of compulsion in that list would seem to prevent the Ice Assassin duplicate from being controlled.

Unless Ice Assassin is an Enchantment (Compulsion) effect, no it wouldn't.

Ramza00
2007-06-13, 12:59 AM
You can argue which of the two interpretations is correct forever, its a gray area, the RAW has grey areas, there are good arguements for both sides. It will be ruled by the DM in a case by case basis (though anybody that tries it should be smashed by the DM with the DMG and forced to pay for pizza).

See the recent RAW and you, and the Caelic post someone quoted to see how the theory and assumptions of the theory even acknowledges the inevitability of this debate and similar ones.

TheWarBlade
2007-06-13, 01:04 AM
Or you could be a Baalspawn

Nerd-o-rama
2007-06-13, 01:39 AM
Yeah, but that's way too much work. It's basically on a "there can only be one" system, and there are a crapload of others. You'd need to kill like a kajillion people, and then do some rather convoluted things in Hell and the Abyss, as I recall.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-06-13, 01:54 AM
Your camgaign so your rules to decide the method or methods.

Obtaining the Einherjer template from Dieties and Demigods (Norse God section) would be a nice start though mechanically IMO.

A level 6 Cultmaster PRC from the Fiend Folio for someone with a planar template might be nice to.

Starsinger
2007-06-13, 10:55 AM
The World and Warcraft d20 rpg book "Shadows and Light" has a template called the "Eternal Template" which turns a creature into something akin to a demi-god, not that that's necessarily helpful to you.

To me, the best way to become a god, is to decide how Vecna and St. Cuthbert managed, and set something similar up for the character to accomplish.

Or this one game scenario I had in mind, since I tire of the greyhawk pantheon, and don't want to make my own from scratch... Play an apocalyptic game, wherein at the end, the PCs create a new world, and become founding members of the new pantheon, let them pick a portfolio based on what their characters did and what not.

Kurald Galain
2007-06-13, 01:20 PM
Play the Discworld RPG, it has the equivalent of a feat that lets you start as a god. Okay, lesser god, but god nevertheless.

Cade Shadow
2007-06-13, 02:41 PM
Assuming Ice Assassin isn't [Mind-Affecting], immunity to mind affecting effects wouldn't prevent you from controlling it. Not everything that affects your mind is [Mind Affecting], as ridiculous as that sounds.

that is so sigged!

Wraithy
2007-06-13, 03:44 PM
succeding any skill check with a DC of over 100 (no natural 20s), automatically become the patron deity of that skill (but nothing else)

NEO|Phyte
2007-06-13, 04:07 PM
succeding any skill check with a DC of over 100 (no natural 20s), automatically become the patron deity of that skill (but nothing else)

So all high-level (possibly low Epic, depending on how heavy they itemize for Jump checks) thri-kreen are the patron deity of Jump?

Arbitrarity
2007-06-13, 04:08 PM
Sadly, that's easy. Especially in epic. Even without custom items.

And with neither, I think it's still doable. Let's see. 23+8+15+5+25+4.

Yep. That's +80 for a rogue1/wizard 18/archmage 1/. (hiding) 23 ranks, +8 assumed dex, 15 for superior shadow, +5 for stealthy and skill focus, +25 from a practiced spellcaster/orange ioun stone/spell powered/UMD'd bead of karma moment of prescience, +4 from greater heroism.

:P.

EagleWiz
2007-06-13, 04:28 PM
Simply by the RAW you could make an epic spell to give you the powers of a demigod.

Arbitrarity
2007-06-13, 04:29 PM
No, make a 12'th level spell, and call it (insert name)'s avatar...

Alleine
2007-06-13, 08:13 PM
I just had a thought, doesn't each plane have its own diety or vice versa?

There is a psionic power that allows you to create a demi-plane in the Astral plane, so theoretically if you created said demiplane, you would be the resident god of that demiplane, and while not a full god, you would most likely have demi-god powers, right? Or am I completely off on this...

Matthew
2007-06-14, 07:53 PM
Well, I'm not a hundred percent on how this works, but I don't think so. Becoming a Deity requires more than just creating a Demi Plane.

Ramza00
2007-06-14, 07:55 PM
Gods have Demi Planes

Demi Planes don't neccessary have gods.

bosssmiley
2007-06-15, 01:42 PM
DiceFreaks
Upper_Krust's "Immortals Handbook"
Sean K. Reynold's "Age of Heroes"
OD&D "Wrath of the Immortals"
FR "Netheril: Empire of Magic"
ENWorld Epic forums
"Planescape"
"RuneQuest"

^-- Google. Read. Choose the route that best fits your play style.
AFAIK there's no RAW on ascension to divine status in D&D.

Or you could just awe the heck out an ancestor-worshipping culture (the Chinese, the Romans, the Egyptians, etc.). :smallwink:

BlackStaticWolf
2007-06-15, 02:21 PM
No, make a 12'th level spell, and call it (insert name)'s avatar...

Karsus totally would have gotten away with it if it weren't for them meddling phaerimm.