CE with Low Intelligence, high charisma, high wisdom-How do you play?

[Thealtruistorc]

This has been wracking my brain ever since I tried building a cleric with these stats. How do I represent this concept in a character of varying alignments?

The only archetype that I could find that could fit these stats is the off-the-books sage, a creature who has learned a great deal about life by watching and experiencing it and is capable of sharing such insight with others quite easily. The problem is that the only alignments characters like this ever seem to fit are LN, NG, or TN. What would a chaotic evil character with 7 int, 16-18 wisdom, and 18+ charisma act like?

[Malroth]

Debauched cult leader, Preaches A complete rejection of the rules and self gratification above all else, he panders drugs to his followers to keep them docile and often partakes of whatever physical pleasures he can get out of them but he's actually fleecing their money and is perfectly willing to sacrifice them all for a Demonic wish if he thinks he'll get away from it and he has a spare cult cell set up for himself first.

[Darth Ultron]

What would a chaotic evil character with 7 int, 16-18 wisdom, and 18+ charisma act like?

A nice, friendly sociopath type with a lot of real world experience ''on the streets'', but no real schooling. The person could be one of those amazingly charming types that nearly everyone likes, and that he abuses up to 11 to never get caught or blamed for anything...all the while as he secretly does evil.

[Esprit15]

The self gratification doesn't quite mesh (IMO) with a high wisdom. Someone who has many vices or is quickly willing to give in to desires tends to be a lower wisdom person. He gets people to follow him, and they trust his word, even if it doesn't always make sense the second time you think it over.

Also, a 7 INT, while below average, isn't exactly crippled. They're basically a high school dropout. Play up the high WIS, high CHA, rather than the low INT. Going off of your sage archetype, think of someone who leads others to damnation rather than enlightenment. "Only the strong are fit to survive. If you can take something that you desire, do it. If the owner struggles, silence them." Someone may peg them as LE at first, but they don't respect authority, and they don't have any true principles that guide them. "Power is what separates the strong from the weak. Beware those who have more than you. They are neither to be feared, nor respected, nor worshiped, simply avoided until the time comes that you may topple them, for any man (or woman, never assume the 'fairer sex' is any less capable of rising to power) who can bring you true harm must be treated as though they will do you harm." This is what they teach to others, whether by instruction or by action. You have control and restraint, unlike others of your alignment who are more driven by their lusts and desires, but let this not be mistaken for civility or kindness, simply an awareness of reality, and that there are bigger fish than you in the ocean, who will one day be caught but until that day are best avoided and left un-hooked.

[Know(Nothing)]

That kinda makes me think of any villain or character that has suddenly found themselves in a new time period, planet or culture that is unfamiliar. They still have the wisdom to see who holds the power, and they're perhaps charismatic enough to ingratiate themselves even across cultural and language barriers, they just don't understand the fine points of that world yet. They likely have little concept of economics, the value of items and coins and such, but they DO know when they're being taken advantage of and how to talk their way through it.

Basically you don't have to play them as dumb, just ignorant and unknowledgeable. Maybe he only knows about his god and some philosophy, but only through verbal teaching, and has never picked up a book, or bothered with common daily things like working, trading, etc. His charisma and wisdom means he probably knows better than to let others see that he's evil(unless it doesn't matter), so that shouldn't be an issue. He's charismatic enough to not be the ominous loner type. He's wise enough to not be the kooky, absent-minded type. Perhaps he just isn't intelligent to quite piece together the minutiae of long-reaching plans or objectives. He might just tackle what's in front of him at the moment, knowing what he wants but unsure in the long-term how to achieve it.

[atemu1234]

Sociopath who tends to gather loyal followers, but lacks direction and has little actual intelligence. Think senator.

[Segev]

He's a self-centered monster who reads others extremely well and is good at making people like him or follow his lead. He is talented at sounding smart, and good at telling people enough of what they want to hear that they may ignore things he says which reveal his simple-minded nature and flaws in his arguments. He is not truly a blank canvass, but he presents himself as enough of one that people project the kind of leader they want to follow onto him, and has people buying his lies while he does whatever he wants to at their expense.

[atemu1234]

Think senator.


He's a self-centered monster who reads others extremely well and is good at making people like him or follow his lead. He is talented at sounding smart, and good at telling people enough of what they want to hear that they may ignore things he says which reveal his simple-minded nature and flaws in his arguments. He is not truly a blank canvass, but he presents himself as enough of one that people project the kind of leader they want to follow onto him, and has people buying his lies while he does whatever he wants to at their expense.

... ... Segev seems to word it a bit more diplomatically than myself.

Moreover, his goal should be disorder. Destruction. Because he desires it.

[AmberVael]

Intuitive.

A high charisma, high wisdom person is a very capable person, but low intelligence means less logic, less knowledge. Combine that with chaotic alignment, and I think of someone who handles life by insight and instinct, who gets the gist of pretty much everything while not bothering with the full details. They might not be able to construct a flawless logical argument, but they'll see into the heart of matters and use that to persuade people in a way that pure facts so rarely do.

My first thought when I saw this thread was Zaheer, (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Zaheer) the philosophical, airbending anarchist. He might have a bit more of an education, but otherwise I think its a pretty good fit for CE, high wisdom high charisma with a spiritual bent.

[Segev]

Such a person is less likely to be an actual gang boss than he is to be the charismatic lieutenant.

Think Johnny Gatt from the Saints Row series: he's a monster, objectively. A murderer who enjoys killing and taking things for the heck of it, on top of to get things he wants without regard for the well-being of others (barring the few people he cares about as people; even evil has loved ones). He's one of the most popular characters in the series, both with real-world audiences (because he's a hoot) and with in-game populace (as long as they're not one of his victims). And he revels enough in the adulation that he probably spares those cheering him on. Though he might get frustrated if he can't kill ANYBODY.

He is not one for clever plans, but has a good understanding of others' intentions, capabilities, and how to hit them most effectively. He likes excessive force, but knows how to use it well. ("Early and often" may be his motto, there, but he also knows how NOT to waste it impotently, which is a wisdom thing.)

In all, a low-int, high-cha/wis CE character is going to be a force of nature because he can own a room with terror or amusement, and has an intuitive understanding of how to best inflict the most damage NOW. You can out-plan him, but expect him to play every advantage he has on the field at the moment and play it well. You "beat" him strategically, not tactically; you have to starve him of immediate options, out-thinking him by thinking ahead.

[John Longarrow]

Several items to add to the above,

While he may not be the leader, he will be the figurehead/face. He probably also has a lot of influence over the actual leader. Can't be bothered by the details, but full of grand ideas.

For giving in to his desires, that happens often. He just arranges it so that what he enjoys doesn't get out. He arranges for the drugs/sex but makes sure its cleaned up... permanently. Great love of killing slowly, but is perceptive enough to make sure no one else gets to enjoy his handywork.

[kalasulmar]

https://youtu.be/V8YBuwmtzYE