Experiences with Always-On Flight from Racial Options

[Sitri]

I am planning to start a new campaign soon and the issue of level 1 always-on flying has me a little uncertain. I have always thought of myself as on the very permissive side of character options when DMing, but since this edition seems to make it so hard to fly for most characters that giving it to some races level one seems like it may be unbalancing.

I am trying to make up my mind if these would be my only character creation restrictions for WotC material. Could some of you that have experience with these races share your stories of how it worked out?

[DracoKnight]

I am planning to start a new campaign soon and the issue of level 1 always-on flying has me a little uncertain. I have always thought of myself as on the very permissive side of character options when DMing, but since this edition seems to make it so hard to fly for most characters that giving it to some races level one seems like it may be unbalancing.

I am trying to make up my mind if these would be my only character creation restrictions for WotC material. Could some of you that have experience with these races share your stories of how it worked out?

I haven't had a problem with it. If you put a ceiling over them, they can't use their ability effectively, but you should also build some encounters for that character to really shine - just as you should for all of the other characters.

If you don't like flight at level 1, here's a way to make it less crazy:

Character creation at 1st level: NO flight
Character creation at 3rd level: 30 ft flight (Winged Tiefling Variant)
Character creation at 5th level: 50 ft flight (Aarakocra)

If someone has a character die, they can choose an option appropriate to their level. It's that easy, if you don't like flight at 1st level.

[Kane0]

You can also split it into gliding (feather fall), then limited flight (short bursts like once per rest) followed by full flight over the first couple levels to ease into it.

Im playing a level 4 flying sun monk right now and having a blast. The indoor sections and harsh environments of the campaign do a good job of limiting its usefulness, as well as the shorter range on my attacks. Still great to have, but rarely an autowin.

[spartan_ah]

can someone explain to me what's the big deal in flight?

[Daishain]

I have yet to have any major issues. Then again, I don't design challenges that can easily be trivialized by characters being unexpectedly mobile. There are many many ways to limit or even eliminate the advantages of flight if such is needed, though I strongly discourage overusing such methods (for much the same reason I would discourage commonly preventing a melee specialist from closing with the enemy)

If one is particularly concerned about it, Kane0 has the right idea. Instead of eliminating flight as an option, give them handicaps on it that disappear as they level up.

[Foxhound438]

can someone explain to me what's the big deal in flight?

it trivializes fights with enemies that have no ranged attacks, like bears

[Foxhound438]

I would rule that staying in the air for too long will pul levels of exhaustion on you. Maybe say 5*con mod rounds, or a min of 3. (per short rest)

However, natural flight is of course risky to use. If you go to 0 in the air, you're going to fall and then fail a death save right off. Honestly you should be fine by just giving your enemies modes of ranged attack.

[Kane0]

can someone explain to me what's the big deal in flight?

- It can remove you from melee combat, so if you have a decent ranged attack or they lack the same there isn't much of a challenge.
- It also makes traversing difficult terrain and overcoming barriers and the like a non-issue
- It provides the benefits of the fly spell without concentration which allows you to fly while also invisible or throw around control spells from the air. It also makes concentration saves rarer to boot.
- It forces the game to be played in three dimensions, which can complicate things and confuse or annoy people at times.
- You can avoid a lot of traps and tricks that rely on people walking along the ground, such as tripwires, pressure plates, oil slicks, poison clouds and caltrops.

There are trade-offs of course, but they vary wildly between games, DMs and players. For those that need some ideas:
- Confined space essentially negates flight, forcing the character to be grounded like everyone else
- Falling is a real and lethal threat to a flying character that stops flying, such as by being paralyzed or having their speed reduced to 0
- Carry capacity is a careful consideration when flying. Too much weight and you aren't going anywhere
- Enemies with good ranged attacks aren't particularly bothered by flying foes, likewise enemies that can also fly
- Flying makes you a big target, intelligent enemies can and will use that to their advantage
- Range should be a careful consideration for flying characters. For example if you use short ranged spells or weapons beware the sharpshooter with a longbow or warlock/sorcerer with extended range casting
- Inventive tactics like nets, harpoons, leap-grappling and the like are also things to look out for

Just make sure not to counter flight all the time. The player traded away racial benefits for that flight, make sure its worth it at least some of the time if you've allowed it.

[Naanomi]

A single character with flight can trivialize a lot of exploration challenges, especially at low levels... Nothing needs climbed, no chasm needs jumped over, just a flyer strong enough to ferry teammates around. Also messes with overland travel... Move this treasure across bandit territory; much easier at 400 ft

More so though is when everyone has flying... Back in Hackmaster we had a full pixie party once and just blasted through the official campaigns with flight (and invisibility and tiny size); no foes with range less than our maximum range were worth even mentioning

[Foxhound438]

Move this treasure across bandit territory; much easier at 400 ft


A carrying capacity nerf could be used, or say flying requires you to "carry" your own body weight; this makes it so you might need to drop your pack and such to take off, meaning you would be leaving behind your equipment if you fly across a chasm, or in the above case, the treasure you're supposed to move.

[Naanomi]

A carrying capacity nerf could be used, or say flying requires you to "carry" your own body weight; this makes it so you might need to drop your pack and such to take off, meaning you would be leaving behind your equipment if you fly across a chasm, or in the above case, the treasure you're supposed to move.
Oh I'm not saying you can't modify adventures to create challenges still; but for those of the 'make an adventure to challenge whoever comes' VS 'customize challenges to the party' (especially with published adventures) it can create these situations

[spartan_ah]

Well, kiting is as old as dnd
I can do the same with a ranger, a warlock or a wizard. As a bard I'm never in melee. Always keep my distance.
So why is it deferent?
I accept the difficult terrain thing. But it's not OP. Merely a minor bumper for the dm.
And a reasonable player can tone down his flying pretty easily.
And besides, a lot of classes can get flying pretty easily later on. I hardly find it a game changer

[Kane0]

Well, kiting is as old as dnd
I can do the same with a ranger, a warlock or a wizard. As a bard I'm never in melee. Always keep my distance.
So why is it deferent?
I accept the difficult terrain thing. But it's not OP. Merely a minor bumper for the dm.
And a reasonable player can tone down his flying pretty easily.
And besides, a lot of classes can get flying pretty easily later on. I hardly find it a game changer

No DM horror story features reasonable players.

Like 90% of mechanics, flying itself isn't OP. Its creativity, strategy and teamwork that makes it so.

[MaxWilson]

it trivializes fights with enemies that have no ranged attacks, like bears

So do Expeditious Retreat and the Mobile feat, and sometimes even 1 gp caltrops.

There's a reason why humans and not bears rule the world.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'm running two games with tiny fliers (faerie dragons and a pixie), and I played as a sylph in one game that was unfortunately cut short.

I've not had any problems. As a player, I can totally accept being put into low-ceilinged caves some of the time - it's not like the character ceases to function when she can't fly. It's a fair trade, because the flight is a lot of fun when you bring it out.

As a DM, you have to be aware of the flight, but as long as you use a bit of sense in your encounter design it's not that hard to keep things balanced and challenging. Unless the whole party has flight. Then you might have a problem.

[snacksmoto]

A carrying capacity nerf could be used, or say flying requires you to "carry" your own body weight; this makes it so you might need to drop your pack and such to take off, meaning you would be leaving behind your equipment if you fly across a chasm, or in the above case, the treasure you're supposed to move.

How about using certain encumbrance limitations? Light encumbrance (say, 2.5xSTR) or less and you can fly around as normal. Light to normal encumbrance reduces your aerial maneuverability and aerial speed (no Dex AC bonus, disadvantage on rolls as per "heavily encumbered" variant rules). Over normal encumbrance gliding only, incapable of normal flight. Armour in all cases requires proficiency, flight with heavy armour requires dedicated training. Without the training the character is only capable of gliding in heavy armour irrespective of encumbrance limitations.

[Spiritchaser]

You can also split it into gliding (feather fall), then limited flight (short bursts like once per rest) followed by full flight over the first couple levels

This is more or less what our dm is doing. Its very early days yet, but it doesn't seem like an imposition at all to level flight.

[Kane0]

How about using certain encumbrance limitations? Light encumbrance (say, 2.5xSTR) or less and you can fly around as normal. Light to normal encumbrance reduces your aerial maneuverability and aerial speed (no Dex AC bonus, disadvantage on rolls as per "heavily encumbered" variant rules). Over normal encumbrance gliding only, incapable of normal flight. Armour in all cases requires proficiency, flight with heavy armour requires dedicated training. Without the training the character is only capable of gliding in heavy armour irrespective of encumbrance limitations.
Careful not to overdo it though, lest Guy at the Gym makes an ugly appearance.
Besides, it may only be a partial solution. Dex based ranged characters and casters generally don't carry much and get the most benefit in combat for flying since they usually want to hang back outside of melee anyway.


This is more or less what our dm is doing. Its very early days yet, but it doesn't seem like an imposition at all to level flight.
When I first got my wings (due to the campaign I didn't start with them) I was required to make athletics and acrobatics checks when attempting something new or difficult with regards to flight, until I got to the point I currently am and can afford full flight barring rough winds, heavy damage and other hazards.

[Belac93]

Not much of a problem. I played a 5e homebrew game with a Strix warlock. I just made enemies have ranged attacks or flying speed. It was in a world of floating islands however, so I had an excuse. But you would be surprised how many enemies have ranged attacks. He was almost killed by bandits, and later they fought a chimera, and he would not have been able to outrun it if they hadn't managed to kill it in 1 round (that was crazy. Level 5 group of 4, the chimera had a couple of buffs (it came from hell) and they hit every attack. Smites, wind walls, sneak attacks, everything. Full to 0 in 4 turns.)

[Chambers]

There's a reason why humans and not bears rule the world.

http://orig12.deviantart.net/d707/f/2011/009/d/c/jet_bears_by_morriperkele-d36u5ix.jpg

Soon, my bear brethren.

[DracoKnight]

http://orig12.deviantart.net/d707/f/2011/009/d/c/jet_bears_by_morriperkele-d36u5ix.jpg

Soon, my bear brethren.

Did they go bar-bear/bear/eagle-ian?

[Kane0]

Sir Bearington strikes again.

[Ouranos]

I say it when people have questions like this, I tend to look to 3.5 for guidance or previous examples. In this case, I would reference "Races of the Dragon," page 100, the feat "Improved Dragon Wings." It reads as follows:

Improved Dragon Wings
Type: General
Source: Races of the Dragon

Your draconic wings now grant you flight.

Prerequisite: Dragonblood subtype, Dragon Wings, 6 HD.
Benefit: You can fly at a speed of 30 feet (average maneuverability). You can't fly while carrying a medium or heavy load or while fatigued or exhausted.
You can safely fly for a number of consecutive rounds equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1 round). You can exert yourself to fly for up to ice as long, but then you're fatigued at the end of the flight. You are likewise fatigued after spending a total of more than 10 minutes per day flying. Because you can glide before, after, and between rounds of actula flight, you can remain aloft for extended periods, even if you can only use flight for 1 round at a time without becoming fatigued.
When you reach 12 HD, you have enough stamina and prowess to fly for longer periods. You can fly at a speed of 30 feet (average maneuverability), and flying requires no more exertion than than walking or running.
You can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but you must fly a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. You can make a dive attack only when wielding a piercing weapon; if the attack hits, it deals double damage.
You can use the run action while flying, provided you fly in a straight line.

Now, of course, it required HAVING Dragon Wings as a feat, but since the feat systems are so dramatically different, spending two feats for flight is obviously out. BUT, in converting a character that HAD these feats to 5th, my DM and I worked it out as my character being able to fly for up to his Con modifier in minutes per short rest, period, as the limitation. And he had to be level 6 before he could FLY at all. As in the original feat, at 12, he'll be able to fly at will.

Just an example and an idea.

[SwordChuck]

can someone explain to me what's the big deal in flight?

It makes people need to actually think outside the box and not rely on the same old tired type of gameplay.

Many DMs think that flight makes the game too easy when really it's just that they need to think outside the box.

[AbyssStalker]

Soon, my bear brethren.

I cannot bear to imagine it! It's too grizzly to think about, I think I'll go smoke a cub and cigar to get my mind off of it! :smallsmile:

But no really if you want to give your players the possibility to fly it shouldn't be to hard to account for, if it starts to get abused there are plenty of ways to ensure it doesn't gets abused less, namely heavy winds, a spell-caster with any kind of mobility disable (hold person will wreck a flier), if they are in a cave have stalactites hang from the ceiling that they must dodge as they move or risk a very humiliating fall,(or death if there are stalagmites below), if they are in a forest the tree leaves might obscure vision of the ground below (or the canopy may be so thick they can't fly entirely), any kind of a fight with drow and their ability to incapacitate with poison, the list goes on and on, if you experience trouble just mull it over and fix it in the next fight or session.

[Sitri]

Thank you everyone for the stories and suggestions thus far.


A carrying capacity nerf could be used, or say flying requires you to "carry" your own body weight; this makes it so you might need to drop your pack and such to take off, meaning you would be leaving behind your equipment if you fly across a chasm, or in the above case, the treasure you're supposed to move.

This is actually my favorite suggestion so far. I think requiring a str commitment from a person could reduce some of the min/max abuse that could go along with it.

My only hesitation is that as a general rule, I really hate to nerf stuff. Seeing as how this is an up front notification, perhaps it is not so bad.

Others thoughts on this?


I haven't had a problem with it. If you put a ceiling over them, they can't use their ability effectively, but you should also build some encounters for that character to really shine - just as you should for all of the other characters.

If you don't like flight at level 1, here's a way to make it less crazy:

Character creation at 1st level: NO flight
Character creation at 3rd level: 30 ft flight (Winged Tiefling Variant)
Character creation at 5th level: 50 ft flight (Aarakocra)

If someone has a character die, they can choose an option appropriate to their level. It's that easy, if you don't like flight at 1st level.


You can also split it into gliding (feather fall), then limited flight (short bursts like once per rest) followed by full flight over the first couple levels to ease into it.

Im playing a level 4 flying sun monk right now and having a blast. The indoor sections and harsh environments of the campaign do a good job of limiting its usefulness, as well as the shorter range on my attacks. Still great to have, but rarely an autowin.

I think a combination of these two will likely be my fall back if I get a lot of negative feedback about the carrying your own weight idea.


It makes people need to actually think outside the box and not rely on the same old tired type of gameplay.

Many DMs think that flight makes the game too easy when really it's just that they need to think outside the box.

As is beginning to be a trend, I don't think you could be more wrong. I am not so concerned with how do I make encounters meaningful as how do I make all characters in encounters meaningful. If an entire party wanted to take flying races, I would have no concerns. It is when one person just does from level 1 with no resource expenditure what it takes another person a third level spell and concentration to do that I see a recipe for problems. In my experience DMing other editions, character imbalance is the killer of games more than anything else. Sure I can just say, everyone can find easy access to flight now (or some other 3rd level spell concentration effect), but that is a pretty big leap from how this edition is designed just to include a couple of more extreme race choices that no one would question if I cut out.

[SwordChuck]

Thank you everyone for the stories and suggestions thus far.



This is actually my favorite suggestion so far. I think requiring a str commitment from a person could reduce some of the min/max abuse that could go along with it.

My only hesitation is that as a general rule, I really hate to nerf stuff. Seeing as how this is an up front notification, perhaps it is not so bad.

Others thoughts on this?





I think a combination of these two will likely be my fall back if I get a lot of negative feedback about the carrying your own weight idea.



As is beginning to be a trend, I don't think you could be more wrong. I am not so concerned with how do I make encounters meaningful as how do I make all characters in encounters meaningful. If an entire party wanted to take flying races, I would have no concerns. It is when one person just does from level 1 with no resource expenditure what it takes another person a third level spell and concentration to do that I see a recipe for problems. In my experience DMing other editions, character imbalance is the killer of games more than anything else. Sure I can just say, everyone can find easy access to flight now (or some other 3rd level spell concentration effect), but that is a pretty big leap from how this edition is designed just to include a couple of more extreme race choices that no one would question if I cut out.

First it's a little too late to try and make the game balanced, that ship has sailed unless you want to heavily homebrew the game.

Secondly, it isn't your problem or goal to make all characters meaningful, only the players can do that. As a DM you craft challenges and obstacles, the players and not YOU, will decide who is meaningful.

If you make meaningful situations then the players will all be able to make themselves useful in some way. If you suck at that part of being a DM then players may not be able to make their PC meaningful.

Basically, do you job as DM and let the players do their job as players.

Also you seem to be putting the cart before the horse, there is no issue yet but you are here trying to fix the (non-existent) issue.

[ThatKreacher]

I'm starting a campaign with a character who wanted wings, and was also uneasy at the idea of having a character that could fly. I figured that since it would be an underdark campaign, which has lots of opportunities for tight tunnels and low ceiling caves, and also drow crossbows. I ruled that they could have wings, from first level, that at 5th level would have a speed of 15 feet, at 11th 30 feet and at 17th 60 feet.

[snacksmoto]

Careful not to overdo it though, lest Guy at the Gym makes an ugly appearance.
Besides, it may only be a partial solution. Dex based ranged characters and casters generally don't carry much and get the most benefit in combat for flying since they usually want to hang back outside of melee anyway.


The thing is that it just seems strange to me that a race that is known for its ability to fly would only have a few higher level members able to fly. One doesn't expect that a select few young adult birds are the only members of that bird species to be able to fly. What's wrong with the multitude of other young adult birds? Did they not learn how to fly when they were younger?

Personally, level gating works mechanically but not thematically. The only real thematic limitation that I can see comes from the character's strength combined with a low flight encumbrance. It was an idea off the cuff and I realize that there's always the danger of Guy at the Gym. By all means, tweak with the numbers if it works.

The idea I present stems from the idea that, yes, ranged flight combat vs. only melee is supposed to have a big advantage but that's a best case scenario. Worst case is that the opponent has magical or mundane means to counter flight, introducing fall damage. Aerial opponents could even grapple the aerial character, causing both of them to fall. The grappler could break the grapple in time to brake their fall, hopefully giving the grappled character insufficient reaction time to break their fall before hitting the ground. I remember that there were aerial grappling and reaction time rules in one of the 2nd edition softcover books, Draconomicon, that might be converted.

Pretty much any melee only opponent vs. aerial ranged will retreat while finding cover and neutralizing terrain. They won't stand around flailing around uselessly. Heck, they probably won't even attempt to engage in combat. Encounters can be designed with aerial and/or ranged opponents. A rear rank flying character no longer has the benefit of their front lines against aerial melee and, quite likely, no availability of cover from ranged opponents.

In non-combat scenarios the vertical mobility is an advantage but is typically limited to just that character. They aren't likely to be able to ferry the rest of the party over obstacles unless they're all small races, thus simply being light enough. Height has always been advantageous to scouting, but in turn the character is in the middle of the sky and easily spotted. If the character uses flight to scout ahead, they will likely be isolated from any party support should they encounter anything.

In situations that it works best, it can shine but so can any other ability in situations that they work best. I simply don't see racial flight as a game-breaking advantage. A high CHA/pursuasion expertise character works best in social situations isn't seen as game-breaking. A high AC/high HP character works best wading into the front lines of combat isn't seen as game-breaking either. They shine in their advantageous situations but every character has a weakness.