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View Full Version : Adventure Advice vs. Gestalt PCs



Karsh
2007-06-12, 11:41 PM
I have 3 friends that want to try D&D again after playing it once or twice over the past two years, and since there's only three of them, I'm going to let them be Gestalt characters, but I'm limiting them to the SRD. I'm starting them at level 10 because they've only played level 1 characters for a while and a level 4 character for a very brief time. This means that they shouldn't be able to optimize their characters too too much.

That being said... I want to humiliate them. I want to be rolling on the floor laughing as their 10th level gestalt monstrosities are rendered powerless in the most embarrassing manner possible.

That's right, ladies and gentlemen...

I'm going to sic Tucker's Kobolds on them.

So if anyone has advice for making maps of the Kobold's lair, or what insignificant challenges I should place after Tucker's Kobolds in the event that these characters survive the mundane beasties, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, just to get this out of the way...

Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun.

There.

Gralamin
2007-06-12, 11:50 PM
I have 3 friends that want to try D&D again after playing it once or twice over the past two years, and since there's only three of them, I'm going to let them be Gestalt characters, but I'm limiting them to the SRD. I'm starting them at level 10 because they've only played level 1 characters for a while and a level 4 character for a very brief time. This means that they shouldn't be able to optimize their characters too too much.

That being said... I want to humiliate them. I want to be rolling on the floor laughing as their 10th level gestalt monstrosities are rendered powerless in the most embarrassing manner possible.

That's right, ladies and gentlemen...

I'm going to sic Tucker's Kobolds on them.

So if anyone has advice for making maps of the Kobold's lair, or what insignificant challenges I should place after Tucker's Kobolds in the event that these characters survive the mundane beasties, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, just to get this out of the way...

Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun, Pun-Pun.

There.

Lots of tunnels, all rigged to collapsed. 4 rooms, around each corner, no more then 50 x 50 feet. Five Escape Tunnels, 4 of which are rigged to Collapse. Add in a lot of traps, some creative use of walls, and they will be ready to KILL you.

V - That is a good question. That makes me Look bad

Jack Mann
2007-06-12, 11:55 PM
Why do you want to humiliate them? Have they done something to annoy you?

Bassetking
2007-06-13, 12:10 AM
I'm... having difficulty seeing the allure, here.

"My friends are interested in re-acclimating themselves to a hobby we have all enjoyed, and are looking to more deeply involve themselves than they did before. My first thought is to allow them the opportunity to try new things, create some truly potent, rules-rich characters... And then hurl their ineffectiveness in their faces?"

This, gentle forum-goers, is the largest issue I have with Rule 0. While the GM is, ultimately the final arbitration, and is the be-all and end-all decider... There's a line.

Tokiko Mima
2007-06-13, 12:13 AM
So if anyone has advice for making maps of the Kobold's lair, or what insignificant challenges I should place after Tucker's Kobolds in the event that these characters survive the mundane beasties, it would be greatly appreciated.

There was a thread the other day on a 'Chinese -finger-trap' equivalent that might be fun if your goal is to embarass them.

Just construct a long corridor with an adamantium door sealed shut at the end. Next to the door, there's a lever. When the players pull this lever, the likewise superhard door they entered slams shut and a magic mouth appears and starts counting down from 60 to 0. Every time they pull down this lever the counter goes back to 60.

They can pull the lever as many times as they like to keep the counter going. When they finally give up and let the timer run to 0, both doors open and the lever stops functioning. There is no peril whatsoever.

This works best if you set it up by having other traps have magic mouth timers that do nasty things, like start lava flows, or collapse rooms, so that the players learn in advance that letting the counter hit 0 is bad. This is a very evil trap and your players will hate you for it if you manage to fool them. :smalltongue:

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-13, 12:36 AM
While they are nifty, such traps are intricate and overly magical; far too non-utilitarian for such low-level creatures as Tucker's Kobolds! They are much better suited for one of those weird "quest dungeons" or the domicile of a mad wizard. :smallwink:

In a simpler vein:
Your players should not see a single kobold that is not an illusion (or a readied action away from escape). They stay in the walls and ceiling, firing those nasty little Crossbows of Attrition.
See if you can lure anyone into Small-sized (or smaller, even, with cunning use of silent image) tunnels, where movement and battle would be severely restricted; once there, stab the hapless tunnel-rat with Dex-reducing, poison-coated spears, set the oil-soaked ground under him afire, and collapse the tunnel in front and behind him.
Use razor-wires, suspended 3.25 feet in the air, and trap-doors that can only hold 45 lbs. before opening over the spiked, oil-soaked eight-foot pit.
If your party is foolish enough to travel without an unquenchable light-source, punish them. Remember, kobolds have darkvision; furthermore, even first-level adepts can cast obscuring mist (and then duck back into those deadly tunnels).

Finally: be nice to them! They may be all the players you can get!

skywalker
2007-06-13, 12:44 AM
I have 3 friends that want to try D&D again after playing it once or twice over the past two years, and since there's only three of them, I'm going to let them be Gestalt characters, but I'm limiting them to the SRD. I'm starting them at level 10 because they've only played level 1 characters for a while and a level 4 character for a very brief time. This means that they shouldn't be able to optimize their characters too too much.

That being said... I want to humiliate them. I want to be rolling on the floor laughing as their 10th level gestalt monstrosities are rendered powerless in the most embarrassing manner possible.


This is the worst sort of DMing attitude. My advice is to get out of the DM chair before you lose yourself at least 3 prospects for fun gaming, and possibly 3 friends.

Karsh
2007-06-13, 12:44 AM
We're friends and they'll find it amusing. It's not going to be too horrible, and that's why I'm putting stuff after Tucker's Kobolds so that they don't have to do Kobold hell for the entire one-shot.


I just want to prove a point that even 10th level gestalts can be brought to their knees by the lowly kobold.

EDIT: People read too much into the over-dramatic nature of my post. I just want to sic Tucker's Kobolds on them and see how they do, and am asking for advice on how to best go about doing so.

Like a Lion
2007-06-13, 01:44 AM
And the best way to do so is to not do it. That sort of crap is bound to instill bad feelings, as no one likes being humiliated or feeling useless. Seriously, "lots of weeny critters plus traps worth more GP than they could possibly scrounge up" are annoying as hell even WITHOUT the intent to humiliate.

So, drop it. Skip the "kobold hell". Run them through something fun.

Jack Mann
2007-06-13, 01:59 AM
Tucker's kobolds can be fun, but it's best as a change of pace, when they've grown bored with regular encounters. Put them through some regular encounters. Especially, their first encounter or two should be reasonably easy, to help acclimate them to the game. Let them feel powerful. Once they're into the routine, then start throwing curveballs. And not to humiliate them, but to challenge them.

Part of the draw of D&D is the chance to feel like a hero. Give them a taste of that first.

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-13, 02:25 AM
I won't tell you what to do with your players, since everyone else is doing that better than I ever could.

Advice on the adventure, though... what kind of dungeon are you looking for? A small warren, a vast complex, a hollowed-out mountain, a wyvern-inhabited shrine? What is the surrounding terrain?

Karsh
2007-06-13, 02:45 PM
Ok, well, I asked for advice, you've given it, and I'll take it.

I'll have to save Tucker's Kobolds for another day.

How should I gauge CRs with the party? Since there's only three of them, the encounters will be more difficult, but since they're Gestalt, they'll be easier. I'm thinking I should just increase the CR of each encounter by 1 and call it even?

I think I'm going to send them on a quest to kill a dragon, probably something from the Draconomicon. The environment will, of course, depend on what kind of dragon I want to send them after, but probably a Fang or Shadow dragon.