Player wants to transfer over a class

[draxsiss]

Hi,

I have started up a Path finder game and I would love to allow my players to play a dread necromancer (it was my favorate class as a pc) I have attempted to create a new "pathfinder" friendly Dread necromancer however I have no idea if its too good/not good enough.

BaB Poor
Will Good
Ref Poor
D8 HD
Skill points 3


1 Channel negative energy, Light armor, Charled touch, command undead
2 Lich body
3 Advanced learning
4 Undead mastery 1
5 Transformation 1
6 Craft wonderous item (bonus feat)
7 Familar
8 Undead master 2
9 Component focus
10 Transformation 2
11 Fear aura
12Undead master 3
13
14
15Transformation 3
16 Undead master 4
17 Component focus 2
18Enervating touch
19
20 Complete transformation, Master of Death


Channels negative energy as a cleric.
Charled touch, Touch attack usable once a round at will, Damage same as turn damage.

Lich body DR 1 magic and blunt (increase by 1 every other level)

Advanced Learning: Can add a Necromancy or Evil spell to spell list OR may add any cleric/wizard spell but its level is treated as 1 high then normal. This is gained every 3 levels.

Undead master 1, Undead you summon or create gain +2 str/dex +1 HP on each hit dice, +1 natural armor. You can control the normal amount a spell grants + half charisma per caster level.
Undead master 2 as undead master 1 except +4str/dex +2 hp per hit dice and +2 natural armor, Control your charisma + normal amount allowable by spell per level.
Undead master 3 as undead master 1 except +6 str/dex +3hp per hit dice, +3 natural armor and +1.5X your charisma + normal amount allowable by spell per level.

Bonus Feats: at level 1 you gain command undead as a bonus feat, at level 6 you gain craft wonderous item as a bonus feat,

Inproved familiar, Choose an Imp or Quisit

Component focus 1 Your necromancy spells only require half the price of materal components (still require full price focus)
Component focus 2 Your necromancy spells require no components (still require full price focus)

Transformation 1, You are now undead, your con score becomes - +0 your bonus hp are caculated by charisma, you gain turn resistance +6, you do not need to eat/sleep or breath. You are healed by negitive energy (like your turning, Charaled touch and inflict spells) You are harmed by positive energy.

Transformation 2 You gain +2 Cha/Int/Wis. You gain strong spell weaving (people attempting to dispel your spells take a -4) +2 insight bonus on Linguistics,Knowledge (all), Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device checks.


Transformation 3 You gain +2 Str/Dex You gain gain cursed touch,+4 on perception, sense motive and Stealth, Your Charled touch improves by one die size. (D8's instead of D6's) +3 natural armour


Complete transformation You gain the Dread Lich Template. You do not have to pay for your phylactery, any improvements or changes do not stack with Transformation 1-3. You have not "raised" yourself as such you do NOT benefit from Undead master and Death master. However may cast desecrate when you perform the ritual if you so choose.

Death Master, Your Master of undead is at its Peek, All undead you create gain +8 str/dex +4 HP per HD, +5 Natural armour. You no longer have a undead creation cap.


Is this reasonable or too good?

Edit

Planned on keeping the spell list the same with the exception of adding circle of protection from evil/good/law/chaos (since they need it for planer binding) adding animate lesser, and making Death ward a level 3 only spell.

[Krazzman]

First things first: did you follow the official conversion guide (http://paizo.com/products/btpy89m6?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Conversion-Guide)?

Else I would give him Channel Energy (as an Evil Cleric).
BAB, Skillpoints and Saves stay the same.
Hitdice raised to d8.
Maybe give him the special abilities in line of the Bones/Undead Bloodline (see sorcerer)
Maybe fix some of the shortcomings of the class (Circle Protection stuff and so on).

Keep in mind that "unlimited healing" isn't really the goal of the class. Maybe change the charnel touch and so on into a lay on hands equivalent (see Anti-Paladin) where it makes sense.

Hope this helps.

[draxsiss]

First things first: did you follow the

I did not know this was a thing. Thank you very much this will help ALOT

Else I would give him Channel Energy (as an Evil Cleric).
BAB, Skillpoints and Saves stay the same.
Hitdice raised to d8.
Maybe give him the special abilities in line of the Bones/Undead Bloodline (see sorcerer)
Maybe fix some of the shortcomings of the class (Circle Protection stuff and so on).

Keep in mind that "unlimited healing" isn't really the goal of the class. Maybe change the charnel touch and so on into a lay on hands equivalent (see Anti-Paladin) where it makes sense.

Hope this helps.
As a DM I don't really care about "unlimited healing" a self resetting trap of cure light wounds is really cheap (or lesser vigor or any other healing spell of choice) If anything its going to hurt him more then help him because Positive energy is what 90% of everyone else uses to heal.

[Alex12]

It also might not be a bad idea to give the DN a few cantrips like every other full casting class and many partial casters get. Possibilities include: Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Bleed (I realize that Charnel Touch as it was in 3.5 would be better in almost every circumstance, but stick it in because it's thematic and maybe they'd want to use it for magic item crafting), Penumbra, Touch of Fatigue, maybe Ghost Sound or Enhanced Diplomacy (because ghosts are undead, and for Intimidate buffs, respectively), and, even though it's a level 1 spell for most, possibly Detect Undead. This would keep them more-or-less focused on core DN stuff.

Also probably want to stick Desecrate into the spell list, mainly for the undead-buffing ability.

As for turning, I'd suggest Energy Channeling as an evil cleric starting from level 1, and then at level 3, when 3.5 gave them Negative Energy Burst, give them Command Undead as a bonus feat.
I'd also suggest porting over Tomb-Tainted Soul from 3.5, and perhaps even giving it to them at level 1 as a free bonus feat.

[Vertharrad]

Would this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?353181-Dread-Necromancer-Pathfinder-update-%28WIP%29) help?

[Florian]

I´d not convert a class when functional replacement already exists.
- Bone Oracle.
- Necroccultist Occultist.

[OldTrees1]

I´d not convert a class when functional replacement already exists.
- Bone Oracle.
- Necroccultist Occultist.

As someone that has played both a Dread Necromancer and a Bone Oracle:
The Oracle, while functional, is not a functional replacement

The conversion in the OP looks fine, but the minimum change conversion(convert skills & rebuke undead) would be fine too.

[Florian]

As someone that has played both a Dread Necromancer and a Bone Oracle:
The Oracle, while functional, is not a functional replacement

The conversion in the OP looks fine, but the minimum change conversion(convert skills & rebuke undead) would be fine too.

A conversion does not only need to conform to the original class, it has to mesh well with the classes of the intended system/edition, too. Therein lies the problem with the Dread Necromancer (and the Beguiler).

The main point here will always be how the specifics of spell casting will be ported over and how well the PF-spcific use of subsystems is adopted.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Pathfinder is functionally identical to 3.5. I've mixed classes (even weird ones like Totemist) before without any trouble. You just need to convert skills, spell lists (if they include non core spells), and little things like Turn Undead if you care about consistency.

[Florian]

Pathfinder is functionally identical to 3.5. I've mixed classes (even weird ones like Totemist) before without any trouble. You just need to convert skills, spell lists (if they include non core spells), and little things like Turn Undead if you care about consistency.

Core? Maybe. Later books? No, not by a long shot.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Core? Maybe. Later books? No, not by a long shot.
Yes, by any shot. Pathfinder has some of its own philosophies and sub-subsystems (eg, teamwork feats), but they're pretty minor, and it's not like 3.5 was particularly coherent either. The rules are pretty much the same, the balance point is pretty much the same (ie, depends entirely on group optimization levels), and the underlying assumptions are pretty much the same.

[draxsiss]

Thank you all your input has been very helpful in getting a ported option over to my character. I find that the one linked one rather lacking in that it both fails to provide the capstone ability (lichdom) and at the same time ALSO gives you bunch of skill you don't want. Mid to high level Dread necromancers don't want to be in the thick of combat thats why they have minions! So all the Charled touch upgrades are basically valueless. Most would happy trade all of them to make the ability at will and make my lichdom real. :P However it was a really good base for the other options.


Once again thank you this has been very helpful and insightful.