Godsmoot is all fun, But...

[guguma]

Hello All,

I have been enjoying this Godsmoot story arc, humor is consistent, funny, art is well executed yet the story does not make much sense especially with strips 1016-1017.

Gods are trying to give an important decision about whether to destroy the world, faced with the danger of the Snarl, and obviously they need to make this decision "urgently", since there is only one gate remaining. I understand Hel's last minute tricks to manipulate votes, given that voting is finished in a short time but at this point it has turned into an elaborate plot. However, I find it really hard to buy Dvalin's excuse in delaying the votes. If this is the case, every single God who does not wish the world to end can come up with an excuse to delay their votes, until the gate/Snarl situation is resolved by the mortals making the Godsmoot invalid.

[Porthos]

It's not an "excuse" though as he almost certainly wants the world to survive. Thing is though, he takes his oaths VERY seriously. So much so that he is willing to take the chance that the world is ripped asunder in the next couple of days.

Now one might complain that someone shouldn't take their oaths that seriously. But, well, he's apparently the type to never break an oath. What's one gonna do?

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, in order to do that, they would have had to not vote already.

I'm guessing each god expects their side of the vote to win and therefore sees no need to procrastinate on the vote. These are gods, after all -- I'd say that overweening hubris kind of comes with the territory.

Alternatively, the gods are so intelligent (despite seeming like morons) that they can predict very accurately which way the vote will go. They had no way of knowing that those predictions would be thrown out the window by the literally unprecedented arrival of a High Priest of Hel.

[PallentisLunam]

Dwarves are often described as very lawful and bound by tradition. Rich has said on a few occasions that outsiders are the embodiments of their respective alignments. Therefore it is safe to assume that the demigod that was once the king of the dwarves is now a lawful outsider. He cannot do anything but honor his oaths.

[KorvinStarmast]

Dwarves are often described as very lawful and bound by tradition. Rich has said on a few occasions that outsiders are the embodiments of their respective alignments. Therefore it is safe to assume that the demigod that was once the king of the dwarves is now a lawful outsider. He cannot do anything but honor his oaths.

This. Rich has mostly played Celia in that mode, all of her shenanigans as defense lawyer considered: her shouting match with Haley is rooted in her being so hard core (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0621.html), alignment-wise.

[Peelee]

Also, that no one filibustered does not mean that it isn't allowed.

[PallentisLunam]

This. Rich has mostly played Celia in that mode, all of her shenanigans as defense lawyer considered: her shouting match with Haley is rooted in her being so hard core (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0621.html), alignment-wise.

Celia isn't an outsider. She is a fey and therefore can violate her principles. She is hard line in her alignment because that is her character, not her essence.

[torugo]

Yea.

Why didnt he Just call for the elders tô give their decision before the godsmoot?

If he Cant ever make a decision by his own and this happened before he should have asked previously

[KorvinStarmast]

Celia isn't an outsider. She is a fey and therefore can violate her principles. She is hard line in her alignment because that is her character, not her essence.As written, she is an outsider. Reference is here:

Haley, I'm an outsider, I can't be raised from the dead. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0603.html)

[PallentisLunam]

Huh, I could have sworn there was a giant quote discussing the 3 fiends and mentioning Celia as not being bound by the same rules as they are but I can't find it.

[PallentisLunam]

Yea.

Why didnt he Just call for the elders tô give their decision before the godsmoot?

If he Cant ever make a decision by his own and this happened before he should have asked previously

Why didn't he ask for an answer to a question he didn't know? :smallconfused:

[Grey Watcher]

I am disappointed in this thread:

Clearly, the Godsmoot is all fun and games until somebody loses an aye.

:smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

I am disappointed in this thread:

Clearly, the Godsmoot is all fun and games until somebody loses an aye.

:smallbiggrin:

Eh, it's not like anyone has an official Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.

[Mordar]

I am disappointed in this thread:

Clearly, the Godsmoot is all fun and games until somebody loses an aye.

:smallbiggrin:


Eh, it's not like anyone has an official Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.

But...Odin...

Oh, so that's what really happened, and the whole 2-birds thing was just a cover story so his mom wouldn't get mad...?

[torugo]

Yeah....All priests seemed tô bê soooooo surprised about the tópic of the godsmoot.
Especially durkula...




Why didn't he ask for an answer to a question he didn't know? :smallconfused:

[PallentisLunam]

Yeah....All priests seemed tô bê soooooo surprised about the tópic of the godsmoot.
Especially durkula...

I'm typing on a phone and got auto corrected. That second "he" is supposed to be a "they" because while you're correct that the gods and their priests seem to be in the loop about the agenda for the godsmoot I doubt that all the leaders of the dwarves clans would know and we have plenty of evidence that the moot and its primary topic are not common knowledge.

[torugo]

All the high priest had tô do is ask the elders in advance with a sending spell...man this could bê done in só Many ways...they are dwarfs...all they Need is an oath that the elders wont spread the content tô others and its cool tô ask...


I'm typing on a phone and got auto corrected. That second "he" is supposed to be a "they" because while you're correct that the gods and their priests seem to be in the loop about the agenda for the godsmoot I doubt that all the leaders of the dwarves clans would know and we have plenty of evidence that the moot and its primary topic are not common knowledge.

[PallentisLunam]

All the high priest had tô do is ask the elders in advance with a sending spell...man this could bê done in só Many ways...they are dwarfs...all they Need is an oath that the elders wont spread the content tô others and its cool tô ask...

There might be too many elders to make sending viable. Plus the giant has already played the 25 word limit for gags.

[Jasdoif]

Huh, I could have sworn there was a giant quote discussing the 3 fiends and mentioning Celia as not being bound by the same rules as they are but I can't find it.You might be thinking of something else. Unless sylphs in OotS have the Lawful subtype, there's no reason to think anything's compelling Celia towards Lawful behavior.


There might be too many elders to make sending viable. Plus the giant has already played the 25 word limit for gags.My guess is that Dvalin could be/feel obligated to provide as much information about the proceedings to the elders as possible, to ensure they can make the best decision they're capable of; that couldn't be done in advance. Such details as which deities voted yes, which deities voted no, what reasons and speeches were given (which includes Hel's speech in this particular case), etc.

[Pyrous]

All the high priest had tô do is ask the elders in advance with a sending spell...man this could bê done in só Many ways...they are dwarfs...all they Need is an oath that the elders wont spread the content tô others and its cool tô ask...

Dvalin should know how the Gods would vote for the same reason Hel did (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?437288-So-did-Hel-know-how-the-gods-would-vote&p=19736800#post19736800). As nobody was expecting Hel to show up, he didn't want to bother the dwarven council with a vote he probably wouldn't need to cast.

EDIT: Jasdoif's explanation above seems to fit Dvalin's personality better.

[guguma]

This thread took an interesting turn...

I did not want to focus on the question of "Why Dvalin is acting in this manner?" but rather "why is the voting allowed to be delayed when the matter at hand is obviously urgent?".

If the Gods had all the time they needed to have a decision, it makes the arguments for and against the destruction of the world, addressed by the Gods previously, invalid.

Any God who is not in favor of the destruction of the world could simply have come up with an excuse of say "meditating with their x number of priests for y days to see things clearly" and thus preventing the destruction altogether.

Basically what I am saying is that what made the Godsmoot arc feel grim, important and strong was the urgency of the situation. The situation with Durkula, and some rounds of fighting added to the tension. But when the story advanced in the manner of the last two strips, it took away from the power of the setting and/or situation.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Huh, I could have sworn there was a giant quote discussing the 3 fiends and mentioning Celia as not being bound by the same rules as they are but I can't find it.

You are thinking of Round 4 & 7 commentaries in DStP:

It's important to note that this doesn't necessarily make Celia right in her views. Heck, they're not even all that consistent, considering she has been known to fly off the handle and zap people from time to time. Because, see, Celia isn't a deva or an angel; she's not an embodiment of Law or Good. She can mistakes and screw up, and she can fail to live up to her own ideals, as she does later when she finds herself cheering while Haley shoots people. She wants to be a pacifist, but she can get caught up in the excitement of battle the same as anyone else.


The entire point of their organization is to blur the lines between the the three fiendish races (demon, daemon, devil) and depict cooperation where normally one would expect backbiting and betrayal. So here, we have a slightly less neutral daemon, a slightly more chaotic devil, and a slightly more lawful demon (one who went to college with devils, even).

Celia and angels are both outsiders, but while Celia is an embodiment of air (and therefore doesn't have a required alignment), angels and demons do.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

I suspect the problem here is that you're thinking in terms of either, "This two-day wait to poll the dwarven leaders will take months of real-world time and the gods should treat it like a delay of months!" or, "For these two days, the gods will not know whether a lot of people they care about will be destroyed!"

From the gods' perspective, two days is an eye-blink and only Hel's scheme to be the new Queen of the Northern Pantheon makes this really important. So they won't know for two days whether they have to overturn the game board and start over with a new set of playing pieces--oh well! Such is bureaucracy, and it's infinitely preferable to actual people (read: gods) dying, like happened when the gods tried to resolve their differences without an established procedure!

[PallentisLunam]

You are thinking of Round 4 & 7 commentaries in DStP:

Celia and angels are both outsiders, but while Celia is an embodiment of air (and therefore doesn't have a required alignment), angels and demons do.

Grey Wolf

Yes, that. I remembered it a little wrong but those are the quotes. Thank you