crit fishing bloodstorm blade

[ihuk]

So i wont play this for a while, but i thought the idea of a crit fishing bloodstorm blade would be a fun gimmick to try to make. the current plan is for warblade 5/bloodstorm blade 4/master thrower 1/ disciple of dispater 8/warblade 2 race human

feats
1 weapon focus, power attack
3 point blank shot
5 (from warblade)improved initiative
6 combat expertise
8(from bloodstorm blade) precise shot
9 disciple of darkness
12 improved critical
15 power critical
18 ???

point blank shot, combat expertise, disciple of darkness, precise shot are required for prerequisites, master thrower can make my crit multiplier go up so i consider it a great dip

[LoyalPaladin]

Knowledge that was once passed to me, I will now pass to you. Take a look into Kaorti Resin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a). It is the material for crit-fishers.

[Xervous]

Knowledge that was once passed to me, I will now pass to you. Take a look into Kaorti Resin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a). It is the material for crit-fishers.

Kaorti Resin is incompatible with DoD's Iron Power.

Lightning Mace + adaptive kukris comes up a lot when DoD and crit fishing are mentioned.

[AvatarVecna]

DoD is pretty standard for crit-fishers, although some DMs are wary about allowing 3.0 material for reasons like this. Using Aptitude Kukris to apply Lightning Mace to a 15-20 crit range weapon is pretty cheesy, but if your DM allows that, they'll probably also allow you to apply Roundabout Kick to the kukris, which gives you an extra attack when you confirm a crit. Everything combined together, you basically destroy whatever you were attacking, as long as you can hit it (Blood in the Water stance helps here, as does Knowledge Devotion and continuous "Wraith Strike", since your throws count as melee for the purposes of attack rolls).

Also, exchanging 2 levels of Warblade for Fighter at some point gives you a couple extra feats to work with, as well as boosting your Fort save a bit; there's enough feats that help your build for you to never have all the feats you want, so anything helps...speaking of which, I notice you're not taking any flaws; DM forbid them, or did you just not think of them?

[ihuk]

flaws tend not to be allowed. im semi intending for this build to be based around a falchion, if i cant talk the dm into allowing me to use a thrown shield that does 2d4 damage with the same crit range.(parallels to captain america were unintentional but would be hilarious to do) while throwing two kukri is more efficient, it just doesnt seem to be quite as...fun? interesting? im not sure the words i want.

[AvatarVecna]

flaws tend not to be allowed. im semi intending for this build to be based around a falchion, if i cant talk the dm into allowing me to use a thrown shield that does 2d4 damage with the same crit range.(parallels to captain america were unintentional but would be hilarious to do) while throwing two kukri is more efficient, it just doesnt seem to be quite as...fun? interesting? im not sure the words i want.

Oh dear...you'll want to be careful about that, if your DM is pretty familiar with the thrown rules (or becomes familiar with them to accommodate your character): a two-handed weapon takes a full round action to throw, and thus can't be used with iteratives. If this is a huge issue for you, you might want to look at downgrading to a one-handed weapon, which can be thrown multiple times a round just fine.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh dear...you'll want to be careful about that, if your DM is pretty familiar with the thrown rules (or becomes familiar with them to accommodate your character): a two-handed weapon takes a full round action to throw, and thus can't be used with iteratives. If this is a huge issue for you, you might want to look at downgrading to a one-handed weapon, which can be thrown multiple times a round just fine.
Bloodstorm Blade's Thunderous Throw should I think solve that.

[glitterbaby]

Is this type of build possible in only eight levels? I'm really curious about a Dungeon Crashing Bloodstorm Blade, doesn't necessarily have to be a crit fisher.

[AvatarVecna]

Bloodstorm Blade's Thunderous Throw should I think solve that.

Not by RAW it doesn't:


Thunderous Throw (Ex):

Beginning at 2nd level, you build up incredible tension as you ready yourself to throw your weapon, which becomes visible around you like heat waves. When you release your weapon, that power rushes out with your weapon. As a swift action, you can choose to treat your ranged attack rolls with thrown weapons as melee attacks for the rest of your turn. You use your melee attack bonus, including Strength bonus, feats, and so forth, to determine your attack bonus for each attack as normal, but you apply the standard modifiers for range penalties. Attacking into melee, through cover, and so forth incurs the standard penalties. In addition, you can apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage if you wield the thrown weapon with two hands, and you can use Power Attack with your thrown weapon attacks (adding two times the number subtracted from attack rolls as a bonus on damage rolls when throwing a twohanded weapon).

All sounds pretty nice, right? You're making a melee attack roll, even though most of the ranged attack rules are still applying, but you're making a melee attack roll so that changes things right? Wrong, because changing which attack roll you're using doesn't change what kind of weapon you're using, and you're using a thrown weapon.


Thrown Weapons

Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

These are the rules that apply to thrown weapons, including weapons not designed to be thrown where applicable. The action it takes to throw a weapon depends only on the size of the weapon, not what attack roll you're using. Since you are still throwing the weapon when using "Thunderous Throw", you still have to abide by these rules except for where Thunderous Throw overrules them, and Thunderous Throw has no text changing the action it takes to attack with a two-handed thrown weapon (or a two-handed weapon being thrown).

[AvatarVecna]

Is this type of build possible in only eight levels? I'm really curious about a Dungeon Crashing Bloodstorm Blade, doesn't necessarily have to be a crit fisher.

Bloodstorm Blade 4 is what allows you to make multiple thrown weapon attacks a round with the same weapon (as long as the rules allow you to throw such a weapon multiple times a round), and that comes online at lvl 9, barring early entry cheese. It's easier to pull off if you can convince your DM to port over the Blinkback Belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-blink-back) from Pathfinder, because then you don't need to spend 4 levels on Bloodstorm Blade getting that ultra-returning ability (although you might still want two levels to get "Thunderous Throw").

[glitterbaby]

Bloodstorm Blade 4 is what allows you to make multiple thrown weapon attacks a round with the same weapon (as long as the rules allow you to throw such a weapon multiple times a round), and that comes online at lvl 9, barring early entry cheese. It's easier to pull off if you can convince your DM to port over the Blinkback Belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-blink-back) from Pathfinder, because then you don't need to spend 4 levels on Bloodstorm Blade getting that ultra-returning ability (although you might still want two levels to get "Thunderous Throw").

Would that item only allow two attacks then? I think I remember there being an issue with something similar to this with the Gnomish Quickrazor and Iajutsu Focus? Something about Quick Draw not being Quick Sheath?

[AvatarVecna]

Would that item only allow two attacks then? I think I remember there being an issue with something similar to this with the Gnomish Quickrazor and Iajutsu Focus? Something about Quick Draw not being Quick Sheath?

No, that's only usually a problem for Iaijutsu Focus, because Iaijutsu Focus stuff only works immediately after drawing the weapon. With the Blinkback Belt, it teleports into the sheath on its own after the attack is resolved, with no action necessary on your part to make that happen; as long as you've got Quick Draw, you can draw it again as a free action, and can keep doing that as long as your DM doesn't limit how many free actions you can make a round.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

No, that's only usually a problem for Iaijutsu Focus, because Iaijutsu Focus stuff only works immediately after drawing the weapon. With the Blinkback Belt, it teleports into the sheath on its own after the attack is resolved, with no action necessary on your part to make that happen; as long as you've got Quick Draw, you can draw it again as a free action, and can keep doing that as long as your DM doesn't limit how many free actions you can make a round.I would suggest weapon crystals of return instead of Quick Draw, unless you need it as a prereq.

[glitterbaby]

No, that's only usually a problem for Iaijutsu Focus, because Iaijutsu Focus stuff only works immediately after drawing the weapon. With the Blinkback Belt, it teleports into the sheath on its own after the attack is resolved, with no action necessary on your part to make that happen; as long as you've got Quick Draw, you can draw it again as a free action, and can keep doing that as long as your DM doesn't limit how many free actions you can make a round.

For some reason I read "back into it's strap or sheath" as "back into the wielder's hands." Four more seconds spent reading the entry and I probably wouldn't have had that question :smalleek:


I would suggest weapon crystals of return instead of Quick Draw, unless you need it as a prereq.

That's usually what I go for too.

[AvatarVecna]

I would suggest weapon crystals of return instead of Quick Draw, unless you need it as a prereq.

Crystals of return are better than spending a feat slot on Quick Draw, sure. Quick Draw is vaguely useful as a pre-req for a few things, but the main reason I don't both with Crystals of Return on my thrown weapon builds is because a thrown weapon build without at least 1 level of Master Thrower is weird to me, and Master Thrower 1 gives you the feat for free, plus a thrown weapon trick of your choice. I like it, since I don't have to spend feats or money on drawing my weapons quickly. If you're not wanting Master Thrower for whatever reason, the crystals will suffice, of course.

[glitterbaby]

So would two-weapon fighting be better on a Bloodstorm Blade or two-handed? I'm feeling two-handed for the same reason that it's better on a regular melee, that being the greater returns from strength and Power Attack. What if you went and put Dungeoncrasher Fighter into the mix? Would more attacks (with two-weapon) end up being better?

[AvatarVecna]

So would two-weapon fighting be better on a Bloodstorm Blade or two-handed? I'm feeling two-handed for the same reason that it's better on a regular melee, that being the greater returns from strength and Power Attack. What if you went and put Dungeoncrasher Fighter into the mix? Would more attacks (with two-weapon) end up being better?

Two-weapon fighting, because Two-handed has to spend a full round action to attack, and thus only gets one attack. Sure, early on when you've only got one attack to work with, TWF and THW are roughly equivalent with THW having the advantage due to Power Attack, but as soon as you start getting iteratives, but because thrown TWF is compatable with iteratives where THW is not, TWF gets the advantage as soon as you've got more than a couple attacks to work with.