PDA

View Full Version : Gamer Tales How i built a car in medieval pathfinder



Megasaber4000
2016-01-04, 02:13 PM
Background: We're playing a fairly loose game of patched together modules and what ever the DM can think of; so we get a little leeway to be silly.
I play a Gnome sorcerer with a knack for invention (and cartography because I keep the map giving me knowledge of all the roads) so the DM let me have Craft: Invention as a skill ,and I can use so long as it pertains to my invention.

One day we go to a carnival full of carnies, elephants, skill checks you know the usual, but one stand had this small steam powered toy that looked something like this.
http://i.imgur.com/s4CmcZI.jpg
We ended up using it to solve some puzzle, but I got to keep it. After that when ever set up camp or I was on watch I would always say something about how I was sketching it or working on new design. During our travels I gathered tools and supplies even bought a wagon. Then when we were in a city all having our own sub-adventures, but while the barbarian is getting drunk and the cleric is at church, I rent out a workshop full of supplies and so my work begins.

I craft four tires made of fur and straw, then bind them the the wagons wheels, next is the engine I hook a cauldron of holding (don't ask) up to a masterwork paddle. The paddle then turns a chain which turns gears connected to the back wheels. By now the DM has figured out what i'm planning and asks how I plan to heat the water into steam without burning the wood and fur wagon. Sadly for her I happen to have specialized in fire spells. Early in the game we determined I could control the heat of my fire and even slowly melt metal if I rolled high for long enough- thus boiling water is not a problem.

I proudly took it out on a test run only to find i forgot about a steering mechanism. After a couple repairs and some basic machinery later I've invented the car. The DM was impressed and my party started to cover ground a lot faster after that. Later it would be patented and some dwarfs called the forge wizards want to buy said patent.

Douche
2016-01-04, 02:58 PM
That's a pretty funny situation. Since you seem to have invented the steam engine, I would advise against selling the patent. Better to start a railroad company and become a corporate baron as you watch the world industrialize around you.

Taejang
2016-01-04, 03:12 PM
That's awesome.


That's a pretty funny situation. Since you seem to have invented the steam engine, I would advise against selling the patent. Better to start a railroad company and become a corporate baron as you watch the world industrialize around you.
This. Also, steam boats. Ironclads for defense and attack. Recreate the East Indies shipping company and literally rule the world. Just need to get gunpowder (which I believe exists in Forgotten Realms, though as a closely guarded secret; not sure about Pathfinder).

Also note, there was an American Civil War design for submarines which you may find interesting.

halfeye
2016-01-04, 03:21 PM
Background: We're playing a fairly loose game of patched together modules and what ever the DM can think of; so we get a little leeway to be silly.
I play a Gnome sorcerer with a knack for invention (and cartography because I keep the map giving me knowledge of all the roads) so the DM let me have Craft: Invention as a skill ,and I can use so long as it pertains to my invention.

One day we go to a carnival full of carnies, elephants, skill checks you know the usual, but one stand had this small steam powered toy that looked something like this.
http://i.imgur.com/s4CmcZI.jpg
We ended up using it to solve some puzzle, but I got to keep it. After that when ever set up camp or I was on watch I would always say something about how I was sketching it or working on new design. During our travels I gathered tools and supplies even bought a wagon. Then when we were in a city all having our own sub-adventures, but while the barbarian is getting drunk and the cleric is at church, I rent out a workshop full of supplies and so my work begins.

I craft four tires made of fur and straw, then bind them the the wagons wheels, next is the engine I hook a cauldron of holding (don't ask) up to a masterwork paddle. The paddle then turns a chain which turns gears connected to the back wheels. By now the DM has figured out what i'm planning and asks how I plan to heat the water into steam without burning the wood and fur wagon. Sadly for her I happen to have specialized in fire spells. Early in the game we determined I could control the heat of my fire and even slowly melt metal if I rolled high for long enough- thus boiling water is not a problem.

I proudly took it out on a test run only to find i forgot about a steering mechanism. After a couple repairs and some basic machinery later I've invented the car. The DM was impressed and my party started to cover ground a lot faster after that. Later it would be patented and some dwarfs called the forge wizards want to buy said patent.
Well that's a game fully wrecked.

Which may turn into a good thing, but as it is, the situation as it was is no longer viable.

There may be a game in that somewhere, but I don't think it will be really possible to keep going once the wrecking hits, I can sort of see a planned second half working out, but the follow on from that will be unpredictable.

kraftcheese
2016-01-04, 09:30 PM
Well that's a game fully wrecked.

Which may turn into a good thing, but as it is, the situation as it was is no longer viable.

There may be a game in that somewhere, but I don't think it will be really possible to keep going once the wrecking hits, I can sort of see a planned second half working out, but the follow on from that will be unpredictable.

Why would the game be wrecked? I mean all the party has now is a way of getting places faster; and even if you're talking about the fact that the dwarves are gonna start an industrial revolution, I don't understand how that would affect the viability of a campaign?

napoleon_in_rag
2016-01-05, 10:06 AM
I craft four tires made of fur and straw, then bind them the the wagons wheels, next is the engine I hook a cauldron of holding (don't ask) up to a masterwork paddle. The paddle then turns a chain which turns gears connected to the back wheels. By now the DM has figured out what i'm planning and asks how I plan to heat the water into steam without burning the wood and fur wagon. Sadly for her I happen to have specialized in fire spells. Early in the game we determined I could control the heat of my fire and even slowly melt metal if I rolled high for long enough- thus boiling water is not a problem.


I am not sure if you are looking for an evaluation of your design, but I will give you two:

Fantasy Evaluation

Sure it'll work, but in a world with magic and flying carpets and dragons, why would you want a steam powered car?

Like when people want to put gunpowder in a campaign. As a ruler, why would I invest in developing gunpowder when I have wizards who can cast fireball?


Real World Evaluation

Won't work. At least as you've described it. A few reasons why:

-You say you crafted tires out of "fur and straw". I am not sure what your design is but if you check out you car's tires, you will see they have about 35 psi of air in them (more in a truck). They probably begin to flatten at 20 psi. Anything you've designed out of these materials would be destroyed by the weight of the vehicle.

-A steam system works in a loop. A simple system would be:
Boiler --> Expansion into steam --> Reciprocating Drive (Paddle?) --> Condensation into water --> Feed pump to return water to boiler
Without a return line, your system would quickly run out of water and steam. If you add cold water to the system, you would immediately lose steam and power. Even with a loop, you need some kind of feedwater tank to make sure the boiler always has enough water to operate.

-The steam system would be at hundreds of psi. I don't think medieval metallurgy was up to the task. No welding. No high grade steel. Everything would have to be hard piped. And if a connection went out, you would get a jet of steam that would fry who ever was standing nearby.

-Even without burning wood, the heat is going to set the cart on fire. Unless you have some kind of stone or clay refractory in between the boiler and the cart.

-Pretty much, a real world system like you've described would be like an early locomotive - No room on it to carry anything or anyone.

-Medieval roads sucked. That's why railroads were created. This car would not be a 4 wheel drive vehicle. Rails remove most of the friction from the system.

Git777
2016-01-05, 05:52 PM
I once invented a dishwasher by kicking a black pudding in to a stone chest then selling it to a local Inn.

Raimun
2016-01-05, 09:33 PM
I am not sure if you are looking for an evaluation of your design, but I will give you two:

Fantasy Evaluation

Sure it'll work, but in a world with magic and flying carpets and dragons, why would you want a steam powered car?

Like when people want to put gunpowder in a campaign. As a ruler, why would I invest in developing gunpowder when I have wizards who can cast fireball?


Excellent point. Early day science and engineering would just look lame in a world of magic. Most intelligent people would just take up wizardry, since progress there would be way faster. Taking up science would take more time and yield less gain.

Besides, even if one could come up with ideas for modern day technological inventions, that would not be enough. Most gamers who want to start industrial revolution at the time of catapults and bows, seem to forget that they would also need to invent the tools to make the tools that would make the tools that are required for the project. Modern day technology was not the brainchild of one human being and took hundrers of years. Meanwhile, one could become an archmage during his own natural life time.

Not to mention, it's very off-genre and eats up valuable time that could be spent suplexing dragons.

Shpadoinkle
2016-01-06, 01:35 AM
Like when people want to put gunpowder in a campaign. As a ruler, why would I invest in developing gunpowder when I have wizards who can cast fireball?

Firearms are stupidly simple to operate: You point and click. A four year old could grasp it. Furthermore, firearms have approximately a thousand-year history of being used on real-life battlefields (which means that, yes, guns and the classic heavily-armored mounted knight fought on the same battlefield regularly,) mostly because they were cheap and fairly easy to make.

Third, it would no doubt be a lot faster, easier, and cheaper, once gunpowder has been discovered and its production is well-understood, to commission twenty rifles and stick them in the hands of random conscripted peasants, who can fire them all day long provided they have the gunpowder and ammunition to do so, than it would be to train a single wizard from level 0 up to being able to throw around fireballs. The peasants would be a hell of a lot more replaceable, too.

Taejang
2016-01-06, 09:28 AM
Excellent point. Early day science and engineering would just look lame in a world of magic. Most intelligent people would just take up wizardry, since progress there would be way faster. Taking up science would take more time and yield less gain.
Not in the least.
1) Not everyone can be a spellcaster. Either they lack the innate talent or the resources and teachers necessary.

2) Fantasy often details cultures where spellcasting is feared or looked down on. Culturally, it isn't always an option.

3) There is no reason wizardry and mechanical engineering would be separate. From a steam engine with an infinite magical water source to a battery that charges itself at dawn, plenty of early industrial technology could be drastically improved by magical additions. Any gnome wizard or artificer or intelligent person could look around and invent something to start other people thinking. The cotton gin still makes sense for unskilled peasants who can't afford magical equivalents, and plenty enough wizards work for nations who would benefit from improvements in farming.


Third, it would no doubt be a lot faster, easier, and cheaper, once gunpowder has been discovered and its production is well-understood, to commission twenty rifles and stick them in the hands of random conscripted peasants, who can fire them all day long provided they have the gunpowder and ammunition to do so, than it would be to train a single wizard from level 0 up to being able to throw around fireballs...
Also, cannons.

DigoDragon
2016-01-06, 09:42 AM
3) There is no reason wizardry and mechanical engineering would be separate. From a steam engine with an infinite magical water source to a battery that charges itself at dawn, plenty of early industrial technology could be drastically improved by magical additions. Any gnome wizard or artificer or intelligent person could look around and invent something to start other people thinking. The cotton gin still makes sense for unskilled peasants who can't afford magical equivalents, and plenty enough wizards work for nations who would benefit from improvements in farming.

I ran a D&D campaign years back where gunpowder was discovered. This lead to the invention of the cannon. The *First* thing the PCs thought of when they got a hold of a cannon was "Can we enchant this thing?"

Magical +1 Incendiary Bane cannonballs became the scariest thing on the battlefield.

Taejang
2016-01-06, 09:56 AM
I ran a D&D campaign years back where gunpowder was discovered. This lead to the invention of the cannon. The *First* thing the PCs thought of when they got a hold of a cannon was "Can we enchant this thing?"

Magical +1 Incendiary Bane cannonballs became the scariest thing on the battlefield.
Oh man, I believe it. The scariest thing for a wooden sailing ship is fire, and fire is also super effective against entrenched soldiers.

Enchantments to gunpowder to make it smokeless (or make the smoke go anywhere that wasn't in the gunner's face) would also be very useful, as would enchanting the cannon to reduce noise or recoil or improve accuracy. Making it from fantasy metals could improve the weight. All kinds of things could be done.

Joe the Rat
2016-01-06, 10:04 AM
I proudly took it out on a test run only to find i forgot about a steering mechanism. The best part. I can picture your gnome firing it up, grabbing the reins... and then realizing that they aren't attached to anything.

Kami2awa
2016-01-06, 02:38 PM
This might be the first stage of an industrial revolution.

On the other hand, the ancient Greeks developed steam engines which were never any more than desk toys, not to mention sophisticated clockwork machines which again seem to have been little more than ornaments. It very much depends on your world. Your steam car might remain a curiosity in a world of carts and riding animals... not to mention that it has to compete with magical means of travel as well.

IRL, it took a long time to get the industrial revolution going, probably longer than your average D&D campaign. And the start of the industrial revolution predates the (non-ancient Greek) steam engine by a long way - the steam engine was convenient for industrialisation that was already in progress, powered previously by things like waterwheels.

You'd have additional fun dealing with the fantasy equivalent of Luddites who object to the loss of traditional jobs that follows industrialisation. And if you want a dark lord, you needn't look much further than a Victorian factory owner with his Dark Satanic Mills...

veti
2016-01-06, 06:55 PM
-The steam system would be at hundreds of psi. I don't think medieval metallurgy was up to the task. No welding. No high grade steel. Everything would have to be hard piped. And if a connection went out, you would get a jet of steam that would fry who ever was standing nearby.

This is the biggie, I think. This is the main reason why steam power took so long to be developed, and why so many people died in the early days of developing it... The first experimental steam engines in the modern age started to appear in the early 1600s, but it was another 150 years before it became possible to manufacture the things with reasonable confidence that they wouldn't randomly blow up and kill everyone in a 20' radius...

But: given that the basic steam-powered device was provided by the DM, it seems that this particular obstacle has been overcome. Which makes it look like the industrial revolution is already well under way, even if the DM hadn't realised it until just now.

However: if the DM doesn't want his campaign world turned upside down, there's still a get-out clause because the engine is - as far as we know - a one-off. It may have been the life's work of a single, obsessive blacksmith - since deceased, when his second prototype exploded - using magical aid and magical tools, and a "fair price" for the work that went into it may be several million GP. In which case - there's really not much danger of revolutionising anything, it's just a curiosity.