Bardic Inspiration: Why It Is Real

[ji6]

I do not know if this thread will be considered rude, but I actually wanted to make somewhat of a rant and get others opinions on why bardic inspiration does what it does. I was going to respond in that thread, but it felt very off-topic for that thread.

Basically, after reading the following quote, I got kinda sad at how some feel bardic inspiration is silly. This quote is not the first time someone has said this opinion to me, but I noticed a lot of players at my table and even my DM thought this way about bardic inspiration as well.


...
I love the idea of bards but hate them for 3 reasons:
...
- bardic inspiration is lame (why does the paladin hit better because the bard tells him that he is awesome and sings him a tune?)
...


The poster asked "why does the paladin hit better because the bard tells him that he is awesome and sings him a tune." The reason this makes me somewhat sad is because I have loved this feature and find it the opposite of stupid, and instead brilliant. I would like to compare bardic inspiration to something in the modern day and then something in fantasy to make that comparison relevant. The goal is to get the point across that the silly bards singing or doing whatever they do are helpful.

If you have ever played a sport, a big part of winning a match is actually mentality. You hear many coaches in real life focusing on developing players by putting them in dire situations in games and practicing those situations. You also hear of teams where they win way more games at home just because of the immense pressure the crowd puts on the players. Even in non-professional leagues, teams that have people that cheer for them and root for them have a lot easier time winning because it motivates them. Everyone does great feats in practice, but carrying those attributes to the field is harder. Nerves and other things get in the way of your perfect performance.

Now, that sounds all fine and dandy, but the reason I think it is relevant is because bardic inspiration brings that same idea to fights. In wars in the past, many armies actually invested in legions of bards who main job was to keep coordination, cheer them on during battle, and...um..."fulfill" certain desires of men off the battleground. Similar to professional sports, in these wars they played an often ignored role of boosting the mentality of fighters. Many generals have actually believed that was a key to victory in a lot of battles, and many also cite alcohol as a similar stimulation that allowed people to knowingly fight to die in something they really did not care much about. Hearing these great songs be written about you in the midst of battle, or the pounding of drums that connects you with all your allies is a great motivational attribute.

The reason a paladin swings better due to bardic inspiration is in my opinion because fights are brutal and effect someones nerves. Many people forget that these situations are scary for adventures, and their mentality is likely not as relaxed as yours. Just as sports players may not perform as well as usual in a game, your paladin knows how to fight, but needs to loosen his muscles to properly swing his sword. Your paladin needs to not let his instincts get him scared in the face of something that often would kill him. Your paladin needs to remember that behind him are allies that are supporting him to the best of their abilities and he needs to stay calm in the face of all these dangers. That is what bardic inspiration simulates. These stupid songs or silly words from behind you remind you of all these things. It tries to make your swing the swing you have practiced throughout your life.

In summary, I think bardic inspiration is not "lame" and stupid because it represents helping that mental side of the battle that many forget about.

EDIT: I also apologize ahead of time for spelling and grammar mistakes, as I am somewhat tired at the moment

[Madbox]

Normal, healthy humans (and presumably humanoids) are very reluctant to kill another person, even in self defense. There was a study conducted, I believe during WWII, where they found that something like 9 out of 10 soldiers deliberately missed shots against an enemy. Of the remainder, most were found to be mentally unbalanced people who made it through normal screening. People need that extra push to be capable of seriously harming others. For the modern armies, that consists of training that desensitizes people, such as shooting at human-shaped targets. For a medieval fantasy warrior, maybe it takes the bard reminding him what's at stake, how monstrous the foe is, etc.

[Markoff Chainey]

Thanks for posting that, because I also feel quite strongly about it and I like to hear different opinions.

Me and my whole table are playing for years relatively "realistic" campaigns. That does mean we use the D&D framework but do not care about "encounters per day" or stuff.. the DM orchestras his story and we play along. Sometimes we do not have a fight for the whole evening, but lots of social interactions.

We also try to play out characters "realistically" and get into them and their stories.

While I know that some armies indeed used musicians to bolster the troops morales, I have not heard of them being a considerable percentage of the fighting crowd on any book. And I cannot imagine them to sing and dance in the midst of combat. When a company of musicians would be engaged by some men-at-arms, what would the use as weapons? Their flutes or swords?

I further cannot imagine that a group of 3-6 adventurers would sanely spare the fighting power of one member for "inspirational music" in any setting but a comic one. And in a battle where the whole group is engaged, I would also expect the musician to use a dagger instead of a lute..

That said, I am fine with comic settings. If they would put the bard as it is in a book with a comic setting, I would be fine with that. I just do not think that it matches the rather gloomy feel of the rest of the fantasy world.

I picture a half-orc vengeance paladin fighting for a group of puny humans while a half-elf bard is trying to cheer him up to smash the baddies for good (but who is not otherwise participating in the fight)... this is not going well for the bard in my book.

[Ninja_Prawn]

While I know that some armies indeed used musicians to bolster the troops morales, I have not heard of them being a considerable percentage of the fighting crowd on any book. And I cannot imagine them to sing and dance in the midst of combat. When a company of musicians would be engaged by some men-at-arms, what would the use as weapons? Their flutes or swords?

While I generally agree that Bardic Inspiration makes sense and belongs in the game, I think the OP was exaggerating here. Musicians in pre-modern armies are primarily there for communications and co-ordination. As Sun Tzu wrote, flags and banners are the eyes of the army; drums and gongs are its ears. These musicians are certainly not bards (as 5e defines the term); most of them were children too young to fight.

And I'm fairly sure camp followers don't have PC levels either... :smallyuk:

[Dienekes]

Well usually when the drummers, flute players, and banner holders actually are forced to fight that means the rest of the line has either fallen or been routed. They either drop their equipment and run or they die. There are exceptions of course. I vaguely remember a story of a standard bearer using his standard as a weapon then rallying the men around him.

In either case if we're going by realism there is more evidence to back up that inspirational music and words can make you concentrate better and even pump out more adrenaline than there is evidence for a real barbarian rage. Which seems to have either been inspired by a mildly hallucinogenic drug or a ritual war chant/dance thing depending on which historian you ask (personally the evidence of the Norse chronicles seems to point more toward the ritual one to me)

That said, yeah, in an entirely realistic setting 4 trained elite warriors would probably prefer to have a 5th elite warrior with them rather than some guy with a drum singing inspiration. Good thing they have magic then, drawing a bit more from the Norse traditions of the power of magic song to confuse and disrupt your opponent than outright realistic representations of music.

[ji6]

Normal, healthy humans (and presumably humanoids) are very reluctant to kill another person, even in self defense. There was a study conducted, I believe during WWII, where they found that something like 9 out of 10 soldiers deliberately missed shots against an enemy. Of the remainder, most were found to be mentally unbalanced people who made it through normal screening. People need that extra push to be capable of seriously harming others. For the modern armies, that consists of training that desensitizes people, such as shooting at human-shaped targets. For a medieval fantasy warrior, maybe it takes the bard reminding him what's at stake, how monstrous the foe is, etc.

*nods* Good points as well.


Thanks for posting that, because I also feel quite strongly about it and I like to hear different opinions.

Me and my whole table are playing for years relatively "realistic" campaigns. That does mean we use the D&D framework but do not care about "encounters per day" or stuff.. the DM orchestras his story and we play along. Sometimes we do not have a fight for the whole evening, but lots of social interactions.

We also try to play out characters "realistically" and get into them and their stories.

While I know that some armies indeed used musicians to bolster the troops morales, I have not heard of them being a considerable percentage of the fighting crowd on any book. And I cannot imagine them to sing and dance in the midst of combat. When a company of musicians would be engaged by some men-at-arms, what would the use as weapons? Their flutes or swords?

I further cannot imagine that a group of 3-6 adventurers would sanely spare the fighting power of one member for "inspirational music" in any setting but a comic one. And in a battle where the whole group is engaged, I would also expect the musician to use a dagger instead of a lute..

That said, I am fine with comic settings. If they would put the bard as it is in a book with a comic setting, I would be fine with that. I just do not think that it matches the rather gloomy feel of the rest of the fantasy world.

I picture a half-orc vengeance paladin fighting for a group of puny humans while a half-elf bard is trying to cheer him up to smash the baddies for good (but who is not otherwise participating in the fight)... this is not going well for the bard in my book.

The main reason you did not often hear them as "a considerable percentage of the fighting crowd" is because they often were not considered part of the fighting crowd. They were traveling with the army getting paid from either the army itself or for performing "services" (related to things I do not know if I can talk about on these forums) in exchange for cash, and many more times both. Some stayed back with the camp, and some were sent with the army to keep morale high during fights and help things like communication.

Now, the thing to note here is these bards were often foreign or otherwise distant from the politics of everything going on. So the reason they did not switch to weapons in the midst of big fights is because they were not considered much a threat and were EXCELLENT INTEL afterwords. Some young soldiers might kill the ones carrying drums and other instruments into battle due to inexperience and without thinking, but regardless of the result, they had a much lower mortality rate than soldiers. If the army won, they got payed and continued marching along, or perhaps leaving if the army seemed to be struggling (which caused many armies to start paying them after the campaign rather than after battles). If the army lost, while the soldiers routed, some of them may run away if they thought they would escape, or essentially join the opposing armies increasing trope (sometimes being "violated" by soldiers before properly joining).

As for the argument on why a bard might be in a 3-6 adventuring party, it often would relate to the age of the bard. Really young bards might try to seek out fellows starting on their journey to write some fancy song about. These are probably the ones that your paladin would grow to hate. The reason they would stay out of combat probably relates to fear moreso than anything. They are not trained soldiers, and probably did not know how to use weapons in the first place as they are children and younger teenagers. But, what did you expect? You brought a really young child along.

For older bards, probably in their 20s onwards, they have already learned of battle and these are closer to what is represented in D&D and the ones in your party. They may have been violated a couple times and thus learned to use a couple weapons to defend themselves. They have learned some skills, most likely related to talking to others to be able to quickly be welcome in places foreigners may find typically unwelcoming. In most situations, they have to travel to get paid as the market is pretty competitive and inns typically do not want their customers getting bored of the same old songs, so why not join an adventuring party they think. These bards are not going to be fighting on the front lines putting their lives at danger using weapons they thought were last resorts, they actually like being alive, especially as they know many of their bard friends died off in their younger days because of being too headstrong. You actually probably met this bard in some town and, after them talking to you, they offered to join for some split of the payment (or, if you are a more official group, he may have been more of a court musician/jester/etc and was assigned to you). It is not like a party has a real limit of 3-6 as you said, and there are many benefits of having a bard. They do not suffer from nightmares of killing people as their hands are for the most part clean, so when you are screaming at night, they are the ones that go down to the innkeeper and pay them a little gold and explain the situation a bit. While you are fighting, they are the ones singing some songs to keep your mind off the blood starting to paint your wardrobe, so later they can walk to your tent at night while you cannot fall asleep and remind you just to focus on the song and forget about the reality. They are the ones preventing you from becoming a mad killer and reminding you that you are indeed sane. These bards do a lot of work behind the scenes for you, and then show their usefulness outside of combat as they, being not a killer, often are more relatable to an average joe you come across and can talk to them as someone similar. They even learn magic in D&D, and DO find themselves able to help you in combat with spells that still keep their hands somewhat clean of the blood.

So, why did the adventuring party decide to keep this bard? He makes their lives easier. He gives you someone to talk to about your fears, he gives you someone happy in your party to keep your mood well, he breaks up the fights in the party with a small ditty that leaves everyone sighing, and he manages to magically help you guys conquer stuff in combat. Speaking from experience of my family that is mostly military, he is basically the friend that does not have PTSD and can cheer all you guys up as he is a little more disconnected. Someone that lets you forget about your troubles, and he doubles as a psychologist at times since he has seen this many a time before. He also shows you how to find the best brothels in towns, how to get some drinks for cheaper, and how to get out of trouble with the local guards; because, let's face it, those things are something fun to do on your off days to forget about your life of killing. Medieval times are indeed "gloomy" as you said, but if everyone is depressed and struggling to stay sane, that is when the bard is best in your party. You may yell at him and claim he is a fool, but that relief will make your player be able to last that much longer in the deeps of some dungeon when you do not know when the next time you will be able to leave is. The most "realistic" thing is struggling to figure out why killing these owlbears is better than relaxing in some inn with your mass amount of gold, or thinking about abandoning your quest to save the world and choosing to enjoy your last days not covered in blood. The bard is there to keep you going and keep you in at least decent spirits as you move onto the next battle despite no longer remember how many you have killed for your goal. At least, that is my opinion on the matter. Plus, they have magic in D&D, and so have a combat purpose as well.


While I generally agree that Bardic Inspiration makes sense and belongs in the game, I think the OP was exaggerating here. Musicians in pre-modern armies are primarily there for communications and co-ordination. As Sun Tzu wrote, flags and banners are the eyes of the army; drums and gongs are its ears. These musicians are certainly not bards (as 5e defines the term); most of them were children too young to fight.

And I'm fairly sure camp followers don't have PC levels either... :smallyuk:

There were a lot more bards (I use that term, because musicians were actual more rare than other types of performing arts, with I believe female dancers being the most popular, although I have not done research into that for quite some time and am out of touch with my friends who better know the field) that accompanied armies outside of the actual combat and more so back in camp. Most soldiers used a lot of their money on these bards as they gave additional services for the men that is somewhat difficult to find in manly male armies, and also doubled as a place to relax and gamble. Even though the quote mentions the eyes of the army and ears of the army, it left out the heart (likely as Sun-Tzu was attempting to teach a different lesson with that statement), which is a culmination of many factors of which the drums and gongs played an important part. A fun note related to this is that an uncoordinated marching song can weaken an army decisively, slowing their pace and making them out of sync with other troops and poor at following orders during a large combat. Rather than the book-like tale of undercover men who sounded wrong orders to win large fights, many fights were also aided by placing a bard in the opposing army whose whole goal was to disrupt men prior to battle. In addition to messing with songs of march, keeping officers up at night led to arguable better results as well, although it is hard to attribute wins to only those factors as often there were so many things being done that you cannot pin the victory down on one factor.

[KorvinStarmast]

Normal, healthy humans (and presumably humanoids) are very reluctant to kill another person, even in self defense. There was a study conducted, I believe during WWII, where they found that something like 9 out of 10 soldiers deliberately missed shots against an enemy.
.
Pure BS. (It was not 9 of 10).

Men Against Fire (http://strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/parameters/Articles/03autumn/chambers.pdf)
The findings of journalist-soldier S. L. A. Marshall about combat fire ratios — particularly that in World War II less than 25 percent of American combat infantrymen in battle fired their weapons—have been controversial
since Marshall published them in his 1947 book, Men Against Fire. He continued to apply his methodology—the after-action, group interview with enlisted men—during the Korean War, where he concluded that more than half the front-line soldiers were firing their weapons. In the past 20 years, Marshall’s controversial figures have come under more intensive attack, in part because, after his death in 1977, his papers did not include statistical analyses or more than a couple of the field notebooks produced during group interviews. Yet Marshall continues to have supporters as well as detractors, and the controversy rages on, fueled by emotional beliefs, individual vested interests, missing documents, and absent statistics.
S.L.A. Marshall did a survey on how many infantrymen did or didn't fire their weapons during combat. Western Front, after D-Day is where it started, and it continued during the Korean War. The results of this survey were a surprise to the Army, as the report found that many soldiers didn't fire during combat (which came as a surprise to their leadership). This finding (though controversial in terms of Marshall's methodology and rigor) led to some serious changes in training.

[Madbox]

last post

Thank you. I guess I was unclear, but I didn't remember exactly who did the study or what the specific numbers were, hence the "like" in "like 9 out of 10". Maybe I should have said "most soldiers". Either way, I apologize, and also thank you for directing us to the study.

[Naanomi]

Bards are magic, music is an inherently mystical force in the DnD cosmology, it doesn't need much explanation

Or...

If it does, then so do several other game mechanics. Barbarian's get superpowers when angry, why? Fighters (and rogues and wizards) don't have adrenaline surges? All barbarians have massive pituitary tumors?

[Lonely Tylenol]

I picture a half-orc vengeance paladin fighting for a group of puny humans while a half-elf bard is trying to cheer him up to smash the baddies for good (but who is not otherwise participating in the fight)... this is not going well for the bard in my book.

Try picturing the inverse: a Half-Elf ponce of a Paladin who is more concerned with their pie-in-the-sky ideals than dealing with issues in any way that is grounded in the real world while a Half-Orc warrior-skald presses forth through the front line, inspiring fervor in their allies with war chants and battle cries which match the rhythm of their ferocious strikes.

Your definition of Bard seems to be very narrow even in the context of a D&D Bard, and describes a very small subset of what Bards are and can do. If every Bard is Berries and Cream Kid (https://youtu.be/wYX_zhlTDr8) to you, then of course, every Bard is going to be just automatically deserving of ridicule, because the Bard is just a bundle of negative Bard stereotypes to you. Buck the trend. Build a character that subverts tired stereotypes in awesome ways.

And if you can't do that, remember this:

Between the Half-Orc Paladin and the Half-Elf Bard described above, only one of them is capable of mind control.

[mephnick]

Anyone who's played sports or gone for a run or gone to the gym should be able to parse this pretty easily. Rhythmic music while running helps, loud tough music while lifting weights helps. Pre-game and half-time pep talks are common. It's common knowledge that these things help you mentally to exert yourself physically, which is why I've never understood the "bardic inspiration is stupid" opinion.

[Joe the Rat]

Since we are talking 5th ed, it is important to separate the Bard from the entertainer, and being proficient with instruments. And the "entertainer, proficient with... instruments."

Camp followers are not bards - or not necessarily so. The idea of the Bard is a person with exceptional training in performance, and a broad knowledge of tales, and the ability to read a crowd, and strike them up with a rousing favorite or an inspirational speech. Masters of Information, and Emotional Manipulation. Maybe you are camp entertainment - and that's more headliner than clothes-mender. You're Bob Hope, not one of the girls in sequined shorts. And remember, you can be an Entertainer without being a Bard. Warlocks in particular are known for playing wicked blues guitar, or epic holophonor.

The place you'd really expect to see Bards as an actual part of an army is in the command tent, turning information into plans, or turning prisoners through manipulation. The ability to play a mean harmonica is gravy.

Inspiration on the field: Just as they can use Cutting Words to throw off an opponent (all it takes is a second of distraction), Bardic inspiration is about hitting the mental cues that make someone work harder. A reminder of the cause. A chord from your national anthem. An invocation of the great heroes of old. Battle cries. A reminder of the specific technique used by the hero in a story in a situation not unlike the one you are in. Something about their mother that is rude enough to provoke anger, but not so much that it gets redirected towards you. It's also knowing what will work for any given individual. This is what Bards are trained for. Maybe he's the coach. Maybe he's the Quarterback. Maybe's he's the team joker who knows exactly what to say to set someone off. If you prefer a more martial approach, he's the one with the sense of tempo, knowing when to push for best effect. He's the one who knows how to squeeze that extra ounce of effort from his fellows, or get them over their mental blocks. Valor bards do it by example.

If you hate the music, don't sing. Perform (Oratory) was acceptable in 3rd. If inspiration is not a spell, then musical instruments (or a bag of dead bugs and pocket lint) aren't necessary. Pull a Braveheart. Recite the St. Crispin's Day Speech. Make the egg salad sandwich. Or Spike Jones it and mock the crap out of the other guys. Whatever it takes to make your team stop holding back.

Speaking of Magic (And tangential to the Inspiration): If you'd rather have a 5th fighter on the line, does that mean you wouldn't take a wizard instead? Or a cleric? Realistic preferences means you need to exclude the casters in your skirmish troops, or adjust to having a dedicated back line: a grenadier, sniper, artillery spotter, etc. A 5e Bard isn't a yutz with a banjo, he's a full caster. A caster that specializes in manipulation, misdirection, and Psychic effects, with a side of performance enhancing spells and maybe a med kit. A Bard can heal you with a word, then insult an enemy so hard his brain bleeds. PsyWar at the skirmish level, because magic lets you do stuff like that.

[choryukami]

I find the idea of singing in combat kinda silly. But I don't imagine bards do that. In 5e I have noticed that WoTC has taken pains to NOT mention the bard performing, singing or playing anything in combat. Yes, he has proficiency in instruments, but why would any same person play music on the battlefield? I get that there were drummer boys and trumpeters, but that was in armies of many more people. You have a 3-6 man group. My bard does everything a sane person could do during combat. He talks his way out of combat, dominates/suggests, heals/supports, blasts with magic secrets. He might even mix it up in melee.

To me, bardic inspiration is like, "You're the best, fighter! His swings are cleaving all the goblins in two! Amazing!" And he smiles silently to himself as he cleaves another goblin.

"Pssst! Hey rogue, you got this, you're the best at picking locks. Remember that time back in the Deeps when we were being chased and you popped that lock in like three seconds?"
*Pop* "Yeah! Like that."

Thank you, Joe the Rat. That is exactly how I view bards.

[JackPhoenix]

Bard doesn't have to be magical cheerleader. In PF, my bard was a military officer, with motivation speeches before the battle and tactical advices in combat. That works for Bardic Inspiration too...you don't have to sing to make the paladin fight harder, you have noticed that the enemy is reacting a little slowly to the attacks from left side and advice your companions to take an advantage of that.

Also, these guys are good at motivating their forces to fight harder too, and they are definitely not singing or dancing... http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/0/08/Commisar_Officer.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120418164447

[YossarianLives]

Just saying, bards don't just use their Bardic Music. They also have considerable magical ability, and I'm sure anybody can see the advantages of bringing along someone who can provide support in battle, run negotiations and sling spells.

[djreynolds]

The greatest 5th member of any party.

[ZenBear]

That said, I am fine with comic settings. If they would put the bard as it is in a book with a comic setting, I would be fine with that. I just do not think that it matches the rather gloomy feel of the rest of the fantasy world.

Have you ever heard of Darkest Dungeon? It's a rogue-like turn-based dungeon crawler any D&D fan can appreciate. The mood of the Lovecraftian setting is as gloomy as it gets, but they still have this guy:

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/706273152538866651/FCBF281557FB0B239A217EF58BDA7172535BB369/

He plays a lute to buff allies and calm their nerves (stress is as important as health in this game). The character is very potent and fits the setting perfectly.

[solidork]

Have you ever heard of Darkest Dungeon? It's a rogue-like turn-based dungeon crawler any D&D fan can appreciate. The mood of the Lovecraftian setting is as gloomy as it gets, but they still have this guy:

He plays a lute to buff allies and calm their nerves (stress is as important as health in this game). The character is very potent and fits the setting perfectly.

Hell, anyone see Mad Max? I want to see his guitar written up as a wondrous item.

[georgie_leech]

Have you ever heard of Darkest Dungeon? It's a rogue-like turn-based dungeon crawler any D&D fan can appreciate. The mood of the Lovecraftian setting is as gloomy as it gets, but they still have this guy:

He plays a lute to buff allies and calm their nerves (stress is as important as health in this game). The character is very potent and fits the setting perfectly.

To be fair, they also have a fondness for stabbing people and I had one that I swear became the Joker after a while.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Pretty much anyone who hasn't played sports or been in real battle can't really comprehend bardic inspiration or other types of abilities such as that.

Motivation/inspiration can go an very long way.

[ZenBear]

To be fair, they also have a fondness for stabbing people and I had one that I swear became the Joker after a while.

True, but then Bards aren't solely Inspiration dispensers either. They have weapons, spells, skills; they're a very versatile and useful class even without Bardic Inspiration.

Personally I use my Jesters for buff/stress healing with Solo/Finale combo for high priority targets or when everyone is fully buffed and healthy. I love it! 😁

[devinlc]

Normal, healthy humans (and presumably humanoids) are very reluctant to kill another person, even in self defense. There was a study conducted, I believe during WWII, where they found that something like 9 out of 10 soldiers deliberately missed shots against an enemy. Of the remainder, most were found to be mentally unbalanced people who made it through normal screening. People need that extra push to be capable of seriously harming others. For the modern armies, that consists of training that desensitizes people, such as shooting at human-shaped targets. For a medieval fantasy warrior, maybe it takes the bard reminding him what's at stake, how monstrous the foe is, etc.

Nope. Sorry. What you are quoting is pure antecdote...an urban myth spun to make a point.

First, it may be that 9 of 10 soldiers deliberately missed a shot at SOME POINT in time throughout their entire soldiering career. Yes...that I can believe. But the idea that 9 of 10 missed all the time is ridiculous.

So if the truth is that 9 of 10 missed at some point...then that negates the remainder of your point that the rest are mostly psychopaths. OTOH if you contend that 9 of 10 missed most or all of the time, then I claim BS, because just look at the casualty figures in WW2.

There have been studies that say a surprising number of infantry in combat never fire their weapons. Something like 40%. They instead remain behind cover, pinned down. But that is not surprising and an entirely different claim than you are making.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Having served in a military unit myself, I know for a fact that (at least the army I served in) we keep at least one functioning brass band platoon for various events. This isn't just for historical purposes and psychological warfare (as others have mentioned) but for practical purposes: namely, marching cadence.

With regards to history and psychological warfare, ever heard of a "Winged Hussar"? Horsemen with exceptionally feathered gear that made screeching sounds when they rode, making them sound like 10 units, instead of one.

The bard functions the same way: sound and using it to lift spirits of allies and demoralize opponents is a viable tactic, and plays a huge role in combat and warfare. This is why trash-talking is generally frowned upon in fair sports events, but something the bard can do in the form of Vicious Mockery.

I wholly agree with the OP; uplifting another member of the team during physcial activities with Bardic Inspiration is very real. Ask anyone who goes to the gym with their MP3 player, or who plays in sports events. Even movies about warfare need epic soundtracks: in fact, that's what your bard can do, be the OST of your party. Even Darth Vader is only half as intimidating without his Imperial March (I bet you're imagining that right now, that music stuck in your head, as you read that).

In the Paladin example, the Bard isn't humming a tune or cheering him on; he's playing upbeat theme music about the triumph of the forces of good over evil or otherwise the eternal struggle between these forces (like, say, Duel of the Fates).

That's my take on it anyway.

[Alejandro]

Don't forget Bill Millin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Millin

The iron-balled Scottish D-Day bagpiper.

[JackPhoenix]

With regards to history and psychological warfare, ever heard of a "Winged Hussar"? Horsemen with exceptionally feathered gear that made screeching sounds when they rode, making them sound like 10 units, instead of one.

Really? I knew about Winged Hussars, but I just thought the wings were just supposed to look cool (thing angels), not that it had a function.

Speaking of demoralising opponents...German Stuka dive bombers in WW2 featured a siren to scare the hell out of anyone on the wrong side of their attack.


I wholly agree with the OP; uplifting another member of the team during physcial activities with Bardic Inspiration is very real. Ask anyone who goes to the gym with their MP3 player, or who plays in sports events. Even movies about warfare need epic soundtracks: in fact, that's what your bard can do, be the OST of your party. Even Darth Vader is only half as intimidating without his Imperial March (I bet you're imagining that right now, that music stuck in your head, as you read that).

Now I imagine my villains having a band marching behind them performing their theme song :D

[Alejandro]

Now I imagine my villains having a band marching behind them performing their theme song :D

That would actually be pretty funny to do to some anti-bard players. They won't like it when their enemy has bards buffing them. :)

[Battlebooze]

Bardic inspiration is one of the more realistic parts of 5th! Someone doesn't think morale is a real thing?

If you have trouble with Bards inspiring people, take a look at the healing rules! One nights sleep will put you from one to full! And Magic!

Lol.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Bardic inspiration is one of the more realistic parts of 5th! Someone doesn't think morale is a real thing?

If you have trouble with Bards inspiring people, take a look at the healing rules! One nights sleep will put you from one to full! And Magic!

Lol.

Well, with how hit points work, a nights rest is very realistic or very very very unrealistic... This one is kinda an ad example cause HP can just be that you are tired or out of luck.

[JohnDoe]

As so many others have said, sports are an easy example. Someone's motivation and emotions can be contagious, and inspirational. That's why we have captains on our teams.

I do think bards ought to be able to use their inspiration die though. Inspirational people are very rarely uninspired themselves. When a 'bard' performs any type of art, even music, they're conveying something within themselves to other people.

It's not like Ray Lewis was the only uninspired person in the locker room.

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Mechanically speaking, playing with a smaller Party makes a Valor Bard's combat inspiration less viable by only being able to buff 2 players in a 3 man party. By buffing players beforehand, a 4 man party increases that extra damage die by 50% (one more player).

The Valor Bard ought to be able to use his own Combat inspiration, to still allow 3 players to use the damage die. It really makes no difference as to who is using it. The damage is the same.

(That's why bards make 'good 5th party characters')

During an encounter, using the inspiration as a bonus action on himself only delays its use, as his next turn comes after every other member of the party.

So again, I don't see why a Valor Bard shouldn't be able to use his own inspiration, or convey that to other members in the party. Not doing so only hurts smaller parties who are already in need of buffing.
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[Mjolnirbear]

Real-time power of music:

Heavy beats while working out
Zen music during meditation
Background Orchestra during a sale
Calm music at your stressful office
Barry Manolo in the bedroom
Heavy metal when you're angry

They all affect how we act or react. And we have no magic.

It is no stretch that in D&D, where bards literally have unlocked the magic hidden in music, can use music like a mage uses somatic or verbal components to achieve various inspirational effects

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Real-time power of music:

Heavy beats while working out
Zen music during meditation
Background Orchestra during a sale
Calm music at your stressful office
Barry Manolo in the bedroom
Heavy metal when you're angry

They all affect how we act or react. And we have no magic.

It is no stretch that in D&D, where bards literally have unlocked the magic hidden in music, can use music like a mage uses somatic or verbal components to achieve various inspirational effects

I typically use Iron Maiden when I meditate, but I'm weird.

[Sitri]

http://m4.i.pbase.com/o9/28/348228/1/154608194.o3oY5iUB.demotivationalpostersbard.jpg

[Occasional Sage]

And I'm fairly sure camp followers don't have PC levels either... :smallyuk:

Heck, 1e had them statted out in Dragon Magazine, 2e in OA as geisha, 3e I'm sure had some analog in the BoEF....


*snip*

I don't know if this is a universal feeling or even shared, but I find your posts very hard to read. Between the very long paragraphs and the tiny font, your posts are an impenetrable wall of text to my eyes.

Any chance you could refrain from resizing please? People are finding your your ideas interesting, and I'd like to read them without tremendous effort.

[KorvinStarmast]

Heavy beats while working out
Zen music during meditation
Background Orchestra during a sale
Calm music at your stressful office
Barry Manolo in the bedroom
Heavy metal when you're angry

They all affect how we act or react. And we have no magic.
Sub in Sade (http://www.sade.com/us/home/) for Barry Manilow in the bed room and I'll sign up for that program.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Really? I knew about Winged Hussars, but I just thought the wings were just supposed to look cool (thing angels), not that it had a function.

Speaking of demoralising opponents...German Stuka dive bombers in WW2 featured a siren to scare the hell out of anyone on the wrong side of their attack.

Now I imagine my villains having a band marching behind them performing their theme song :D

On point 1: That's what I remember from my Western History classes, at least. A quick Google search shows that many historians theorize that the feathers were not just ornamental; the sound they make when the horses go at high speed would make it seem like a unit of only 100 Hussars (terrifying enough by itself) would be 1,000 Hussars (by then, the enemies would be fleeing in terror). They were probably the inspiration for the German dive bombers, and further prove the importance of sound and psychological warfare in combat. The DnD Bard simply localizes, vocalizes, and weaponizes it. Magically. :smallsmile:

On point 2: You can tell a villain is awesome when he or she comes with their own theme music. I'd personally invest good money in a mobile orchestra if I were to ever become one myself. :smallbiggrin:

On the idea that having music during combat isn't "realistic"; okay, maybe it's not (though as others in the thread have mentioned, it certainly has a place even in modern warfare; not as ridiculous as playing the guitar while everyone is firing guns, but it clearly has other applications). Then again, I can tell you for a fact that it would be entirely possible to play instruments while fighting simultaneously. I personally know at least two people who, using a special mouthpiece hanging by the neck, would be able to play a guitar two-handed while also playing a harmonica. The idea that they could play an instrument (a whistle, or something else) while doing something else with those hands doesn't seem all that absurd.

A DnD Bard, completely in character, should be able to play a wind instrument with his mouth, fight off an Orc with a rapier in his right hand, while opening a locked door with a tool in his left hand. At the same time. That's how crazy awesome a Bard should be; the "Jack Of All Trades", having many skills and being a performer on top of it. Of course, optimally, you'd rather have a Rogue pick the lock, a Fighter fend off the Orc, and have someone else (a Cleric, Wizard or other specialist) do another support role, but when all you have is one Bard to do all those things, he should be able to, and, by sheer awesome alone, inspire his party to go beyond their limits, or you're playing him wrong. :smallcool:

[choryukami]

A DnD Bard, completely in character, should be able to play a wind instrument with his mouth, fight off an Orc with a rapier in his right hand, while opening a locked door with a tool in his left hand. At the same time. That's how crazy awesome a Bard should be; the "Jack Of All Trades", having many skills and being a performer on top of it. Of course, optimally, you'd rather have a Rogue pick the lock, a Fighter fend off the Orc, and have someone else (a Cleric, Wizard or other specialist) do another support role, but when all you have is one Bard to do all those things, he should be able to, and, by sheer awesome alone, inspire his party to go beyond their limits, or you're playing him wrong. :smallcool:

Absolutely. Except playing wind instruments in combat. The bard has tools to excel at one or two roles and be decent at all the others. Expertise makes him a skill master. The only thing the rogue's got on him is expertise in thieves' tools and some of the later level abilities that allow the rogue to just succeed, but the bard has magic, a lot of it.

Just pick double proficiency in deception and max out charisma. My bard gets +13 I think? He's talked his way past over a dozen combats with humanoids.
"What's going on down there?"
"Nothing. We're fine down here, how are you?" Roll... I get a 31 Deception.
"Okay."

Wizards and Sorcerers, when built for magic damage, are in a similar boat to the Lore Bard who picks Fireball, Cone of Cold, Disintegrate, etc for his magical secrets. They have more options, and the ability to exclude their allies, and some neat tricks. The bard gets cutting words, which can force enemies to fail their saves.

For mind control (Suggestion, Domination), there is no equal to the Lore Bard. Cutting Words means those spells actually hit. It'll take an entire beefy enemy out of the battle and turn him on his friends.

For support, nobody can equal the Life Cleric. The bard comes close if he dips a single level into life cleric, but doesn't have as many of the bells and whistles. With a high charisma though, he can still heal well and do most of what the purely spec'ed for it cleric can do.

Bear in mind, all the stuff I said above can be done by the same PC at the same time. Look at my signature.

And on the other hand, you have the valor bard. He gets extra attack, he can get higher level smites and haste or swift quiver through magical secrets, he gets War Magic, like an EK. But he has a LOT more spells than any of those classes. If he specializes in melee, he can dip Paladin 2 to be able to use his AMPLE number of spell slots to smite like an energizer bunny. If he is ranged, at level 11 with swift quiver and a maxed dexterity he can fight similarly to a ranger. Keep in mind that this bard is also still a skill master, and can still heal and mind control.


Then finally, when you go back to the inn, then is when you play your instrument, get free lodging and always have a companion for the night. The End.