Burning someone.

[Sarzael]

This specific question is about Pathfinder, but I'll accept any information offered.

So, according to Pathfinder rules...

"Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character's clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out—that is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he's no longer on fire."

However, I have a few problems with this. Mainly, 1d6 damage per turn seems pretty low. It means that my Oracle with 42HP could (with some luck) stand in a fire for four minutes and take no serious damage. I can understand this damage if your clothes or hair are burning, but what if you tie someone up, douse them with oil, and leave them to burn? With no chance to escape, it seems pretty silly they'd last so long.

Are there any rules I'm missing? If not, how would you handle it? Would the victim start suffocating? Does it interrupt fast healing or regeneration?

[Red Fel]

Well, several things to consider.

First, the "Catching Fire" rules apply specifically to when a character has caught fire. This is therefore in addition to any fire damage they might take - for example, by standing in a bonfire, or by being hit by a Fireball spell. This is the additional damage inflicted by having caught fire.

I note at this point that there is nothing in the environmental rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules) for the damage you take from simply standing in a fire. It's possible that the Catching Fire rules detail the extent of it, as I see nothing there to contradict or supplement them.

That said, it's not that they'd really "last so long." A round is roughly 6 seconds. That means a character is taking an average of 3.5 damage per second; for a character with 42 HP, that's death in 12 rounds, a little over a minute.

Further, if you're describing a character standing in the middle of a fire, you're probably looking at smoke inhalation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules#TOC-Smoke-Effects), which means choking.

[Psyren]

Hit Points are an abstraction; the catching fire rules represent the danger of mundane fire, which is intended to become less threatening as characters gain experience and have to take on more mystical threats. It would be silly if a high-level character could raid the 9th circle of Hell solo and come back alive, but still be in mortal peril because their inn's common room caught fire that night. If you immobilize and douse someone in accelerant it's more than reasonable to make the fire more dangerous, but you're getting into GM fiat territory and have to figure out the details yourself.

As far as your latter questions:

(a) Yes, smoke inhalation/suffocation is a danger of most non-magical fires - and just like real life, is more likely to kill you than the fire itself.

(b) No, fire does not interrupt fast healing or regen unless they say it does. Keep in mind regen functions differently in PF - if you have regen that is beaten by fire, then taking any fire damage will turn it off for a round and cause any damage you take that round (fire or not) to be lethal. If you continue taking fire damage, you will never heal because the regen will never "switch back on."

[Starbuck_II]

Well, several things to consider.

First, the "Catching Fire" rules apply specifically to when a character has caught fire. This is therefore in addition to any fire damage they might take - for example, by standing in a bonfire, or by being hit by a Fireball spell. This is the additional damage inflicted by having caught fire.

I note at this point that there is nothing in the environmental rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules) for the damage you take from simply standing in a fire. It's possible that the Catching Fire rules detail the extent of it, as I see nothing there to contradict or supplement them.

That said, it's not that they'd really "last so long." A round is roughly 6 seconds. That means a character is taking an average of 3.5 damage per second; for a character with 42 HP, that's death in 12 rounds, a little over a minute.

Further, if you're describing a character standing in the middle of a fire, you're probably looking at smoke inhalation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules#TOC-Smoke-Effects), which means choking.

Close, Fireball won't do it because it is Instantaneous. Flaming Sphere will be cause it is 1 rd/level.

Standing in fire is likely another 1d6-3d6 depending of severity/heat of fire.

[Sarzael]

Thanks everyone for the answers. Of course, I understand this is something to ask my GM, but I still figured I'd ask other people first.

[Starbuck_II]

"Extreme heat (air temperature over 140° F, fire, boiling water, lava) deals lethal damage. Breathing air in these temperatures deals 1d6 points of fire damage per minute (no save). In addition, a character must make a Fortitude save every 5 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Those wearing heavy clothing or any sort of armor take a –4 penalty on their saves."
So in a burning house you take 1d6 lethal and 1d6 nonlethal (if fail save).
Now if you are actually standing in fire, I'd guess 1d6 fire (as boiling water deals that a round).
Then if dealt fire damage, you have catch on fire save.

[Nibbens]

Dousing someone in oil and lighting them on fire sounds an awful bit like the Lava or Boiling Water Rules.

Boiling water: Boiling water deals 1d6 points of scalding damage, unless the character is fully immersed, in which case it deals 10d6 points of damage per round of exposure.

Lava: Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round.

I think that in this case - where a person is doused in oil and his whole body is lit on fire - sounds a lot like submersion. I'd probably rule 3d6 - 10d6 points of damage per turn depending on how nice of a DM i was feeling. But truthfully, if you've got someone down and you douse them in oil and light them on fire, I don't think they'd last too long.

Besides, there's no rule saying you can't up the damage for particularly hot fires or particularly bad situations such as this... As a DM i mean. If you're a player, then this is something to definitely work out with your DM. lol.

[Ashtagon]

http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire02/PDF/f02082.pdf
https://www.doctorfire.com/flametmp.html

Air temperature in a burning building peaks on the order of 500-600 °C (932-1112 °F). That is easily high enough to invoke the heat danger rules described in Sandstorm (top tier of heat damage kicks in at 211 °F). That's 3d10 fire damage per round, no save, plus the effects of a heat metal spell if touching anything metallic.

[Psyren]

I forgot that there were "boiling submersion" rules. I agree, getting doused in oil and set on fire should at least be as bad as that.

[Âmesang]

How is being doused in flaming oil any different than being doused by a flask of alchemist's fire? :smallconfused:

[Psyren]

How is being doused in flaming oil any different than being doused by a flask of alchemist's fire? :smallconfused:

I don't think a flask would be enough to do what he's describing - it sounded like he was tying someone down and drenching them head to foot in oil. That should carry a little more damage than just chucking a bottle at them would I think.

[Fizban]

The Control Flames (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlFlames.htm) power gives the damage for fires of every size. Though they flubbed the size column so it reads with the maximum fire size being a 5' square instead of at 5 square square (a 25' square), which is what Colossal means, but it's pretty obvious. I want to say it's taken from another rules area, but I'm probably remembering wrong. And of course you add any extra damage from catching on fire, as well as extreme heat and smoke inhalation if there's no ventilation.

But that's for if you're standing in a fire. For completely soaking someone in accelerant I'd probably do something like change the "caught on fire" damage to match a fire of equal size, so it'd be 3d6 per round, and massively increase the DC for putting it out. That might seem a little low, but that's assuming it's their clothes on fire and not their flesh directly combusting yet (I believe it mostly melts anyway), and 30d6 in a minute is enough to kill a lot of things. Unless you need a particularly precise idea of how long they'll scream, any number is enough for a helpless target.

[Sarzael]

The specific target I want dead has high DR/- and fast healing, which is the reason we are unable to kill it despite it being helpless. It's also immune to critical hits, so we cannot coup de grace it.

[Ashtagon]

The specific target I want dead has high DR/- and fast healing, which is the reason we are unable to kill it despite it being helpless. It's also immune to critical hits, so we cannot coup de grace it.

Burning building (or funeral pyre). 3d10 fire damage per round, no save, as per Sandstorm rules. Assuming fast healing 5, that's still an average of 11.5 hp damage per round. Note that energy attacks (which includes fire damage) ignore damage reduction.

[Starbuck_II]

Burning building (or funeral pyre). 3d10 fire damage per round, no save, as per Sandstorm rules. Assuming fast healing 5, that's still an average of 11.5 hp damage per round. Note that energy attacks (which includes fire damage) ignore damage reduction.

Hopefully, it has no fire resistance then.

[Fizban]

The specific target I want dead has high DR/- and fast healing, which is the reason we are unable to kill it despite it being helpless. It's also immune to critical hits, so we cannot coup de grace it.
As mentioned, DR doesn't do anything about fire damage. Have you considered strangulation or drowning? Kills anything that breathes, particularly regenerating creatures that you don't have the right weapons to coup de grace. Immune to crit doesn't always mean immune to oxygen loss. Unless you've already tried that.

[Itsjustsoup.com]

The damage you quoted was also from Alchemist Fire, Specifically.

People use that as their go-to for things catching fire because its not easy to find another one listed.

But I agree with the others, it depends on the intensity of the flame from different sources.

[Spore]

The specific target I want dead has high DR/- and fast healing, which is the reason we are unable to kill it despite it being helpless. It's also immune to critical hits, so we cannot coup de grace it.

if it is immune to coup de grace I figure that it is immune to suffocation as well?