3.5 Supervillian Bard

[Triskavanski]

Another build I've been working on is a Super Villian Bard for our Evil campaign.

So far Bard 6/Lyric Thamaturge 4/Seeker of the song 2/Sublime cord 2/Lyric Thamaturge 6 (Leveling up Sublime)

Getting into epic levels for something with Virstour and probably seeker of the song.
I'm gonna be using Acting as my primary performance skill
How can I shove more bardy goodness into the build?

But the important thing is...

What would be a good villian name? What about some catch phrases? Theme?

[Bonzai]

I had a bard villain called "the dirge". He was a bard/Zhentarim spy. The idea was that he had the perfect cover as a well known and respected bard. He would then use his abilities to diguise himself, and then mind control/ influence pawns and patsies to do his dirty work.

For example, he would be hired to assassinate a nobleman. He would disguise himself as a guard, and then enchant another guard to carry out the deed. The guard would carry out the assassination, and when questioned as to who put him up to it, they would describe a non existent guard.

So in a nutshell he is some one who manipulates others while misdirecting others and remaining anonymous.

[John Longarrow]

Not one name... Many names... He is legion.

Work out several different disguises. Much easier if he's a changeling to start with. Then work to establish each in the area. Let him be Sir Malcolm, the reclusive aristocrat known for his safari's. Let him be known as the the merchant Mr. Grey, out an about looking for only the best for his customers. Let him be Dame Everette, known for her grand balls and many suitors. His most memorable persona would, of course, be as the lyricist John Claire known for his song and lute. To his enemies he is known as the Grey Fox, reputed leader of the local assassins guild.

Between secret passages, invisibility, and a few other tricks he should be able to pull this off. Toss in having a couple patsies who play the same characters at different times and you've got a villain who's in more than one place at once!

[Troacctid]

Definitely use Inspire Awe (from Dragon Magic) instead of Inspire Courage.

Lyric Thaumaturge can't normally advance Sublime Chord casting.

[Triskavanski]

Why can't the Thamaturge advance the cord?

Sadly can't use Dragon Magic/Dragonomicon/Dragon Compendrium (Yes, thefirst two are not like the third)

Oh! Its just bard spell casting class. Okay. Might need to just bite the bullet then and go fullly Sublime.

[Troacctid]

Why can't the Thamaturge advance the cord?

Because it only advances Bard.


Spellcasting: At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if you had also gained a level in the bard class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit the bard class gives you.

[Triskavanski]

Ah yeah.. So might be better go to Sublime after taking one more level of lyric. (get the sonic power up)

[Troacctid]

You could try Stormsinger instead of Lyric Thaumaturge. It can advance Sublime Chord, and destroying whole villages with hurricanes and tornadoes is a pretty supervillain-ish thing to do. The breakpoints also work out nicely, because you get to go Bard 5/Stormsinger 5 into Sublime Chord, and Stormsinger 5 also happens to be the level where you get Control Winds, which is probably the class's best ability.

[Triskavanski]

Okay I found a Villain name perhaps.

Paronomasia

Pretty much means Pun. Like the fancy word for it, and it sounds pretty wicked too.

[Darrin]

Pretty much means Pun.


What about some catch phrases? Theme?

You are an evil, wicked person. I like that. We should get along fine.

[FocusWolf413]

When someone asks your name, don't say anything. Play a few measures of music on whatever your instrument is.

[Triskavanski]

At the Moment I'm leaning towards Paronomasia or a pun based on that name. Like Parrot Amesia, or Paronoid Asia.. Though both of those puns sound terrible and don't flow right.

Build thus far (http://1drv.ms/1VJ6eji)

I've posted the build I'm going so far up to level 20. We might go further we might not. Decided to drop the two levels of Seeker of the song for now (will pick them up later though) to get 9th level spells.

I need to figure out sonic based spells, so I could cast a spell at 9th level that deals an additional 9d6 points of damage. (10d6 if I go Illumunian)


Because of the nature of the campaign, the DM is also awarding us bonus feats for good backgrounds. Basically its a killer campaign, last session we lost two characters (Mine being one of them) in pretty much a single blow each.

Since most of the party is also all melee oriented, I decided to hang in the back.


I've decided on a few catchphrases of the character too.

"The pen is Mightier than the sword!"
"Remember to stab the eyes and cut the knees!"

[Bonzai]

Could go Élan style (the GitPG character, not the psychic race).

"Bluff bluff bluff, bluff the stupid Ogre....".

[Triskavanski]

I think I might go something like that.

Runing the Villains name in an anagram machine It spit out an interesting word. Aporia, which is an irresolvable internal contradiction or logical disjunction in a text, argument, or theory. the celebrated aporia whereby a Cretan declares all Cretans to be liars

Things that came with Aporia where

Aporia Nomas
Aporia Moans
Aporia Mason
Aporia Soman
Aporia Monas
Aporia Manos
Aporias Moan
Aporias Mona
Aporias Mano
Aporias Oman
Aporias Noma

Two that I see in there are Manos Aporia and Mason Aporia. Manos only because it silly, and Mason because its a real name.

I plan on the character to be a contradiction overall now. He's all about being a super villain, but often is kinda wrong with it. Like he'll sing a deceptively upbeat song with utterly depressing lyrics.

[John Longarrow]

I plan on the character to be a contradiction overall now. He's all about being a super villain, but often is kinda wrong with it. Like he'll sing a deceptively upbeat song with utterly depressing lyrics.

So your playing Lily Allen?

[Bonzai]

Dragon magazine has a bard variant called the Harbinger. Instead of buffing, it debuffs. I always wanted to make one. His name would be Payne, and he would be a very Emo young man. Singing depressing songs, wearing black, charcoal eye liner...

[Triskavanski]

Question here, When I got Sublime cord, can use use SC spells to power up my bard metamagics?

If not, what about if I use metamagic song to go above 6th level?

[Darrin]

Question here, When I got Sublime cord, can use use SC spells to power up my bard metamagics?


Power up what? I can't tell what metamagics you're trying to use.



If not, what about if I use metamagic song to go above 6th level?

I'm not sure what you mean by going above 6th level. Metamagic Song uses bardic music as part of the cost. Half of your Sublime Chord levels are added to your Bard level to determine your daily number of bardic music uses.

[Triskavanski]

Benefit
When you spontaneously cast an arcane spell that is enhanced by a metamagic feat, you can spend a number of uses of your bardic music ability equal to the number of extra levels that the metamagic feat imposes on the spell rather than raising the spell's effective level. Applying metamagic spontaneously using this method increases the casting time of the spell normally. You cannot use the Metamagic Song feat to add metamagic feats that would make the spell's effective level higher than the highest level of spell that you can cast normally.


Lets say I have a fourth level bard spell on my bard caster levels, and I want to cast it with metamagics that increases the slot the spell would use to 7. A Normal bard can't do this because his spells end at level 6. But what about one with Sublime chord? Could he use a 7th level sublime chord slot to pay for it? Could he use metamagic song to pay the +3 to level cost there?

[Hiro Quester]

To be safe, just make that spell a 4th level sublime chord spell. then you can metamagic it. There are plenty of good bard 4th level spells that don't need metamagic (e.g. Ruin Delver's Fortune).

On the build itself, I don't understand why you would want to begin SC at 12th level. It's a 10 level prestige class, that gets 9th level spells only at its 9th and 10th level. So you would only learn one 9th level spell, at 20th level.

You need bard 6 to get into LT. But I can't see the value of progressing Lyric Thaumaturge beyond 3rd or 4th level. The 3rd bonus 1 and 2 level spells known is useful (shield, and Heroics are good candidates there). And the bonus 3 and 4 level slots are gold. The 5th level ability, though, adding 1d6 damage per spell level to sonic spells, isn't worth giving up a 9th level spell for. It's not even close to the value of Time Stop or Shapechange.

Instead, check out Dragonfire Inspiration feat for using bardic music to turn your inspire courage bonus into extra d6s of fire (or other energy) damage to every single melee hit you and your allies make. That feat alone is way more powerful than the LT's extra d6s to sonic spells.

I'd suggest bard 6/LT4/SC2/Bard PrC8. Nothing in SC after SC2 is as good as the extra bardic music uses and abilities another bard PrC can give you. (For an interesting fire-themed PrC, check out the under appreciated Heartfire Fanner (Dragon 314).

Metamagic song is a good ability. My previous bard used it for persisting some all-day buffs (Harmonize is great--begin bardic music as a move action). But it's another reason to take a bardic prestige class that fully progresses bardic music. Sublime Chord only progresses bardic music uses every 2 levels.

[Spore]

I cannot help picking the class and powers but I love a villain that disguises himself regularly close to the heroes, with unbeatable checks and at least three exit strategies for every situation. Let the villain be the questgiver, let them be the king's advisor AND the king's janitor. Let him be the shopkeeper that sells them the important items. I like arrogant villains like that. You grow to hate them tricking you again.

[Darrin]

Lets say I have a fourth level bard spell on my bard caster levels, and I want to cast it with metamagics that increases the slot the spell would use to 7. A Normal bard can't do this because his spells end at level 6. But what about one with Sublime chord? Could he use a 7th level sublime chord slot to pay for it? Could he use metamagic song to pay the +3 to level cost there?

The text is confusing because the rules don't do a good job of defining what "effective level" means. And I'm not even really sure what "effective level" means, because I think the only metamagic feats that change effective level is Heighten Spell, Earth Spell, and Sanctum Spell. So long as you're not using one of those feats to change the effective level of a spell, then you should be fine.

For example: Casting a maximized fireball normally requires a 6th level slot. However, unless you use Heighten Spell (or a similar feat), it's effective level is still only 3rd. If you Heighten and Maximize it, you get a 6th level fireball spell out of a 6th level slot with an effective level of 6th. If you are a 7th level bard and can only cast up to 3rd level spells, then Metamagic Song is saying you can't use it to reduce the spell slot to 3rd and still treat its effective level as 6th. However, if I understand this correctly, you can use it to cast a maximized fireball out of a 3rd level slot, because that's within the spell levels you can cast already and the effective level is still only 3rd.

If you add Sublime Chord levels on top of that, well, then it gets more complicated because you have two separate pools of spell slots, and they aren't exactly interchangeable. You could not take a 1st level Bard slot, add metamagics so it counts as a 7th level spell, and then use one of your 7th level Sublime Chord slots to cast it. However, you could use one of your Sublime Chord slots to cast a 1st level bard spell (they have a separate spell list, but it includes all bard spells), add metamagic up to 7th, and cast it with one of your 7th level Sublime Chord slots.

As far as increasing the effective level above what you can cast... well, your bard spells may be limited to 3rd or 4th, but if you have Sublime Chord slots that go up to 9th, then you probably could increase your effective spell level up beyond what your bard levels could normally cast because the text of the feat doesn't specify that your higher-level spells have to be in the same class as the spells you are increasing. You could take a 4th level bard spell, increase it up to 7th, then knock down the spell slot down to 4th with Metamagic Song, and still cast it out of your bard slot. If you also Heighten it up to 7th... good for you, because now you're casting a 4th level spell out of a 4th level slot with an effective level of 7th. And so long as you are capable of casting 7th level spells via Sublime Chord (or some other class), then that should work, even though you may not be using your Sublime Chord spell slots. However, I'm not entirely sure you can combine Heighten Spell with a feat that reduces the slot cost of a spell... or rather, you could, but it would be pointless, as Heighten just sets the effective level to be equal to the spell slot.

Someone with a better grasp of metamagics may want to weigh in and straighten me out on this.

But anyway... I think I can simplify this to: if you're not using Heighten Spell (or something similar that changes the effective level), then ignore this restriction. It doesn't apply to you.

(However... getting Heighten would be kinda nice, because with Sonic Might, all your [sonic] spells get +1d6 damage per effective spell level.)

[Triskavanski]

The build (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=8662c381c69d8e5!580&authkey=!AL9KJVaxpwi96sA&ithint=file%2cxlsx) is actually dropping Seeker of the Song for the moment until we get to epic levels.

That way I do get the 9th level, and do also get the 1d6 to dmg per spell level on sonic based spells.

I'm more likely to make use of Timestop over Shapechange just due to paperwork involved. And our game does have knowstones. One of the few things I'm allowed to have from dragon magazines.

EDIT:

I know that damage is on the lower end of things. but well..

When I can get a 3rd level wizard spell, Or at 7th level, I'll take fireball or delayed blast fireball.
Then I'll energy substitute them so they do sonic damage and call it...


Thunderball!


Another question is if I should drop Bardic knowledge for Bardic Knack instead. Yeah its only +3 to skills, but I could ask the GM if I can use the Bardic knowledge of Sublime to continue it. Or maybe not?

[Triskavanski]

So I'm thinking of taking a cohort, but only if leadership is available.

for my evil henchman, I'm developing the idea of using either a Body Guard type or a War Weaver.

Something along the lines of a Illumian Bard or Wizard

With wizard, It would look something like Wizard 3/War Weaver 5/Wayfarer Guide 3/Whatever else??

Bard would be Bard 4/War weaver 5/ Whatever else?

Advantage of bard though would be access to healing magic. I might be able to get the same with the wizard with some sort of shenannigans

Wayfarer guide seems pretty cool of it. "PREPARE THE ESCAPE POD!"

For body guard though, I have nod idea. Saw Knight Protector but I have to have less HD than my cohort, and have to have a lawful good/Lawful neutral cohort.