Shannara Chronicles (TV Show)

[Pex]

I have not read the books.

Watched the show for the first half hour then turned it off. As Twilight was sparkly vampires this was sparkly fantasy. Maybe it would have gotten better had I stuck through with it, but I had enough of cliché romance drama with pointed ears.

I like fantasy genre, but perhaps I just wasn't the target audience. It was on MTV after all.

[Iku Rex]

I think it has potential.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I thought it was OK, way better then I expected from MTV.... I will most likely give ep3 a chance.

[Maelstrom]

It's too...clean. Not as in not enough HBO-style 'action', but the characters are way too clean, makeup'ed and coiffed. Shame...

[Jordan Cat]

It's too...clean. Not as in not enough HBO-style 'action', but the characters are way too clean, makeup'ed and coiffed. Shame...

That's exactly what I was thinking as I was watching it. It felt too...MTV.

[Killer Angel]

To be fair, the starting material isn't exactly top-quality.

[AdmiralCheez]

It didn't feel like a fantasy show to me; it felt very much like a generic teen drama. Everyone was too clean and pretty, even the supposed bandits out in the middle of the wilds. I could forgive the princess having perfect makeup at all times, but the bandit girl who spends all the time outdoors, alone, waiting to ambush travelers? At least mess up her hair a little.

The teens also didn't feel like they were into it, as if the fantasy elements were just a nuisance. At least, that's the impression I got from their acting.

But... I'm clearly not the target audience, and I know the show isn't meant for me, so I really shouldn't complain.

[AgentofOdd]

I'm watching it slowly. The dialogue feels unnatural and the teen romance angle is not my cup of tea. Still, I'm not finding it unbearable, just not for me.

On a minor note,
Why did they change the way people were chosen to serve the Ellcrys? In the books the tree chose those that would serve her. Simply taking the 7 best blindfolded runners kind of gets rid of the whole choosing part.

Still, someone on reddit did post a interesting theory. Perhaps in TV canon, the original selection process had the Ellcrys reach out to the blindfolded candidates and guide 7 that she found worth to her. As time went on and she became weaker & silent, the selection process morphed into a contest of speed, memorization, and luck.

I like the idea. Wish the show had it.

[Pex]

I'm watching it slowly. The dialogue feels unnatural and the teen romance angle is not my cup of tea. Still, I'm not finding it unbearable, just not for me.

On a minor note,
Why did they change the way people were chosen to serve the Ellcrys? In the books the tree chose those that would serve her. Simply taking the 7 best blindfolded runners kind of gets rid of the whole choosing part.

Still, someone on reddit did post a interesting theory. Perhaps in TV canon, the original selection process had the Ellcrys reach out to the blindfolded candidates and guide 7 that she found worth to her. As time went on and she became weaker & silent, the selection process morphed into a contest of speed, memorization, and luck.

I like the idea. Wish the show had it.

Since I had not read the book I didn't know. Now that you tell me they made it up I am convinced they just wanted to make a feminist statement, putting a stamp on it that the target audience is teenage girls more than just the gratuitous shirtless male eye candy. It wasn't just a trial. It wasn't even about a princess not wanting to be all "princessy" as a message to her father. They made it a big deal that a woman would be a Chosen. She wasn't just the protagonist. Her gender was a point to be made. Thank you. Any lingering doubt I was missing out on something is no longer.

[Starwulf]

Wife watched it, she likes it. I caught parts of it, enjoyed the parts I did see. Called the dog being a demon(or shapeshifter or whatever they are) like 20 minutes before the reveal. I'll probably sit down and watch the next one.

To those who are complaining that the characters are to "clean" and in good order: They've basically been living in luxury for quite a while. Of course they are going to look impeccable. Wait till things start to heat up, if they still look impeccable, then complain.

[Cheesegear]

The producers are the guys behind Smallville. Okay. I'll give it a shot.

Production value looks through the roof. It'll be interesting to see if they go the Game of Thrones route, where the overblown CGI budget can only be spent on the opening and closing episodes of the season.

The budget was obviously spent on costume and set design, and not on hiring actors (did somebody say Jupiter Ascending?). John Rhys-Davies is fine, and I will always be happy when Manu Bennett finds work (what are the rest of the cast of Spartacus doing these days?). But, JRD and Manu aren't the main characters, so we've got what we've got.

Actual blood effects. Whoa. Okay. I'm in. This show looks like it should be on The CW...But then MURDER! And showing blood! On-screen death! Okay, maybe Starz, then? I don't know, I have a very strong feeling that MTV is exactly the wrong place for this show. Unless the goal is to make a GoT-light to boost ratings for the channel? But, that doesn't seem like a great long-term plan.

[Starwulf]

Alrighty, can someone please explain to me why there was an old pick-up truck in the shot of the farmstead where they find the two people strung up upside down and gutted?

I mean I thought this was strictly a fantasy world, so either I'm misinformed(which I could be, I've never read the books), or they were just to damn lazy to take the truck out of the shot, which is highly irritating.

[The Glyphstone]

Hinting towards later development, I guess.

Shanarra isn't strictly high fantasy, but High Fantasy set in an After The End world, thousands of years after some sort of apocalyptic war wiped out modern civilization. The fantasy races like dwarves and gnomes and trolls are mutated humans.

[Cheesegear]

Alrighty, can someone please explain to me why there was an old pick-up truck in the shot of the farmstead...

Huge spoiler in the opening credits. I haven't read the books, so it kind of made me mad, that they'd give it away in the opening credits starting from the second episode.

[Ashen Lilies]

I watched the first two(?) episodes:

Production values are really good. Excellent effects, pretty solid costumes and art direction, though I'm confused as to why Amberle is wearing a dress at the party instead of a uniform like all the other Chosen (so we can get a lingering shot of her bare back, I guess).

Acting and writing were pretty godawful, though. A lot of cringeworthy moments. The actress playing Amberle was probably the best of the three main characters in terms of charisma and not having the emotional range of a block of wood (Amberle > Wil >>>>>> Eretria) but I feel like she was at the same time a huge miss; I didn't find her really believable for her apparent physical capabilities and skill in combat. She just didn't really give off the right sort of steel and resolve for me, and the camera's repeated insistence on showing us at length in loving close-up what she looks like in a fancy dress or under a waterfall didn't really help in that regard.

[Seerow]

Hinting towards later development, I guess.

Shanarra isn't strictly high fantasy, but High Fantasy set in an After The End world, thousands of years after some sort of apocalyptic war wiped out modern civilization. The fantasy races like dwarves and gnomes and trolls are mutated humans.

Honestly this makes me interested in reading the books, where I hadn't been interested in show or books before. So thanks for that.

[Cheesegear]

Retroactively Spoilering, didnt realize it was a secret

Is it...Not a secret?
I mean, if you're watching the show, it gets given away in the opening credits of every episode. I imagine in the books, 'the reveal' is more subtle than that, right? You don't just get told immediately? ...Unless you do?

One particular book doesn't really reveal it until the end of the 2nd book.
Another series of books gives extremely vague hints, and finally beats you over the head in Book 8 or so.

Does Shannara just open the narrative with that reveal? Seems like a flawed way to do things.

[Cosi]

It doesn't seem great, but I might watch it for my fantasy fix until Game of Thrones comes back on. I feel like it's going to suffer badly from poor CGI once the army of demons starts showing up in force.


Does Shannara just open the narrative with that reveal? Seems like a flawed way to do things.

Not the mutants one (that I noticed), but it is super obvious that you're looking at a post apocalypse world from the word go. There's a tower (I think the one from Seattle?) in the opening scene, the credits have what seemed like obvious nuclear war symbolism, and there's a helicopter wreck in some scene.

[Cheesegear]

Not the mutants one (that I noticed), but it is super obvious that you're looking at a post apocalypse world from the word go.

Ah, okay.
Seems like for show, that might have been something they would have worked up to. Evidently not.

[Kitten Champion]

Does Shannara just open the narrative with that reveal? Seems like a flawed way to do things.

It's explained pretty early in the first book, if I recall correctly. Though it's not terribly important to anything which actually transpires in the story, it's one of the three things which were potentially interesting about it.

The other two are Allanon - who's Gandalf but with a strong jerkass streak - and the Sword of Shannara, which is sort of like a conceptual weapon from the Nasu-verse... I think, it's been a while.

[Zalabim]

The idea that the world is the far future becomes much clearer by Wishsong. It is eventually written together through the word and void series, I think. I've read the Shannara stuff but not the other.

What the Sword of Shannara does is actually kept secret for most of the first book, but it reveals the truth. How that's useful is still kinda secretive most of the time, but it does get a few obvious moments throughout the series.

[Artemis97]

The fact that everyone is descended from regular old human beings is spoiled? in the opening credits. There's a genetic family tree of sorts that shows up showing elves and gnomes and trolls branching off from humans.


I didn't find the first episode(s) too bad, considering it's a show from MTV. I wasn't expecting much, but it had elves and hints of magic and John Rhys Davies, so I was content. Visually, it was interesting. I can't say much for the writing, since I was watching with the volume down low. The bad guys looked evil enough to freak out my mom, too, so that was amusing.

[DomaDoma]

Well, I was rather hoping we were starting from Elfstones rather than Sword, partly because Sword is possibly the most shameless Tolkien ripoff of all time, partly on account of parallels it's probably either pointless or counterproductive to go into here. So, thanks for assuring me Amberle is in this thing, guys.

But I remember the Shadow of the Past expo-speak in Sword being mystically phrased, but nonetheless quite explicit, about the whole matter of the setting.

I hope they changed the name of the elf named "Lauren". Lauren was male, but even on a female elf that sounds stupid.

EDIT: Wait, what? A thing someone has said about this worldbuilding may very well make shambles of, like, the entire plot. This is not promising.

[Cheesegear]

So, thanks for assuring me Amberle is in this thing, guys.

Is that good or bad?


Wait, what? A thing someone has said about this worldbuilding may very well make shambles of, like, the entire plot. This is not promising.

Are you talking about me, and what I said? Because I honestly don't know if post-Apoc and genetic trees is relevant to the plot. Unless it is. But, if it is plot-relevant, we already have the opening credits, and as long as we aren't brain-dead, we should be able to work out what's happening. Unless the screenwriters treat their audience like idiots and have the opening credits being what they are, and having to explain it.

Kitten Champion mentioned that the worldbuilding isn't plot-relevant. I had thought that it was, given that I have read other, similar books, where the 'reveal' of the world not being a fantasy/sci-fi world, and actually Post-Apoc Earth is actually part of the plot, a big deal and a surprise. If the fact that Shannara is Post-Apoc isn't plot-relevant, and it isn't treated like it's a big deal, then I'm actually okay with it.

[DomaDoma]

Is that good or bad?

It's good. Elfstones is a pretty neat story.

So, this is a spoiler for the first chapter of the book, but as they seem to be taking serious liberties, click at your risk:

In canon, most non-human sentient races are descended from irradiated humans. But not the elves. The elves are very much your traditional better-than-you-since-time-immemorial breed. And that's how long they've had the Ellcrys. And this is very relevant to the plot in the book as I know it.

[Zalabim]

The title credits don't actually include "elves" in the bloodline sequence, though it implies it by transitioning to an elf on the watchtower thingy. It really shines a spotlight on the absurdity of the elves not believing in magic. They disappeared when magic vanished before. They only came back when magic returned. They should really know better. It's not likely to be plot-relevant to the book's plot here, but maybe they'll insert something Chronicles-only. The whole thing makes them seem very human. Gimli, king of the elves, isn't helping appearances any.

[GnollOfErathis]

The title credits don't actually include "elves" in the bloodline sequence, though it implies it by transitioning to an elf on the watchtower thingy. It really shines a spotlight on the absurdity of the elves not believing in magic. They disappeared when magic vanished before. They only came back when magic returned. They should really know better. It's not likely to be plot-relevant to the book's plot here, but maybe they'll insert something Chronicles-only. The whole thing makes them seem very human. Gimli, king of the elves, isn't helping appearances any.

It's fitting that Gimli is the king of the elves, since the first book has an elf named Durin.

I read Sword shortly after it came out, and being a teenaged Tolkien fan of epic proportions, hated it intensely for the blatant LotR rip-offs and refused to read any of the sequels until recently. After discussions of the announcement of this series on another forum, I gave them a try.

The second book, Elfstones of S. (which is what's being adapted here), was okay. The only Tolkienian element was a very broad trope - that elves revere a mystical tree - and the way he handled it was very different from the Trees of Valinor. The more I read after that, though, the less impressed I became. He got away from Tolkien, but what he replaced it with didn't appeal to me. I quit part way through the seventh book (Talismans of S.)

The post-apoc aspect is present in the first book, but doesn't impact the plot. It struck me as a feeble attempt to distance it from LotR - "No, it's set in the future, not the past. Totally different." (Somebody actually said that to me with a straight face. I laughed at him). For as far as I got in the series, it never became as blatant as describing trucks and helicopters. Only later would he retcon in his Word & Void series (set in contemporary America) as being the beginning of Shannara.


While I harp on Sword's Tolkien derivativeness, in all fairness it isn't the worst. That dubious honor goes to Dennis L. McKiernan's first Mithgar books. The second one was written first, as a flat-out sequel to LotR. Tolkien's estate wouldn't allow publication, so his publisher told him to file off the serial numbers, then write a prequel to it.

[An Enemy Spy]

This show looks like it should be on The CW...But then MURDER! And showing blood! On-screen death! Okay, maybe Starz, then?

Are you somehow unaware of Supernatural? That stuff's been on CW for at least eleven years now.

[Cheesegear]

Are you somehow unaware of Supernatural? That stuff's been on CW for at least eleven years now.

Of course! I've been watching Supernatural for 11 years!

The difference is that Supernatural has offscreen deaths. Lots of them, sure. But they're still offscreen. Blood spatter effects are usually lines across a wall, or the onscreen murderer being covered by blood from offscreen. I don't know about anywhere else, but in Australia, Supernatural rides the line between M and MA, and only because of the use of minor cuss words and copious amounts of alcohol consumption - and especially the times when alcohol is abused. Or something.

I know that onscreen violence, and blood effects - originating from onscreen - aren't actually that common. Hence why most episodes are only M. In Australia, that is.

The difference between onscreen and offscreen violence is pretty major, and it's something I specifically look for.

[DomaDoma]

Ripoffs, as such, don't put me off. Hey, those of you who've read Elfstones to the end can test this:
Read off the second paragraph of the first chapter, and then say WELL ISN'T THAT BLOODY CONSIDERATE OF THEM. If this test results in the detection of a ripoff, then you'll see that it's not the derivativeness, it's how you make it your own. Sword, on the other hand, just kind of added a bunch of purple prose, gratuitous creepiness, and (much-inferior-to-Tolkien) setting dressing. The most original thing I can recall was the part where Aragorn and Eomer were merged into the same character, on account of Rohan and Gondor being merged into the same kingdom. Bah.

[Water Bob]

I have not read the books.

Watched the show for the first half hour then turned it off. As Twilight was sparkly vampires this was sparkly fantasy. Maybe it would have gotten better had I stuck through with it, but I had enough of cliché romance drama with pointed ears.

Agreed.

I've only read the first book. Yeah, it was a LotR rip-off, but I loved it. It was more "readable" than LotR, though not as weighty. Sword feels like a good romp in a fantasy world where as LotR feels like intelligent literature.

Still, I wish the show was presented more like Game of Thrones and less like The Hunger Games.

Thumbs down, for me.

[An Enemy Spy]

Of course! I've been watching Supernatural for 11 years!

The difference is that Supernatural has offscreen deaths. Lots of them, sure. But they're still offscreen. Blood spatter effects are usually lines across a wall, or the onscreen murderer being covered by blood from offscreen. I don't know about anywhere else, but in Australia, Supernatural rides the line between M and MA, and only because of the use of minor cuss words and copious amounts of alcohol consumption - and especially the times when alcohol is abused. Or something.

I know that onscreen violence, and blood effects - originating from onscreen - aren't actually that common. Hence why most episodes are only M. In Australia, that is.

The difference between onscreen and offscreen violence is pretty major, and it's something I specifically look for.

Are you watching some censored version of the show? Supernatural is packed to the gills with onscreen deaths. Gunshots, decapitations, burning, impalement, getting ripped apart by dogs, having your eyes burned out of your skull, death by dental equipment, strangulation, literally just exploding into blood... loads and loads of brutal, gory, onscreen death.

[Cheesegear]

Supernatural is packed to the gills with onscreen deaths.

Am I simply desensitised to violence, then? That's concerning. :smallconfused:

[GnollOfErathis]

Ripoffs, as such, don't put me off. Hey, those of you who've read Elfstones to the end can test this:
Read off the second paragraph of the first chapter, and then say WELL ISN'T THAT BLOODY CONSIDERATE OF THEM. If this test results in the detection of a ripoff, then you'll see that it's not the derivativeness, it's how you make it your own. Sword, on the other hand, just kind of added a bunch of purple prose, gratuitous creepiness, and (much-inferior-to-Tolkien) setting dressing. The most original thing I can recall was the part where Aragorn and Eomer were merged into the same character, on account of Rohan and Gondor being merged into the same kingdom. Bah.
The Sword characters I liked the best were the two who aren't in Tolkien. The book was finished before Star Wars came out, so they aren't Han and Chewie, either. There could have been some Princess Bride influence - the book was published in '73 - but I never heard of it until after the movie had been out for a while, so it didn't ping my rip-off senses. If anything, the influence might have gone the other way - Mandy Patinkin and Andre the Giant in the movie look so much like the Hildebrandts' picture of Panamon and Keltset that you could wonder if the makeup designers had seen it.

[Palanan]

I tried watching this twice today. The first time I barely lasted 90 seconds (pretty elves with stylish sweatshirts); after beating my torso, Kylo-Ren-style, I managed to watch nearly fifteen minutes more.

The opening visuals were nice enough: a lushly post-apocalyptic world (wait, was that the Space Needle?) and then something like Minas Tirith with elven subdivisions. Then pretty elves, in a tacky teenage way, and a number of shirtless teenage guy-elves with a decidedly locker-room attitude.

Then running blindfolded through some woods with surprisingly little ground cover, and then a finish line with cheering, racially diverse elven spectators, some of whom are wearing (seriously) little bits of armor on their extravagantly pointy ears.

And then there's a giant mallorn tree twisted around like good-luck bamboo, and ancient tales and horrific apocalyptic visions and such, and then some hunky young elf-guy sneaks over to the cute young elf-princess, whose royal apartments look like an 80s mod version of an old Alan Lee sketch, and after the first few seconds of young-elf-love dialogue my thumb found the power button on the remote.

Gawd. Apparently the elves in Shannara look and talk like teenagers from Middle Suburbia with pointy ears. Not a hint, not a trace of ethereal wonder, not a scrap of otherworldly light or wisdom, nothing remotely elven about any of them, apart from those painfully pointy ears. They were American actors in North Face workout shirts. The first few minutes had a strong Hunger Games vibe, and they're clearly aiming for that demographic--without, it seems, any attempt at reaching a wider audience.

Oh, and there were "elfstones," and despite this being a world shot through with magic, apparently humans don't believe in magic. Despite there being elves around. And elfstones. (Which, in a shameless echo of Star Wars, the young proto-hero is warned from using, since they led to his real father's downfall, and if he doesn't get rid of the stones he might find himself on a damn fool idealistic crusade, or some such.)

Unlikely as it seems, does this ever improve? Or is it a Hunger Games plot with Twilight acting all the way through?



Some of the more regrettable lines:


"I'm sensing a lot of sweaty elf-boy hate."

"Don't you have any respect for elven traditions?"
"Only the ones with parties."

Those are all the lines I can remember, and more than I want to.

So, we see the ruined, overgrown Space Needle in the first few seconds of the opening, and the title sequence makes it plain that this is North America, and something apocalyptic happened after which gnomes, dwarves, trolls and elves evidently evolved.

I've never read the Shannara novels, but apparently the title sequence is a massive spoiler for a deep history which is revealed over the course of the series. I have no idea why the producers chose to spill the secret at the very beginning (plus a mountaintop oil tanker, if the Space Needle wasn't blatant enough). If the series is aimed at people who haven't read the novels, why divulge one of the main surprises? Slightly less specific ruins (with fewer oil tankers and broken sections of highway) would've been just as effective visually, without giving away anything at all.

I can't fathom the reasoning for this, and it just feels cheap, like the producers were jealous of Defiance and wanted their own iconic American structure in their own title sequence. But given all the pretty teenage American elves, I'm not sure if "reasoning" is the word to apply to any of this.

[Kitten Champion]

The acting doesn't really improve beyond the fact that Manu Bennett and John Rhys-Davis do something with what they're given.

If by Hunger Games plot you mean attractive young people fighting with antiquated weapons in somewhat stylized costumes in a post apocalyptic future -- that doesn't really change. The race at the beginning certainly felt like it was intended to play to that crowd. Though the plot proper is just Hero's Journey stuff - chosen one(s), MacGuffin, call to action/big bad evil guy surfacing, wizened mentor... etc.

[DomaDoma]

Just got a promotional thing on my Tumblr:

"Need more Shannara? Go Behind-The-Scenes of Amberle’s battle with the Ellcrys."

Pictured is a GIF of Amberle being tossed a sword by some unseen figure and sparring with some black-clad dude with a bun on his head.

Granted I haven't read the book in a while, but I'm hard-pressed to place how this makes any kind of sense with what I remember of the story. Would those who've seen the show care to explain what's going on?

[Muz]

Is it...Not a secret?
I mean, if you're watching the show, it gets given away in the opening credits of every episode. I imagine in the books, 'the reveal' is more subtle than that, right? You don't just get told immediately? ...Unless you do?

Does Shannara just open the narrative with that reveal? Seems like a flawed way to do things.

The Sword of Shannara doesn't immediately open with it, but it is something that's explained by Alannon early on in the book when he's talking about the history. (Though in the books, it's been long enough to where there's no old cars, Space Needles, or buildings hanging around the landscape anymore...save for one particular exception.) It's not meant so much as a big, Planet of the Apes-style plot reveal so much as it is just a matter-of-fact aspect of the setting.

Speaking of Sword and the very blatant LOTR similarities, it's those similarities that got it published. Editor Lester Del Rey was specifically looking for a way to open up the fantasy book genre in a more commercial way, and show people that there were lots of readers out there who wanted to pay for more fantasy. He came across Brooks's manuscript, and published it in a "Hey, did you like LOTR? Want more fantasy like that? Try this!" sort of way. It (obviously) sold, and played a part in showing the publishing industry that there really was a larger market for fantasy than they thought.

So Brooks got lucky, being in the right place at the right time with a highly derivative book.

Fortunately when he wrote the second book in the series, Del Rey rejected his initial manuscript for various reasons, and made him do some massive rewrites. Out of that, we got Elfstones of Shannara, which is far superior to Sword. (And also, actually, the book I was reading when I decided to try to become an author myself.)

More on-topic: I hated the change with how elves get to be Chosen. I've only seen the first 3 eps, and I wish it didn't have so many of MTV's stylistic fingerprints on it, but it's not without promise. I'm sticking with it for the time being. It also made me realize that I'd been mispronouncing "Amberle" and "Eretria" before now.

And, happily, the irritating MTV-Chosen get slaughtered in bloody fashion before too long. Yaay! :smallbiggrin: I'm looking forward to seeing the Reaper.

[JoshL]

I haven't read any of the books since middle school at the latest, but I remember not really liking them at the time, so never bothered as an adult. Nothing anyone has said is really inspiring me to do so, but that's okay. For folks who like the books, glad you do, liking things is awesome and I'm sorry the show is changing things you liked about the books.

That said, I'm loving it. Looking at it as second tier TV fantasy, it's distinct enough in style and approach that it's not coming across as Game of Thrones Lite (and so far, less abusive. Something to be said for that). If this was on at any other time in recent history, we'd all be blown away. For straight up, swords and magic fantasy, it's so much better than most of what's come before. I have fond memories of Wizards and Warriors, but I haven't seen it since it aired and I was pretty damn young, so there might be that. But production quality is way better than, say, Legend of the Seeker.

If they did a D&D series at around this level, I would be happy indeed. As it is, I will continue to gleefully enjoy this show. As I said, liking things is awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[Mordar]

Is it...Not a secret?
I mean, if you're watching the show, it gets given away in the opening credits of every episode. I imagine in the books, 'the reveal' is more subtle than that, right? You don't just get told immediately? ...Unless you do?

One particular book doesn't really reveal it until the end of the 2nd book.
Another series of books gives extremely vague hints, and finally beats you over the head in Book 8 or so.

Does Shannara just open the narrative with that reveal? Seems like a flawed way to do things.

My recollection as a young reader (12?) was that it was hinted in Sword, but the certainty that it was a post-apoc earth wasn't so clear...the massive metal structure could easily have been any old previous empire.


It's explained pretty early in the first book, if I recall correctly. Though it's not terribly important to anything which actually transpires in the story, it's one of the three things which were potentially interesting about it.

The other two are Allanon - who's Gandalf but with a strong jerkass streak - and the Sword of Shannara, which is sort of like a conceptual weapon from the Nasu-verse... I think, it's been a while.

I know this is a LotR derivation (as was about 90% of the fantasy fiction of the era roughly from the day after LotR cames out...until probably now), but I do think there is a bit of mischaracterization here. Allanon was much more active than Gandalf, not so preachy (though mysterious, I'll grant...can't give the reader all the info else no suspense for later), and something more like a wiz-bang wizard and less like an old guy with a sword. [ASIDE: Yup, I love LotR as much as the next, but Gandalf was like #11 or 12 on the list of impactful characters on me...]

It was suggested that Brooks (who has an abrasive personality at times and many do say "he just got lucky") ret-conned the world as being post-apoc earth. I'm not so sure...I'm kind of thinking it was meant from go. Given his childhood era and the cold war, I think it stands up to the sniff test that it would be his world destroyed by arrogant and manipulated men.

I did really not like that Elves were always around...but I really LOVED his trolls.

Also, really liked Elfstones and Wishsong. Sure, formulaic, but so are all the recipes for chocolate chip cookies, and we love the hell out of those.

So, I do think Brooks had a world view, and while it got expanded over time, it wasn't totally ad hoc.

- M

[Velaryon]

I've been following reports of this show with more than a little trepidation, though I haven't actually gotten around to watching it. At this point I'll probably just wait for the DVD and check it out from the library.

I read the Shannara series before I read Lord of the Rings, so the similarities never bothered me. Sword of Shannara was also my gateway into fantasy literature, so it holds a soft spot in my heart even though I've read hundreds of better books since.

As I recall it, the post-apocalyptic elements are mentioned in Sword, and they show up once in a great while but are basically afterthoughts that provide minimal setting dressing. Not until at least the eighth or ninth book after that does it begin to actually have importance to the setting, and those books are set centuries after the earlier works, so I'm quite sure the TV series will never adapt those stories.

[tomandtish]

My recollection as a young reader (12?) was that it was hinted in Sword, but the certainty that it was a post-apoc earth wasn't so clear...the massive metal structure could easily have been any old previous empire.



This is correct. It is hinted at in Sword. Elfstones talks more about it, but it isn't until much much later that you actually learn it was OUR old earth.

It actually came out first when Brooks wrote Knight of the Void, and let it slip that it was a Shannara prequel. Until then, there was nothing in any of the books that definitively said that the old world they were talking about was ours specifically.

[Muz]

*snip*

It was suggested that Brooks (who has an abrasive personality at times and many do say "he just got lucky")...

*snip*

For the record, Brooks is one of those many who says he just got lucky. :smallsmile: (He says as much in his book on writing "Sometimes the Magic Happens" when he talks about getting Sword published.)

Having met the man twice (once as part of a 4-hour novel-writing workshop that he led at a writers conference), I'd argue against characterizing him as having an abrasive personality, though. But then, I don't watch him every minute, so I could be wrong. :smallwink:

In the series, I'm anxious & excited to see demon army's attack on Arborlon, especially all of the dwarven traps and such they rig up. I hope they have the budget to do it justice from what I recall in the books.

[Mordar]

For the record, Brooks is one of those many who says he just got lucky. :smallsmile: (He says as much in his book on writing "Sometimes the Magic Happens" when he talks about getting Sword published.)

I read that as well...I think it was kinda in the context of "you need some talent, hard work and a lot of luck" sort of thing, but could be mis-remembering. The abrasive characterization might be from some reviews of Sometimes the Magic Works as well as some subsequent forum reading. It seems there is a non-zero population that resents his success...but it might also be that he isn't a swell fella. I don't really know enough, I guess...I just know I loved Sword when I read it (post LotR), ripe for new books and new worlds (at 12 yo), so it has a pretty special place for me.

- m

[Aotrs Commander]

I have only ever read Elfstones... And was very much not impressed.

I am thus somewhat surprised about the whole "post-apocolypse" thing, since I don't particularly recall anything about it then. But it was a long time ago, and I've blocked much of it out of my head, so...

What people have said here is not going to encourage me to watch the show...



(But considering there are now - discounting children's tv stuff I watch when I'm in the room doing something - exactly four shows on the entire of Telly that I bother to make tme for these days...)

[Fishybugs]

I have only ever read Elfstones... And was very much not impressed.

I am thus somewhat surprised about the whole "post-apocolypse" thing, since I don't particularly recall anything about it then. But it was a long time ago, and I've blocked much of it out of my head, so...

It wasn't revealed beyond a few obscure clues until long after Elfstones, which was only the second book of the series.

[Zalabim]

I think the dig that Cephalo's parents started over free of their 'burdens' after the war was the best part for me. He's not a guy that really pulls in audience sympathy. Of course, the truth is far harsher. Don't worry, there's still a little room for love triangle drama, but it gets massively overshadowed by the villain of the week. It's nice to see they've stopped getting captured. By rovers. Finally, the episode ends with a cliffhanger that's already gone right off the cliff.

Overall, I enjoyed this episode more. Probably because last week's Reaper properly lowered my expectations, but this episode is also the biggest departure from the story I was expecting.