Suprise Round Initiative vs Regular Combat Initiative

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Is there a difference between a character's Initiative score rolled for a surprise round and that of regular combat, or is the way that it's handled RAW everyone who didn't act in the surprise round rolls Initiative and slots themselves in where they belong?

[Yanisa]

The hard rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Initiative) state:


At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check.

If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round.

Or in other words. At the start of the combat everyone rolls initiative, but only those aware in a surprise round act in said surprise round according the initiatives.

[TomeGnome]

Or in other words. At the start of the combat everyone rolls initiative, but only those aware in a surprise round act in said surprise round according the initiatives.

This.

It helps to think of initiative as the start of every combat. Everyone is in the combat, so everybody rolls it. In fact, you could even use a surprise round to delay actions and put everyone's initiatives in the order you want before the enemy even has a chance to act. I should experiment with this... hmm...

[Itsjustsoup.com]

Hax, TomeGnome (Does anybody even say Hax anymore?)

Stealing it for profit.

[AnonymousPepper]

This.

It helps to think of initiative as the start of every combat. Everyone is in the combat, so everybody rolls it. In fact, you could even use a surprise round to delay actions and put everyone's initiatives in the order you want before the enemy even has a chance to act. I should experiment with this... hmm...

Wouldn't, I expect, be as big as a Wizard using it to drop some ungodly massive nuke/SOD (Weird) or BFC (Bigby's Grasping Hand?) or debuff (Blackfire?) or maybe a self-buff (Shapechange into a Chronotyryn?).

[Squirrel_Dude]

Seeing as how delaying an action also alters your initiative, it could be detrimental almost immediately.

Let's say the initiatives were

Player 2
Player 3
Monster
Monster
Player 1
Monster
Player 4

And you wanted the players to go in the order of their numbers (1->4). Player 4 is probably hopeless here, but players 2 and 3 could delay their initiative to go after player 1. This wouldnt' have any impact in the surprise round, but it would actually punish you in round one.

Instead of going

Player 2
Player 3
Player 1
Player 4
Player 2
Player 3
Monster...

You'd be going

Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Monster
Monster
Player 1...

Personally, I'd rather get 6 actions in a row than 4 properly ordered actions.