Creating the perfect Illislaadi

[deathbymanga]

So, in a campaign I'm running, I'm going to introduce the BBEG as being an Illislaad. a Death Slaad born from the corpse of a Illithid. As I am only really familiar with the traditional Red, Blue, Green, Grey and Death variants and very little of them themselves, I'll discuss what I have and I hope you can give me some additional reading material to make this creature interesting.

Like how a Green Slaadi is born from a Slaadi egg in a Spellcaster of significant power, an Illislaad (no idea what color this would be, but I'm guessing a dark Purple to match their Illithid origins) is born from a powerful Mind Flayer, with the head of an octopus and 15ft long tentacles stretching from around its mouth. It mostly uses these tentacles to grab prey and immobilize them, making it significantly easier to infect the enemy with an Egg, however they can infect people with eggs by slashing at them with a retractable claw hidden in the end of their tenacles also. The claw physically attached to nowhere and is works mostly like a syringe. If disected it'd be wondered if the fang was even an organic attribute of the body and not just a piece of bone found and burried in its own flesh.

Illislaadi have incredibly powerful but very unstable minds. Unable to really focus this power into complicated psionics like Mind Flayers do, they instead release it in the form of an enourmous wave of psionic energy, almost akin to a Dragon's Breath weapon. those caught in the path of such a wave will be forced to make a wisdom save or have their minds crippled with the overwelming power. Illislaad also possess a limited form of Telepathy which serves more as a means of access to Mindsight which facilitates their hunts. even fellow Illislaad do not risk reading the surface thoughts of another kin and any who attempts to piercing their mind must make a will save or risk being put into a stupor. Instead, Illislaadi use their tentacles for gestures and bizarre sign language, similar to their Mind Flayer forefathers as well as use loud croaks rhythmically timed.

Illislaadi keep their regeneration factor of traditional Slaadi without any hindrances though now they feed only on a diet of brains. They can survive on meat like any other Slaadi, but to do so is disgusting. an Illislaadi who's eaten its first brain will never choose to eat anything else, and can survive indefinitely off of grey matter if it needs to.

what else is there to the Slaadi and Mind Flayers that I missed when creating this particular fusion?

[ShurikVch]

At one hand, fluff prevent appearance of Illislaadi:
As the story goes, slaadi are beings of ultimate chaos, and their forms follow no set pattern. But when Ssendam and Ygorl rose to power long ago, they did not want to someday face a slaad spawned by random mutation greater than they. Thus, they altered the Spawning Stone to limit future slaadi generations to the handful of “races” that they now take.Why not a "standard" Death Slaad with Half-Illithid template?
(You also may add Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) template, and handful of feats from Illithid Heritage line in Complete Psionic)

On the other hand, Slaadi are "ultimate Chaos", and Illithid are usually lawful, so their combination may be kinda awkward

On the Athach (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/athach.htm)'s third hand, the very same sidebar in Manual of the Planes also says:
However, because of the inherently chaotic manner in which slaadi breed, sometimes slightly (and occasionally greatly) mutated slaadi are born anyway.
The greatly mutated slaadi look absolutely nothing like the base slaad form.If you are DM, you may try to do something unusual

BTW, why exactly the Illislaadi?
Is it important to plot?

[deathbymanga]

At one hand, fluff prevent appearance of Illislaadi:

As the story goes, slaadi are beings of ultimate chaos, and their forms follow no set pattern. But when Ssendam and Ygorl rose to power long ago, they did not want to someday face a slaad spawned by random mutation greater than they. Thus, they altered the Spawning Stone to limit future slaadi generations to the handful of “races” that they now take.
Why not a "standard" Death Slaad with Half-Illithid template?
(You also may add Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) template, and handful of feats from Illithid Heritage line in Complete Psionic)

It says they TRIED, however it didn't stop 2 more Slaadi Lords from coming into existence, not to mention those Lawful Slaadi that are taken in by the Githzanki or Githyanki or something to fight other Slaadi. Limbo genuinely doesn't care about things making sense or having a sense or status quo. Even if the Slaadi themselves try to regulate the Limbo, Limbo won't let them.

Also, where's this "Half-Illithid" template? My biggest reason not to use that is that Illithids actually can use Psionic Powers and this thing can't actually "use" Powers. It's got too much unbriddled chaotic psionic energy to be channeled for an attack of precision like what's given by a Psionic Power


On the other hand, Slaadi are "ultimate Chaos", and Illithid are usually lawful, so their combination may be kinda awkward

Forgot about the Lawfulness of Illithid, but I figured the Chaos would win over the Illithid's Lawfulness in this situation.


On the Athach (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/athach.htm)'s third hand, the very same sidebar in Manual of the Planes also says:

However, because of the inherently chaotic manner in which slaadi breed, sometimes slightly (and occasionally greatly) mutated slaadi are born anyway.
The greatly mutated slaadi look absolutely nothing like the base slaad form.
If you are DM, you may try to do something unusual

BTW, why exactly the Illislaadi?
Is it important to plot?

Mostly it comes down to the fact that I liked the idea. Both races "breed" by injecting their children into hosts until they take over and destroy the host, leaving nothing but the child behind. I also love the idea of what this kind of Hybrid would be like. a Giant Frog man with an Octopus head. It's so weird it's kool.

It also had to do with that I wanted to use the Slaadi since I had turned two of my players into Slaadi (well, really they each died with an egg in them and I let the players remake their character as these newborn Slaadi) and the villain's plan is to flood the Material Plane with Chaos from Limbo and the Elemental Chaos. Originally it also included the Far Realm, but I learned it's not really "chaos" like Limbo is.

The "in-game" reason he's half-illithid is because the villain would be searching for a magical weapon capable of tearing rifts between the material plane and the Far Realm, which caused the aberrations to flood the Material Plane in the first place as well as the energy needed to create Psionics outside of Aberrations (i.e. Ghostwise Halflings and other telepathic races), and learn how it was forged so that he can craft similar blades to tear into the Elemental Planes and Limbo. He does this instead of just getting a Wand of Gate or something because a Gate won't let the energies of the other planes through, just passage between passengers (at least that's how I interpret the spell, I might be wrong)

However, there's no way he'd just "know" about this weapon, so I figured if he was an Illislaadi, he'd have access to the Illithid Brain Pool, and then he'd gain memories of whoever used the weapon last to get into the Far Realm.

If you have a better idea I'll hear it

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that an implanted slaadi egg overrules any previous alignment preferences. And I think it's a good combination, some interesting questions are raised without destabilizing the whole concept.

The brain pool - if you mean the elder brain - doesn't provide memories, as far as I know. Elder brains rule mind flayer society, and they know pretty much everything, but they don't hand out information. Now, if your illislaadi is the result of a slaad egg implanted in an elder brain, then we have a reason to say they've got memories - and a problem, because that's just ridiculously powerful :smallbiggrin:.

You could grant the illislaadi manifesting as a wilder, instead of a psion, pick mostly offensive/chaotic telepath powers (catapsi comes to mind, and something like death urge), and have several schisms running concurrently (independantly, of course - this is a slaadi, after all).

[ShurikVch]

It says they TRIED, however it didn't stop 2 more Slaadi Lords from coming into existence3 more Slaadi Lords - there also was Wartle in Tales of the Outer Planes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_the_Outer_Planes)

Limbo genuinely doesn't care about things making sense or having a sense or status quo. Even if the Slaadi themselves try to regulate the Limbo, Limbo won't let them.Actually, it's completely possible to control limited part of Limbo, it's a very useful skill:
Controlled Limbo: Controlling a raw area of Limbo is an exercise of the mind. A Wisdom check (DC 16) establishes control within part of a raw area of Limbo, and the check can be repeated once per round as a free action. A traveler who has failed checks twice in a row gains a +6 circumstance bonus on subsequent checks. If entering an area of raw Limbo from a controlled or stabilized area, a character can make a control check just prior to stepping into the boil.
If the Wisdom check succeeds, the creature has established control over part of the area and can reshape it as she desires, allowing a desired element or a mixture of elements to become dominant. A favorite among travelers from the Material Plane is a chunk of earth surrounded by a small atmosphere of air.
...
Once control is achieved, it lasts as long as the controller remains in the controlled area, or until another creature succeeds in wresting control away. Controlled areas drift at 1d4×10 feet per round in a random direction. If more than one creature successfully gains control of an area at the same time, control goes to the contender with the highest Intelligence. If two controlled areas of Limbo move so they overlap, the overlap area remains under the power of the controller with the higher Intelligence. In the case of a tie in either case, compare Charisma scores.


Also, where's this "Half-Illithid" template? My biggest reason not to use that is that Illithids actually can use Psionic Powers and this thing can't actually "use" Powers. It's got too much unbriddled chaotic psionic energy to be channeled for an attack of precision like what's given by a Psionic Power"Half-Illithid" is in the Underdark; it don't grant "real" manifesting, but give access to Illithid's Mind Blast 1/day, and also several other psi-like abilities (depending on HD): Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Levitate - all by 3/day, Charm Monster 1/day

Also, how about the Half-Dragon template? Dragon #337 have Brainstealer Dragon, with Illithid's tentacles instead usual bite attack, and Mind Blast instead Breath Weapon


You could grant the illislaadi manifesting as a wilder, instead of a psion, pick mostly offensive/chaotic telepath powers (catapsi comes to mind, and something like death urge), and have several schisms running concurrently (independantly, of course - this is a slaadi, after all).There is also Chaos Mantle in Complete Psionic
So, how about Ardent, Mantled Wilder, or Mantled Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)

[deathbymanga]

3 more Slaadi Lords - there also was Wartle in Tales of the Outer Planes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_the_Outer_Planes)
Actually, it's completely possible to control limited part of Limbo, it's a very useful skill:

"Half-Illithid" is in the Underdark; it don't grant "real" manifesting, but give access to Illithid's Mind Blast 1/day, and also several other psi-like abilities (depending on HD): Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Levitate - all by 3/day, Charm Monster 1/day

Also, how about the Half-Dragon template? Dragon #337 have Brainstealer Dragon, with Illithid's tentacles instead usual bite attack, and Mind Blast instead Breath Weapon

There is also Chaos Mantle in Complete Psionic
So, how about Ardent, Mantled Wilder, or Mantled Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)

I thought Wartle was killed, thrown into that holy Lawful Light atop that Lawful Good Mountain top

Hmm, a Half-Brainstealer Illithid might work. hmm, but if the memories of those devoured don't actually pass from one illithid to the next, then how do I go about getting this knowledge acquired by this guy?

I don't think a Slaadi egg in a Elder Brain would result in a simple Illislaad. I'm pretty sure it'd create the Chaotic equivalent of the Modron March, with this new Brain commanding all Illithids to reak havok on the multiverse. heheh, would be rather cool, but, hmm, might actually be kind of kool. Hmm, can Elder Brains telepathically lead choice Illithids? Could have this Illislaad be the minion of a Slaad Brain, who's using him to prepare as many rifts into the planes as he can so that the Slaad Brain can command all Illithids and Illislaads to go out an unleash hell. hmm, nah. while awesome, not the kind of thing. That's TOO big a BBEG I feel.

Hmm, I'll look into grabbing some Mantled Wilder levels to increase his lethality, but for now, i now need to figure out what this thing is. having tentacles and psionic powers to attack with are not exclusive to illithids, so what could work better for this guy?

EDIT: I mean, if he is a Half-Brainstealer, the question becomes how he managed to get access to this knowledge of how to tear rifts into the planes. considering if he's always known, then why's he taken this long to enact his plan

[ExLibrisMortis]

I thought Wartle was killed, thrown into that holy Lawful Light atop that Lawful Good Mountain top

Hmm, a Half-Brainstealer Illithid might work. hmm, but if the memories of those devoured don't actually pass from one illithid to the next, then how do I go about getting this knowledge acquired by this guy?

I don't think a Slaadi egg in a Elder Brain would result in a simple Illislaad. I'm pretty sure it'd create the Chaotic equivalent of the Modron March, with this new Brain commanding all Illithids to reak havok on the multiverse. heheh, would be rather cool, but, hmm, might actually be kind of kool. Hmm, can Elder Brains telepathically lead choice Illithids? Could have this Illislaad be the minion of a Slaad Brain, who's using him to prepare as many rifts into the planes as he can so that the Slaad Brain can command all Illithids and Illislaads to go out an unleash hell. hmm, nah. while awesome, not the kind of thing. That's TOO big a BBEG I feel.

Hmm, I'll look into grabbing some Mantled Wilder levels to increase his lethality, but for now, i now need to figure out what this thing is. having tentacles and psionic powers to attack with are not exclusive to illithids, so what could work better for this guy?

EDIT: I mean, if he is a Half-Brainstealer, the question becomes how he managed to get access to this knowledge of how to tear rifts into the planes. considering if he's always known, then why's he taken this long to enact his plan
You can take a few levels in Illithid Savant, it allows you to get memories (skill ranks, class abilities) from brains you eat, or just fiat it.

Who knows what a slaadi egg implanted into an elder brain would result in? Not a regular illislaad, perhaps, but you're well within your rights to rule that you get an illislaad entirely composed of brains (including hands, feet, and tentacles, of course).

Yes, elder brains can telepathically lead illithid, at the very least because they have dominate powers, and they can command illithid to fail the save (being LE, and their society being what it is, they will probably do so).

Anarchic Initiate levels are good for this; the class is tied to Limbo, and upgrades your Wild Surge to Chaotic Surge at level 1 (25% chance each of -50%, +50%, +100%, or no change to all variable, numeric effects of powers you manifest).

[deathbymanga]

You can take a few levels in Illithid Savant, it allows you to get memories (skill ranks, class abilities) from brains you eat, or just fiat it.

Who knows what a slaadi egg implanted into an elder brain would result in? Not a regular illislaad, perhaps, but you're well within your rights to rule that you get an illislaad entirely composed of brains (including hands, feet, and tentacles, of course).

Yes, elder brains can telepathically lead illithid, at the very least because they have dominate powers, and they can command illithid to fail the save (being LE, and their society being what it is, they will probably do so).

Anarchic Initiate levels are good for this; the class is tied to Limbo, and upgrades your Wild Surge to Chaotic Surge at level 1 (25% chance each of -50%, +50%, +100%, or no change to all variable, numeric effects of powers you manifest).

would a Slaad even be able to get close enough to infect an Elder Brain with an Egg?

Is there only 1 Elder Brain entirely? if the Slaadi egg kills the Elder Brain as it bursts out, what would this do to the Illithids themselves?

[lord_khaine]

Honestly im not even sure if infecting an Elder brain with an egg would work or should work.

But losing one, while a great blow to that Illithid community, would not mean the end of the race, since there are one in each community.

[deathbymanga]

Honestly im not even sure if infecting an Elder brain with an egg would work or should work.

But losing one, while a great blow to that Illithid community, would not mean the end of the race, since there are one in each community.

right, a brain isn't exactly like a whole body where if you tear through the flesh everything else falls out, a brain is just one thing, it might loose memories, but I doubt it'd be killed

[ExLibrisMortis]

would a Slaad even be able to get close enough to infect an Elder Brain with an Egg?
Yes, easily. Well, not easily, but sufficiently high-level slaadi do exist.

The Thoon elder brain, in MMV, is a lower-level elder brain (CR 15) specifically designed for DMs who don't want to go into epic levels to face the boss. The regular elder brain is CR 25, and it does have at-will astral projection, regeneration/acid or sonic, and a good range on some special senses (mindsight, blindsight), so it's not exactly easy to kill. There are, however CR 21 and 25 slaadi in the ELH, and death slaadi apparently advance up to 45 HD including class levels (the Guardian of the Stone), so hey, implant that brain and go. If you want to, of course.

Do note that once the implant is there, it's not a matter of killing the brain as such. The slaad grows inside the body and bursts out at maturity. You can also use slaad fever (supernatural disease), like the blue slaad uses.

[ShurikVch]

Note: in Dragon #308 was article "Armed To the Tentacle", which have some Illithid-specific equipment - such as throwing brain-extracting ball, or living symbiotic carapace armors
All living "items" have lawful alignment, but you can slap Anarchic template on them

I thought Wartle was killed, thrown into that holy Lawful Light atop that Lawful Good Mountain topFact of Wartle's supposed death don't negate fact of his former existence
EDIT: I mean, if he is a Half-Brainstealer, the question becomes how he managed to get access to this knowledge of how to tear rifts into the planes. considering if he's always known, then why's he taken this long to enact his planSince our Illislaadi is a BBEG, then, for example, maybe he read it in Codex of the Infinite Planes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#codexoftheInfinitePlanes), or somehow got in contact with Tharizdun (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tharizdun)?

[deathbymanga]

Yes, easily. Well, not easily, but sufficiently high-level slaadi do exist.

The Thoon elder brain, in MMV, is a lower-level elder brain (CR 15) specifically designed for DMs who don't want to go into epic levels to face the boss. The regular elder brain is CR 25, and it does have at-will astral projection, regeneration/acid or sonic, and a good range on some special senses (mindsight, blindsight), so it's not exactly easy to kill. There are, however CR 21 and 25 slaadi in the ELH, and death slaadi apparently advance up to 45 HD including class levels (the Guardian of the Stone), so hey, implant that brain and go. If you want to, of course.

Do note that once the implant is there, it's not a matter of killing the brain as such. The slaad grows inside the body and bursts out at maturity. You can also use slaad fever (supernatural disease), like the blue slaad uses.

ELH?

what book is the Guardian of the Stone from?

Thoon definitely sounds interesting, but more like something I'd like to use in a different campaign all on its own. Like an ancient Aztec like Dwarven city that also seemed to Worship Thoon for some reason and the Thoon Elder Brain found it in their travels and began setting up a base deep in the center of the lost city. Eventually the lost city gets discovered and turned into a tourist site, only for patrons to start leaving the location...odd, their behavior stiff and different from before. Eventually the players uncover the truth and that find the Thoon Brain and his forced and must defeat the forces completely.

That, or maybe in this campaign the players find a bunch of servants of Thoon, wandering aimlessly, like no one was there to give them guidance or tell them the word of thoon, and they become violent and attack the players as they move through the temple, only to find a half-eaten discarded corpse of a Elder Brain of Thoon, his knowledge devoured and taken by the Illislaad long ago, left rotting in this temple for years.


Note: in Dragon #308 was article "Armed To the Tentacle", which have some Illithid-specific equipment - such as throwing brain-extracting ball, or living symbiotic carapace armors
All living "items" have lawful alignment, but you can slap Anarchic template on them
Fact of Wartle's supposed death don't negate fact of his former existenceSince our Illislaadi is a BBEG, then, for example, maybe he read it in Codex of the Infinite Planes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/artifacts.htm#codexoftheInfinitePlanes), or somehow got in contact with Tharizdun (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tharizdun)?

actually, Tharizdun seems like he might be an interesting choice as he seems to be sealed in the Ethereal Plane, not some Outer Plane or even Ravenloft. It actually makes me think maybe this Illislaad is working for Tharizdun to flood the Material Plane (and by proxy the ethereal) with Chaos from Limbo and the Elements to destroy. Because of this, even evil gods like Lolth begin sending agents to try and stop it however they can, like assassinating the Illislaad's targets for the ritual before he can get his hands on them.

[ExLibrisMortis]

ELH?

what book is the Guardian of the Stone from?

Thoon definitely sounds interesting, but more like something I'd like to use in a different campaign all on its own. Like an ancient Aztec like Dwarven city that also seemed to Worship Thoon for some reason and the Thoon Elder Brain found it in their travels and began setting up a base deep in the center of the lost city. Eventually the lost city gets discovered and turned into a tourist site, only for patrons to start leaving the location...odd, their behavior stiff and different from before. Eventually the players uncover the truth and that find the Thoon Brain and his forced and must defeat the forces completely.

That, or maybe in this campaign the players find a bunch of servants of Thoon, wandering aimlessly, like no one was there to give them guidance or tell them the word of thoon, and they become violent and attack the players as they move through the temple, only to find a half-eaten discarded corpse of a Elder Brain of Thoon, his knowledge devoured and taken by the Illislaad long ago, left rotting in this temple for years.
Epic Level Handbook. Guardian of the Stone is from the Manual of the Planes, I believe, it just mentions an advanced 45 HD death slaad guarding the spawning stone.

And that's a good idea. Both of them.

[deathbymanga]

Epic Level Handbook. Guardian of the Stone is from the Manual of the Planes, I believe, it just mentions an advanced 45 HD death slaad guarding the spawning stone.

And that's a good idea. Both of them.

it also mentions that the guardian is an ardent of the highest level, capable of crafting anything they desire from the chaos. and considering projectiles are subject to the gravity of the thrower, why not just drop a bath tub of lava on someone's head? :P though by epic level, lava must feel like a cold drink of ice water to the player :P

any other ideas I might throw at this?