Of Monks and Gauntlets

[Starkeeper]

Me and my DM are having an argument about whether Monks could use Gauntlets and still get their unarmed damage bonus, he pretty much vetoed it as a no so there's not much else to discuss but I wanted to hear other people's opinions.

My argument is that the Gauntlets of the Talon[Relic](MiC p. 103, I don't know if I can quote its effects) offers an increase in Monk unarmed damage as well as allowing you to treat unarmed damage as slashing. My DM stated that Monks don't need to use their hands for unarmed strikes, which I agree with, but how do you explain the slashing part? Does your headbutt suddenly start slicing people in half just because you're wearing a pair of gauntlets? DM said "yes because Relic" and that was the end of it.

Regardless of the discussion's result, I won't bring this up to my DM again, I'm just curious really.

[CharonsHelper]

If you're playing Pathfinder - no.

However - late in 3.5 there was a FAQ which said yes - you get unarmed damage with gauntlets as a monk. (Gauntlets being far cheaper to enchant and not using up a neck slot.) Though you would need your hand free in order to get the enchantment bonus.

Your DM should let you have it. 3.5 monks are pretty terrible even with magic gauntlets. :P

[Psyren]

If you're playing Pathfinder - no.

Actually yes in Pathfinder - Ascetic Strike + Martial Versatility gets you Monk progression -4 on gauntlets (or you can forget Martial Versatility and use a cestus instead, saving a feat.)

To get to full monk progression instead of monk -4, you can then wear a Monk's Robe and bam, you're there.

[Starkeeper]

This is pure 3.5(no 3.0 and no Amulet of Natural Weapons), there's also couple house-rules in place to make Monks suck less but that's not the issue at hand.

[Necroticplague]

Me and my DM are having an argument about whether Monks could use Gauntlets and still get their unarmed damage bonus, he pretty much vetoed it as a no so there's not much else to discuss but I wanted to hear other people's opinions.

My argument is that the Gauntlets of the Talon[Relic](MiC p. 103, I don't know if I can quote its effects) offers an increase in Monk unarmed damage as well as allowing you to treat unarmed damage as slashing. My DM stated that Monks don't need to use their hands for unarmed strikes, which I agree with, but how do you explain the slashing part? Does your headbutt suddenly start slicing people in half just because you're wearing a pair of gauntlets? DM said "yes because Relic" and that was the end of it.

Regardless of the discussion's result, I won't bring this up to my DM again, I'm just curious really.

On the gauntlets+monk issue, it seems like a pretty clear "yes".

This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.
+

A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage. So a Gauntlet is considered an Unarmed Strike, which for monks deals increased damage. Thus, a gauntlet does increased damage when used by a monk. I'm not sure how there's any wiggle room for argument. Still handy to combine enchanted Gauntlets with Nechlace of Natural Attacks for two set of enchantments.

As for the next part: magic items do what they say they do. The gauntlet magically enhances you so that your fighting technique can leave lacerations in an opponent in addition to breaking bones. The fact it makes your unarmed attacks slashing is magic, thus separate from the physical form of the item. Gaunlet's of Ogre Stregnth still help you with Stregnth-involved things that don't involve your hands, why would this item be any different?

[CharonsHelper]

Actually yes in Pathfinder - Ascetic Strike + Martial Versatility gets you Monk progression -4 on gauntlets (or you can forget Martial Versatility and use a cestus instead, saving a feat.)

To get to full monk progression instead of monk -4, you can then wear a Monk's Robe and bam, you're there.

Fair enough.

But it's not the default as is it in 3.5.

[Âmesang]

I'm all for monks utilizing gauntlets, magical or not. I present you with Exhibit A:
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/temp/kazuya%20mishima.png
Are you going to take his gloves away from him?
Sure, gauntlets aren't considered special monk weapons… well, technically, monks aren't proficient with their own unarmed strikes either, right? Heck, they're both under the same weapon classification.* :smalltongue: Besides, growing up playing fighting games has led me to love the sight of fiery punches and lightning kicks and what not. Otherwise what does that leave you? Necklace of natural attacks? Greater magic fang and silvered claw? Kensai?

*Admittedly I wonder how spiked gauntlets play into it?