View Full Version : Truth Spinners [MitpII]

2007-06-13, 12:12 PM
Truth Spinner
Medium-sized magical beast
HD: 7d10+14 (52)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) Climb: 20 ft. (4 squares)
AC: 16 (+3 Natural armor, +3 Dex,)
Touch Ac: 13
Flatfooted Ac: 13
BAB: +7
Attack: Bite +8 melee
Full-Attack: Bite 1d6+1 and poison
Space: 5 ft.
Reach: 5 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison, Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60', Low-Light Vision, Spin the Law, Spin Together, Zone of Truth
Saves: Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +4
Abilities: Str 13 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 7
Skills: +20 Climb, +20 Craft (Web Spinning), +8 Hide, +10 Move Silently, +10 Spellcraft, +10 Concentration (+14 When Casting on Defensive), +5 Spot, +5 Listen
Feats: Combat Casting, Improved Initiative.
Environment: Subterranean and temperate forest
Organization: Solitary, Spinning party (3-5), or Alliance (5 and 1d6 Subterranean creatures)
CR: 10
Treasure: Half Standard, Half Silk Art
Alignment: Always lawful (Any)
Advancement: 7-9 HD (medium); 9-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -

In front of you is a spider, but it's not like any other you've ever seen. It glows a bright, healthy, pure gold, and beneath it, you see the workings of a beautiful, and magical tapestry.

Extremely lawful and magically talented by nature, Truth Spinners are Medium-sized spiders that keep the law, and cast lawful spells through the spinning of their own silk. They live in small spinning parties, which allows them to create beautiful art, and threatening spells. They will often allow lawful characters to pass by, and only hunt Chaotic characters and creatures. If attacked by Lawful creatures, however, or it it feels it or its area is threatened by intrusion or invasion (Especially if the Offenders are carrying something that is alight), it will attack anything, regardless of alignment.

Description: The Truth Spinner is a golden spider, glistening with purity and law, and imbued with the very core of Law, looking near-perfect in every way, every joint is at the perfect angle, the body perfectly formed.

When a Truth Spinner uses its spell-like abilities, it spins a web, but unlike a normal web, it is a little tougher looking, and it is always perfectly formed, never a misplaced curve or angle, the whole web perfectly symmetrical. When a Truth Spinner spins together with other Truth Spinners, their webs become more and more complex and intricate, but still perfectly formed, and symmetrical.

When in combat, a Truth Spinner fights without tricks, complementing its allies' strengths and covering for their weaknesses.

Fluff Text: Truth Spinners are wise and intelligent, but they are fragile. They try to stay away from combat, smart enough to know their weaknesses, instead spinning webs of spells to weaken or damage any Chaotic creature they see. Although they prefer to stay in their caves, where they can care for their eggs and young, they will form alliances with other Lawful creatures in the area, such as Mind Flayers, to hunt down any Chaotic threats in the area. Inevitables and other Lawful creatures will sometimes recruit Truth Spinners for their Zone of Truth Ability, which makes it possible for Trials to go on with perfect truth. Usually, Truth Spinners will be content with serving their duty as Lawful creatures, and not expect any payment for their services in trials, but will refuse to aid in a trail for more than a week, as it forces them to be too far away from their nests and homes.

In combat, a Truth Spinner prefers to stand back, while its allies distract its enemies, and a group of them use their Spin Together ability to augment their already powerful spells. However, if it knows a creatures is chaotic through its Detect Chaos spell-like ability, it will center its casting on that creature

Racial Bonuses: A Truth Spinner gains a +10 racial bonus to Climb checks, and a +10 bonus to Craft (Web Spinning).

Poison: Bite, Fortitude Save (DC 16); initial and secondary damage 2d6 Intelligence

Spin the Law: When a Truth Spinner uses its spell-like abilities, it must spin a web as its way of focusing its magical and lawful energy. If it choses, the Truth Spinner may choose to add an extra +5 effective caster level to the Spell, but a Craft (Web Spinning) check must be made, and must beat (DC 30). Choosing to make the check changes the time it takes to use the spell-like-ability from a standard action to a full-round action. If the Check fails by less then 5, the spell-like ability functions with no additional caster levels, and no penalties are incurred, but if the check is failed by more than 5, then the tapestry of the Web has been torn, and the Spell-like ability fails.

Spin Together: When a Truth Spinner Spins a spell, any other adjacent Truth Spinner may make a Craft (Web Spinning) check against DC 25 to add another target to the spell, (If the has a duration of Instantaneous, the same target may be chosen twice), or in the case of an area spell, add another 10 feet to the area the spell effects, and add a +1 caster level to the spell. Only up to 4 Truth Spinners may use their Spin Together on the same spell. The Truth Spinner must prolong the casting of the Spell-like ability to a full round action to allow the rest of the Truth Spinners to add their contributions. If the check fails, then that Truth Spinner simply does not add his/her additional effects to the spell, but no other penalties are incurred. A Truth Spinner may not choose to both add +5 caster level with the Spin the Law special ability to its spell-like ability and use its spin together Special Ability on the same casting of a spell-like ability.

Zone of Truth: The namesake of these creatures, any creature with an intelligence of 3 or higher cannot lie, use the bluff skill, or feint in combat within a 40 ft. radius of the Truth Spider. The Truth Spider cannot turn off its Zone, and since this Zone is created from the very fabric of Law, it cannot be dispelled by anything but a deity, and the effects are 100% impossible to circumvent via any means but the highest of Divine Intervention. If contacted outside its Zone via magic or other means, it will know if it is being lied to automatically. This ability and the Zone of Truth Ability should be treated as Extraordinary abilities. Spells such as Glibness that usually allow someone to lie in a Zone of Truth do not function within the Zone. Illusions do not function within the Zone, and anything in the Zone, including the Truth Spinner itself, get a +4 bonus to disbelieve Illusions outside the Zone.

Spell Like Abilities: In order to cast a spell-like ability, the Truth Spinner must make a standard action as normal with spell-like abilities. However, instead of merely focusing to cast their spell-like abilities, the Truth Spinner spins a web that may be any size up to 5 by 5 feet, and spun on any hard surface within the Truth Spinner's square. The web acts as any normal web would, (Is flammable, and easily breakable, but slightly sticky) and is dissolved by the power of the spell-like ability once the ability is cast. At Will: Detect Chaos, Obscuring Mist. 2/day: Blade Barrier, Dictum, Flame Strike, Hold Monster, Harm, and Spell Resistance. Spell-like Abilities function as cast by a 13th level Cleric with the (Law) Domain.

Using this Monster: The place to fight this monster is in its own den, preferably in the company of fellow Truth Spinners, to allow for optimal power. At higher levels, this monster can be placed at the back of a team of strong melee-based combatants, always Lawful, casting spells to assist their allies, or harm their enemies. A Truth Spinner will usually start the battle with Dictum, to weaken any Chaotic enemies, followed by buffs of Spell Resistance, Blade Barriers and Obscuring Mist to slow their enemies, before finishing off enemies with Flame Strikes. Truth Spinners are logical and methodical when fighting, always making the most intelligent and sensical combat decisions.

In a more non-combat setting, the Truth Spinners could be used in a trial, using their Zone of Truth ability to force the PC's to tell the truth, regardless of any spells or Bluff ranks. A DM using this monster can persuade PC's to find a different solution to a trial besides lying, such as investigating the crime, or at the very least hiring a good lawyer.

To Vote, post MitP: Yes for yes, and Mitp: No for no. Please add constructive criticism to your post, and point out any glaring errors I may have made.

2007-06-13, 02:10 PM
I am hardly an expert on this but I THINK anything that uses Truespeak is automatically disqualified from publication due to copy-right issues.

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-13, 02:14 PM
I am hardly an expert on this but I THINK anything that uses Truespeak is automatically disqualified from publication due to copy-right issues.

Hmm? I thought Truespeak was OGL, but they didn't bother to put it in the SRD...

2007-06-13, 02:17 PM
I really wouldn't know either way...

2007-06-13, 02:38 PM
Okay, I have removed all traces of Truespeech from it, it is now Legally Compliant. (And in more ways than one) Commence with the Voting now please!:smallbiggrin:

2007-06-13, 09:37 PM
I've got a question. Whats this "OGC" stuff?

Cool monster. MitP Vote: Yes and please tell what OGC is. Because I have no idea.

2007-06-13, 09:49 PM
Thought it was OGL for Open Gaming License, meaning the stuff that isn't copywrited and can be used by anyone. Even if its OGC the meaning is the same I'm sure.

So the wealth by level guidelines, for instance, are not part of the OGL. They can't be freely posted on the forum and if you had a monster that for some reason needed to have the wealth by level guideline in one of its special qualities it woudl be disqualified.

2007-06-13, 09:52 PM
OGC is open game content, its the stuff that is on the SRD, and is allowed by the Wizards of the Coast for anyone including third parties (Read Us) to use and publish. It includes basic mechanics, the rules for most classes, and I think psionics, ummm maybe Epic stuff, feats, skills, mostly the stuff from PHB. Truespeech was created by Wizards of the Coast, and is something that they own, it is something original that they own intellectually. That's why I had to delete any traces of it, and change the flavor, but I kinda like it this way anyway.

The SRD is an online database of almost everything that Wizards allows us legally to use. Also, I just learned the magic of the roach smiley check it out:

:roach::roach: I made two! Yay!

OGC os the stuff that falls under the OGL.

2007-06-13, 10:47 PM
I dunno if anything with 35hp can really ever be called CR 10, but I love the flavour. Probably cull back on the effective caster level of its spell like abilities and/or give it a few more HD to even it up, to around CR 8-9, and you have a very well -- WHOA! that poison is fierce!


so CR 10 you say...

oh, 5d10+10 should be 37 hit points too, but I'd still give it one or two more HD for longivity in combat, skills points and an extra feat.

2007-06-14, 06:34 AM
For a CR10 37hp seems a bit low, I could take that out on a Greataxe Critical, let alone a fireball.

MitP: Yes, although I'd prefer more hp.

2007-06-14, 07:01 AM
Okay, I'd rather keep the caster level 13, cause that's the minimum level to cast dictum, which I think this thing needs. I will, however, bump up the HD, probably 2 more. The flavor I was going for was a spider that is majestic, powerful, but just a little fragile. With a climb speed, it can get time to cast its stuff and then bump up the caster level to the point where it does fun stuff. I guess the shield of faith can go, and then I'll add 2 HD, and we'll call it a day. For his feat, I went with Improved Initiative, since you can never go wrong with that, and this guy hates to get hit just because he didn't go first.

2007-06-15, 09:02 AM
Bump it up bump it up bump it up ya'll.

2007-06-15, 09:22 AM
Mitp Vote: yes. The one comment I would have is, if the zone of truth is so effective as to disable combat feints, it seems like it should also provide some benefit against illusions. This could either be very powerful (acts as an antimagic field to all illusion spells), modest (+4 on any attempt to resist an illusion for any creature within the area), or something else, but it does seem to be missing.

2007-06-15, 09:28 AM
Oh shoot you're right I'll add that in.

2007-06-16, 09:58 AM
Bumpity bump

2007-06-16, 11:39 PM
Please someone read this and vote for it for Mitp, or at least please tell my why people passing this up?

Oh, and Bump

2007-06-18, 10:15 PM
Please for the love of DnD and all things good, for the love of Mountain Dew, Pizza, Friday nights, please someone post in this thread besides me!

2007-06-19, 07:25 AM
Oooh. Pretty spideys spinnin' webs. I wonder whut kin' of flies they are tryin' to... Aaaah! Flame I'm on fire!

Hmm, very unique. I'm a little unsure on the mechanics, though. How exactly does the webspinning work in combat? Do they need walls to spin them from? How hard are the webs to break/burn? Does it incur an attack of opportunity? What will a combat against truthspinners look like, and where exactly are the spells coming from?

All in all, nice work. But I'm reluctant to vote before I have the "feel" of how the monster behaves in combat. As to the truenaming stuff, I had the same problem. My latest project, The Nameless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47825), was originally based around the fact that they were creatures with no truenames, who stole the names of others. Changed names to souls, and all went well :smallsmile:

As to people replying to your post, I really don't know what makes some threads die, and others burst with comments. I've had the same problems, but I guess I'm not much of a marketer :smalltongue:

2007-06-19, 03:13 PM
Okay, some of the stuff you asked about is already inside the entry, I'm assuming you didn't see it, or I phrased it poorly. For the stuff that was not in there, its in there now.

1. Webspinning is just the way that its spell like ability is focused and expended, it's just a little flavor. The fact that they focus their spell-like ability by spinning a web is just flavor text.
2. I added this, they can spin on any hard surface that is within their square, their web may be any size.
3. The Webs are just regular spider webs, I added that as well.
4. As webspinning is just the way it focuses its spell like ability, it does provoke an attack of opportunity, because the usage of a spell-like ability provokes an attack of opportunity.
5. This part is right under the word combat, the basic idea is that it is a fragile Wizard Type that attacks Chaotic people first, and everyone else second. It hangs back unless completely necessary.
6. The spells are spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm).

2007-06-19, 09:08 PM
^^ Heh, yeah I guess I didn’t read it properly. I was in a rush, but you seemed quite desperate for a constructive comment :smalltongue:

Anyway, I've read it through thoroughly now, and I can't think of anything else to keep me from voting

MitP: Yes

Good job, Logman :smallsmile:

2007-06-21, 12:29 PM
Bump. I still need people to post/vote here please!

2007-06-21, 10:09 PM
Seriously, Bump a bumpity doo.

2007-06-22, 01:09 PM
I would tell you to stop the constant bumping, but that would make me a hypocrite.

Anyway I like it. MitP: Yes

2007-06-22, 10:40 PM
7D10 + 14 has an Average of 52 [(7 x 5.5) + 14]

Magical Beasts have Full base Attack Bonus. BAB should be 7, AB should be 7(8); also, no Grapple Line.

Saving Throws should be: Fortitude 5(7), Reflexes 5(8), Willpower 2(4),

Abilities: Str 13 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 7

Skills: [10 x (2 + 3)] = 50

Climb 9(20)
Craft (Web Spinning) 8(20)
Hide 6(9)
Sneak 8(11)
Spellcraft 7(10)
Concentration 8(10)
Spot 5(7)
Listen 5(7)

You appear to be six points over

2007-06-23, 09:50 AM
I fixed the errors, I guess when I increased the HD, I forgot to increase the BAB and saves. For the rest, I am terribly sorry for my bad math. I decreased the spot and listen by 2 apiece, and Hide and Move Silently by 1 apiece. Thanks a ton for finding those errors.

2007-06-26, 12:46 PM
Bump please vote on this! Please!

2007-06-27, 02:46 PM
I've got to say that I love the idea of this thing. Would fit right in a chaotic - lawful campaign.

Only thing that popped to mind was the following:

In combat, a Truth Spinner prefers to stand back, while its allies distract its enemies, and a group of them use their Spin Together ability to augment their already powerful spells. However, if it knows a creatures is chaotic through its Detect Chaos spell-like ability, it will center its casting on that creature

Since these things work mostly in Spinning party's (at least, thatís the vibe I'm getting), I don't really see how that'd go. Admittingly, the HP is higher now, but for these relatively frail things to distract their enemies might be rather risky.

Just my two cents.

Oh, and, if I understand correctly, I can only vote if I've actually submitted something to this whole thing. And seeing how I'm not planning on creating a critter anytime soon (my knowledge of DnD is seriously lacking among things), I'm afraid I can't throw you a yes. Now, if I'm mistaken, let me know, and I'll come vote for ya. :smallbiggrin:

2007-06-27, 02:49 PM
In the largest group, they are accompanied by Subterranean monsters as well. Preferably those Drow or Mind Flayers would attack, while they muster up power.

And Fax (The leader of this) said that since this book is going to be by the community, for the community, anyone can vote.

2007-06-27, 04:56 PM
I thought all spiders were supposed to serve Lolth and her chaotic intentions. and to fix the weakness in combat I'd add some DR. Maybe some SR too. Definitely some defensive spell-like abilites. Right now it really doesn't look like a CR 10. Maybe 6 or 7.

2007-06-27, 05:50 PM
First of all: MitP: Yes.

Secondly, yeah, okay, in the large group they'd be accompanied by other creatures. But in the Spinning party's, which seems the most suited for these guys, they wouldn't be, correct?

Also, I was thinking about some kind of tanglefoot bag idea. Only upping how annoying it would be, aka, get a couple of the people who enter stuck to the floor, and have them deal with removing the web before being able to get close (or cast spells, seeing a concentration check would be needed to cast spells in such a condition) and attack.

Just an idea, something web like that gets people stuck seems appropiate though.

2007-06-27, 06:20 PM
One problem... Why Int 8? Int 8 is a bit slow. Do you really want a dumb half-orc (Int 6) to be able to lie to these things? If you want to target intelligent creatures, make it Int 3 or higher. Otherwise, put a save on it or something, so that the clever rogue with max ranks in Bluff is not worse off than the dumb rogue with the same.

2007-06-27, 07:09 PM
Firstly, thank you for pointing out the Intelligence thing, I just fixed that.

Secondly, Combat weakness has been a problem with these guys, and I thinks I has the solution. Previously, I had them using sheild of faith, but that isn't going to work, so here's the idea: Give them two more Spell-like abilities, Blade Barrier, and Spell Resistance. Both are powerful, granted, but can be overcome by a party of a reasonable level. I think that those two would work pretty well.

Thirdly, Loloth may have control over some spiders, but let's say these ones are infused with divine lawfulness, and so are immune to Loloth's control.

Fourthly, if you figure in the poison, I think that the CR should be about 9-10, according to the things I've been reading by the Tribble. By giving them the above spell-like abilities, they should be worth 10.

2007-06-27, 07:43 PM
I'll give it a Mitp:yes now.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-06-27, 10:55 PM
Have an MitP Vote: Yes.

2007-06-28, 09:35 PM
MitP: Yes.

That said, I think making the zone of truth only stoppable by divine intervention seems extreme (I could see these being used to make court cases very boring). It might make more sense to make it be treated as a zone of truth of caster level twice that of the spider or something like that.

2007-06-28, 10:42 PM
No, I'm sorry, but it has to be of extreme power. True, it could make Court cases boring, but why would the local law be using subterranean spiders, that attack Chaotic Creatures on sight? Even the Drow wouldn't use these things, maybe the mind flayers, but if your party is on trial in a mind flayer city, the fact that you can't lie in court is the least of your problems. If the DM has put the party on trial, it doesn't matter weather of not a spider is there to make them not lie, if the DM needs there to be lying, he will do something else. When you imagine who these spiders do anything, or in any possible circumstance, envision the Justicator from MM 3, the Justicator will go to The Nine Hells, to fight the Chaotic enemies of the Devils, and then goes to Celestia, and slaughters any Chaotic things it sees. Imagine that, but make it a Spider, that has magic, and lives underground.

2007-06-30, 11:36 PM
I fixed the errors, I guess when I increased the HD, I forgot to increase the BAB and saves. For the rest, I am terribly sorry for my bad math. I decreased the spot and listen by 2 apiece, and Hide and Move Silently by 1 apiece. Thanks a ton for finding those errors.
No problem.

Mitp: Yes

2007-07-27, 12:01 AM

i think it's a really cool idea maybe you could do a follow up, lie spinner or something a chaos spider that makes everyone around it lie. that would be pretty cool