Will there still be a Sapphire Guard?

[Draz74]

What will be the fate of the Sapphire Guard now?

On the one hand, their sacred mission and oaths are now obsolete. They have no gate to protect.

On the other hand, paladins who have already gone through the bother of banding together in such a tight, secretive group seem unlikely, to me, to just go inactive or even to split up and become regular, independent, adventuring paladins. Especially when it seems like Hinjo, as he goes back to learning to rule a war-torn city (assuming any of the city survives) would be most grateful to have as many trusted paladin servants and bodyguards as he can get his hands on in the near future.

It's worth noting that a number of paladins were mentioned who are currently away from the city on missions, and couldn't be called back in time to help with the war. So the Sapphire Guard does indeed still have members besides Hinjo.

O-chul is an interesting question. I'm of the opinion that he did NOT survive the explosion of the gate; that only his paralysis is keeping his eyes from being X's. But even if he is indeed in the negative HP and dead, I'd like to mention the non-finality of death in D&D again. There was a finality about Miko's passing that makes me think that she, like Shojo, won't want to come back to the Material Plane anytime soon. But O-chul? My reading of his duty-bound character says that he wouldn't mind getting some revenge on the forces of evil in the world. And even if Hinjo only has enough resources to Raise a couple people after the war, I'd think O-chul would be at the very top of his list. Better have Durkon use Speak with Dead and ask him if he wants to come back first, though, before he risks 5000 gp.

(Shame Hinjo probably won't think of prioritizing the high-level drunk wizard's resurrection. Or won't have access to Resurrection. Which would be needed for the partly-digested body. True Resurrection will probably even be needed for the high priest, with his Destructed dust scattered. Roy and O-chul on the other hand will only need Raise Dead.)

So what will be the future of the Sapphire Guard? What new mission, if any, will it have, and how much will the OotS have to keep interacting with it as they continue their adventures?

[Forevergrey]

You cannot guard sapphires where there are no sapphires to guard.

There could be a noble order of Charred Fragments Guard, but I don't see them having even half the sex appeal.

Edit: Spullingz

[Draz74]

It's easy enough to buy another sapphire to stick on the throne as a symbol of Hinjo's principles and administration. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Heck, especially when you have to build a new throne anyway!

[Elliot Kane]

I think they'll reform with new mission goals. They are all still paladins in service to the Twelve Gods, after all. They'll organise, work together, and find a new way to serve the world. It's what paladins do :)

[TheAlmightyOne]

Yeah but the sapphire guard reforming. Anybody else think that Hinjo and two nameless paladins wont quite cut it as a large militeristic force.

[Simons Mith]

I would have thought reconstructing the destroyed gates would be quite a high priority. Paladins love heroic quests against near-insurmountable odds. And if the destruction of Soon's gate has released them from their oath, perhaps the version 2.0 oath could cover protecting all the gates, not just one. OK, they might still have to exclude the two currently surviving gates, but frankly I'd try see to it that subsequent recruits swore to protect them all, if at all possible. And I'd also be sure to include coverage of "any future rifts, as yet undiscovered". I'd also expand my recruiting policy a bit to include classes other than just paladins. Whether Hinjo would have the foresight and wisdom to do all of that, I don't know. But Roy and/or Vaarsuvius just might.

Edit: To do spoiler boxes, use [spoiler]Woo! I'm invisible![/spoiler]. Which produces Woo! I'm invisible!

[Gaelbert]

Is it just me, or did that throne cut way too easily? I thought it was made of stone. And how do you code for the spoiler box?

[chibibar]

Well... We have to remember that these gates we constructed to CONTAIN the snarl.

It has taken a lot of money and power to build these gates. It can be done again. Of course in Azure City scenario the gate is VERY high in the air and very small compare to the others. This mean the Sapphire guards and lord Hinjo would have to spend a lot of money to rebuilt the castle.

Once that is accomplish resealing the gate into the sapphire again..... this portion might be harder.

[sihnfahl]

Yeah but the sapphire guard reforming. Anybody else think that Hinjo and two nameless paladins wont quite cut it as a large militeristic force.
Where in the world did you get the idea that those three are the only ones left?
In Comic 413 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html), O'Chul indicates that 'many of the paladins are away', but that at least 100 are still in the city.

[RobbyPants]

It wouldn't surprise me if they banded together under a new goal: avenge their lord/city/the saphire. Remember that a lot of them (if not all of them) are samurai. Now, they can be ronin; lordless samurai.

Or maybe not. They still have Hinjo, who is their current lord. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Still, the idea of them out for the kill instead of staying home for defense is kind of cool.

[Twilight Jack]

Where in the world did you get the idea that those three are the only ones left?
In Comic 413 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html), O'Chul indicates that 'many of the paladins are away', but that 100 are still in the city.

Additionally, all the lower level paladins in the city (about 60 of them, if O'Chul's 100 figure is correct) are currently stationed with the citizens, protecting them from the worst of the battle. Those two nameless soldiers aren't paladins, but O'Chul yet lives, as does Lien (female paladin who's got her eye on Hinjo's junk. You know, the one that personally handled his package).

[chibibar]

It wouldn't surprise me if they banded together under a new goal: avenge their lord/city/the saphire. Remember that a lot of them (if not all of them) are samurai. Now, they can be ronin; lordless samurai.

Or maybe not. They still have Hinjo, who is their current lord. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Still, the idea of them out for the kill instead of staying home for defense is kind of cool.

Hinjo is still alive so technically they are not ronin yet :)

[Ancalagon]

If Hinjo survies and Azure City gets rebuild, I do not see why there should be no Sapphire Guard.

They just do not guard the sapphire (gate) anymore... but since noone knew about that anyway, why should this change anything? As far as the city is concerned it got raided by a hostile army.

[MReav]

Additionally, all the lower level paladins in the city (about 60 of them, if O'Chul's 100 figure is correct) are currently stationed with the citizens, protecting them from the worst of the battle. Those two nameless soldiers aren't paladins, but O'Chul yet lives, as does Lien (female paladin who's got her eye on Hinjo's junk. You know, the one that personally handled his package).

The individual who personally handled Hinjo's package was a generic female soldier.

[Forevergrey]

Is it just me, or did that throne cut way too easily?

It's been cut, not just by a katana, but a Popular Perceptions of Japanese Weaponry katana. These things can cleave the hearts of dying suns.

[Twilight Jack]

The individual who personally handled Hinjo's package was a generic female soldier.

You're right, my mistake.

Damn that Hinjo gets around!

[Draz74]

Hmmm, I forgot about Lien.

I like the suggestion that the Guard will now have the new mission of vengeance. Probably vengeance, specifically, against their old enemy, the Crimson Mantle. I could see that becoming their new focus, since they already considered him something of a nemesis, even before he was "involved" (as far as they know) with the gate's destruction.

[delguidance]

The priority should be to repopulate.

Those paladins have to get. it. on.

[Forevergrey]

The priority should be to repopulate.

Those paladins have to get. it. on.

I hope you upped your DEX, CHR only gets you into the bedroom.

[Snake-Aes]

It's been cut, not just by a katana, but a Popular Perceptions of Japanese Weaponry katana. These things can cleave the hearts of dying suns.

Mythbusters tested it, I tested it(Hail traditional teachers).

My test: Cleave through a tree, pierce a stone a couple inches inside.

Myth~ test: shoot a bullet right at the blade, bullet was split in half, blade's unscathed.

[Gez]

As seen during the trial, it's okay to destroy a gate because it's possible to seal it back again later.

The surviving Sapphire Guards will still have a duty to fulfill.

[Gavin Sage]

There what 40 paladins in the throne room. Even considering there will be casualties among those not stationed there that is still dozens of paladins plus all those away from the city. Devasted but rebuildable.

A more pertinent question is whether Hinjo will still be the leader of Azure City. Once all the noble forces come back all fresh as roses against what amounts to a defeated army.

[Pyrian]

Once all the noble forces come back all fresh as roses against what amounts to a defeated army.

Or a victorious Hobgoblin army...

[EyethatBinds]

My notion is cut off the head and the body perishes. Also with the city now worthless to their leaders and Redcloak in too much pain to object I think they'll just pull out. Not a manly thing to do but basic tactics state that if you have nothing to gain from a war do not continue it.

[Forevergrey]

Mythbusters tested it, I tested it(Hail traditional teachers).

My test: Cleave through a tree, pierce a stone a couple inches inside.

Myth~ test: shoot a bullet right at the blade, bullet was split in half, blade's unscathed.

I once cut the entire universe in half with my katana. The cut is so clean you can’t even spot it when you go outside and bark at the moon.

Tree indeed.

Now, high velocity soft lead, no problem. A katana even cut a sliver off a 50. cal steel-core round. Too bad a single short burst cut it in half. It's not the be and end-all of sharp/pointy objects. Damascus steel and fine-forged european blades were just as good, and just as likely to stop the first round of the many bullets thrown at you by superiorly armed adversaries.

[MReav]

I once cut the entire universe in half with my katana. The cut is so clean you can’t even spot it when you go outside and bark at the moon.

Were you in the super mecha Ideon at the time?

[redcodekevin]

Yeah but the sapphire guard reforming. Anybody else think that Hinjo and two nameless paladins wont quite cut it as a large militeristic force.

They're not and have never been a large militaristic force. Think of them as the Jedis in the Star Wars Eps. 2, clone wars and Ep.3, where they were a small force used for bigger purposes, as in this battle they worked as heads of soldier groups as much as jedis commanded legions of clone troopers in the movies.

[Forevergrey]

Were you in the super mecha Ideon at the time?

I was but a babe-in-arms, but it mattered not.

Why would it?

I had a Katana!

[MReav]

I was but a babe-in-arms, but it mattered not.

Why would it?

I had a Katana!

Well, no, but from what I've heard, that thing had a sword that could stretch infinitely. If what I've read is correct, the mecha cut a galaxy in half at one point, and later destroyed the universe

[Forevergrey]

Well, no, but from what I've heard, that thing had a sword that could stretch infinitely. If what I've read is correct, the mecha cut a galaxy in half at one point, and later destroyed the universe

Thats far better than galaticus or the Lexx, those lack-luster planet busters had to one at a time. This of course is due to their lack of katanas.

[Jawajoey]

There are certainly Paladins to continue the Guard. Hinjo, O-Chul(?), Lien, the low level paladins protecting the citizens, the paladins away from the city. There are plenty. And they're all still paladins. The only difference now is that their former oath is irrelevant now.

Should they still be the "Sapphire Guard" now that there's no sapphire to guard? It's just a name, so maybe. Also keep in mind that most of the AC citizens don't even know it exists, let alone what its called. But that doesn't effect the reorganization of the Guard.

I think the guard will just have to reform. They won't be the Sapphire guard anymore, but they'll have the same spirit, mission, and organization. They're still paladins, they're still protectors of AC, there's still a rift in the universe to deal with, and they're still all blue. They just have to make a few changes.


And about O-Chul, I think he's alive. As unlikely as I think his survival should be, I believe he'd have XX eyes if he were dead. I base that belief on the fact that XX is an abstract portrayal of death, not a literal rearrangement of eyes. The XXs only have to do with the fact that someone is dead, not the actual shape of their eyes. Therefore, why should the physical restrictions of petrification have an effect on a change that isn't literally physical anyways?

[slayerx]

actually, Lien could be dead too... if i recall, she was only supposed to guard Hinjo's junk until it was full. Hinjo's junk was to be filled with citizens and then sent off to sea with the others. Most likely, she returned to her post with the other paladins. Grant it, if Lien was low level then she would be with the citizens... but with the hobgoblins over running the city, it's likey that the citizens ad the remaining paladins may be dead aswell by now... i'm guessing she was low level seeing as Rich would have made sure to make it clear she was amongst the guards in the throne room

[Quikngruvn]

actually, Lien could be dead too... if i recall, she was only supposed to guard Hinjo's junk until it was full. Hinjo's junk was to be filled with citizens and then sent off to sea with the others. Most likely, she returned to her post with the other paladins....

Actually, Hinjo's junk is still docked (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0460.html)-- look behind the burning city. And it seems much more likely that the boat was never launched than that it launched and came back. So till we see or hear otherwise, we have to assume she's still holding his junk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html).

As to the original question: I think the Sapphire Guard continues in some fashion, even if Azure City falls to the hobgoblin horde.

If the city does fall or is razed, Hinjo's out of a job ruling the city-- but, as the highest ranked paladin left, he still has the fallback position of reforming the Sapphire Guard.

[the_tick_rules]

he'll rebuild them and give them a new mission, if he lives.

[slayerx]

Actually, Hinjo's junk is still docked (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0460.html)-- look behind the burning city. And it seems much more likely that the boat was never launched than that it launched and came back. So till we see or hear otherwise, we have to assume she's still holding his junk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html).

As to the original question: I think the Sapphire Guard continues in some fashion, even if Azure City falls to the hobgoblin horde.

If the city does fall or is razed, Hinjo's out of a job ruling the city-- but, as the highest ranked paladin left, he still has the fallback position of reforming the Sapphire Guard.

Hmm... interesting, that would more or less confirm Lien's survival... though it does raise the question as to why the ship is still there... Hinjo isn't about personal survival and it's dangerous for the ship to remain with citizen's on board... by all means it should have left, no reason for it to remain behind

[Ithekro]

His junk is long and wide. It is probably not full of people yet as that was early this same day. This also allows for it to be used if needed by either the Order or Redcloak.