The Holiest of Spells

[Jowgen]

What spells do people think truly embody the essence of the Good alignment?

Hallow and its little sister Consecrate are big ones in my book. Atonement, if used by a good caster, very clearly fits. Protection from Evil kinda fits, but its a big generic in that every alignment has its own version

What others?

[jedipilot24]

Holy Word.

[Jowgen]

Holy Word.

I dunno, it's got it in the name; but it does kill things rather indiscriminately. If it only affected Evil creatures I think it would work, but as is...

[Red Fel]

Does Sanctify the Wicked count?

I mean, it's a Sanctified spell, so that checks a box. It's all about redemption, which is a big Good thing. Those redeemed by the spell actually get stronger (see the list of benefits of the Sanctified Creature template). Oh, and it does so by forcibly imprisoning the soul for a year and bombarding it with Goodness until it breaks, which is totally a thing ultra-Good would do.

Because Good does not equal Nice.

[Sith_Happens]

Even though it doesn't have the [Good] tag, definitely End to Strife. Anyone within 80 feet of you who attacks takes your choice of lethal or nonlethal damage.

EDIT:


Does Sanctify the Wicked count?

I mean, it's a Sanctified spell, so that checks a box. It's all about redemption, which is a big Good thing. Those redeemed by the spell actually get stronger (see the list of benefits of the Sanctified Creature template). Oh, and it does so by forcibly imprisoning the soul for a year and bombarding it with Goodness until it breaks, which is totally a thing ultra-Good would do.

Because Good does not equal Nice.

http://lp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb5840634/p4pb5840634.jpg

[OldTrees1]

The Restoration, Resurrection, and Mass* Vigor lines are quite moral spells (so if this is about Holy as in moral rather than [Good] then these are up there).

*The Vigor line are not universal cures but the AoE/Mass versions are.

[nedz]

Curing spells, for obvious reasons.

[Chronos]

Shield Other doesn't have the [Good] tag in the core rules, but BoED recommends it be added. There's nothing that says "good" more than making personal sacrifices to protect others.

Similar reasoning applies to Blood of the Martyr and Healing Hands, both of which were introduced in BoED and which do have the [Good] tag.

[Triskavanski]

Black Sphere of Destruction is a great spell for making holes.

[(Un)Inspired]

Harm. It does tons of damage but it can't actually kill anyone so it's to perfect spell for showing mercy and taking enemies alive for redemption.

[ATHATH]

Create Lantern Archon (Is there anything that spell can't do?)

Your soul is so pure/good that if you remove a chunk of it, the chunk becomes a physical embodiment of good.

Of course, that's if you use it how it was intended to be used. If you abuse it, you can do things like enslaving an army of Archons (Dominate Monster or an Incarnate Paladin) or obtain a renewable source nearly free souls for spells with Soul components (the body of an Archon, is a technically a soul due to the outsider-hood of Archons).

[Yahzi]

Zone of Truth.

[Âmesang]

This is kind of cheating, but I love epic divine spells 'cause you can easily fit them with names like benediction, providence, and judgment.

Maybe not necessarily "holy," but it should still give one that "wrath of the almighty" feel.

[Inevitability]

Zone of Truth.

Honesty isn't Good, it's Lawful.

[Andezzar]

Curing spells, for obvious reasons.I don't see the "obvious" reason. there are some pretty evil, non-undead creatures that would benefit from those spells.

[Spore]

Shield Other doesn't have the [Good] tag in the core rules, but BoED recommends it be added. There's nothing that says "good" more than making personal sacrifices to protect others.

In that sentiment I'll add something from Pathfinder:

Paladin's Sacrifice. As an immediate action you take the damage and the effects of an enemy attack. The failed saves of the target will still be failed on you. It is not super effective nor particularly flashy. But I always keep it handy because it provides for epic moments. I've saved at least two characters with it. And even if I know that this spell will probably be my downfall some day, and I will probably still do it.

Also Holy Sword. So we need a weapon to finally stop Mr McArchdemondevil from destroying this plane of existence. And all you have is tattered and broken nonmagical weapons? Make this lead pipe into a +5 Holy Lead Pipe and smite the everliving evil out of that villain.

[OldTrees1]

I don't see the "obvious" reason. there are some pretty evil, non-undead creatures that would benefit from those spells.

Isn't that a necessary feature for the spell to be an epitome of goodness? Evil people can still be injured innocents of some other evil person. When Darkseid attacks earth Superman doesn't save only the good people. When Zuko makes the mistake to side with Azula, Iroh does not give up on Zuko.

But the cure line probably is a bad example since half of it is designed to support the Burning Hate's typist crusade.

[Andezzar]

Isn't that a necessary feature for the spell to be an epitome of goodness? Evil people can still be injured innocents of some other evil person. When Darkseid attacks earth Superman doesn't save only the good people. When Zuko makes the mistake to side with Azula, Iroh does not give up on Zuko.But they can also be used to help other evil people to continue to commit evil deeds when good people try to stop them. My point is there is nothing inherently good or evil in that spell, it all depends on who uses it on whom for which reasons.

[OldTrees1]

But they can also be used to help other evil people to continue to commit evil deeds when good people try to stop them. My point is there is nothing inherently good or evil in that spell, it all depends on who uses it on whom for which reasons.

Arg1:
Since everything beneficial or harmful could be used to sustain an evildoer or harm an innocent, then this test for inherent goodness of yours seems overly harsh. Instead I suggest decreasing the tests scope to the action in question.

Arg2:
Actions separated by the free will of a moral agent have no deterministic causal relationship from the first to the second. Thus while the first action may shape what options the moral agent has, it cannot remove the responsibility of the moral agent for their own actions. Since it cannot remove the moral responsibility of the moral agent for their own action, the first action has no moral responsibility for the second action. Thus one cannot blame a cure spell merely because the healed individual then decides to do evil.

Suggested refined test:
1) Is healing prima facie moral?
2) Is there a way healing can be used such that the healing itself is morally prohibited?

Using these 2 rules while excluding the 3rd(Is there a way action X can enable morally prohibited actions?) gives us a rather practical test.

Cures still fail this test due to being viable tools for murder.

[Spore]

Can you please not derail this thread? I would appreciate it. Also we are talking about Holiness which is embodies the good alignment as good clerics can channel positive energy into turning undead (actual healing in Pathfinder).

Also you can always differenciate between:

1) Alignment Good: You kill evil people and reinforce the ongoing war between good and evil. But as long as you fight evil you are good to go in D&D (pun intended).

2) Real world Good: Comes in many different facettes and approaches. Be it the Golden rules, absolute pacifism or taking (military) action in order to prevent others from abusing their power.

And for the sake of simplicity of this thread (we talk about gaming, not politics) I hope can agree to talk about the alignment.

[Chronos]

Whence this assumption that the two are different? Yes, fighting against evil is good, but it's not all that good is. If it were, then there would be no difference between good and evil.

[Jowgen]

The book of exalted deeds, while questionable on some fronts, does define Good quite well for the most part. I mainly say this because it provides a reasonable explanation for how lesser-evil choices should be handled and why.

According to it, the nature of good consists of: Helping Others, Healing, Personal Sacrifice, Mercy, Bringing hope, Forgiveness, and Redeeming Evil.

[OldTrees1]

Can you please not derail this thread? I would appreciate it. Also we are talking about Holiness which is embodies the good alignment as good clerics can channel positive energy into turning undead (actual healing in Pathfinder).

Also you can always differenciate between:

1) Alignment Good: You kill evil people and reinforce the ongoing war between good and evil. But as long as you fight evil you are good to go in D&D (pun intended).

2) Real world Good: Comes in many different facettes and approaches. Be it the Golden rules, absolute pacifism or taking (military) action in order to prevent others from abusing their power.

And for the sake of simplicity of this thread (we talk about gaming, not politics) I hope can agree to talk about the alignment.

The OP has not identified which he meant and which is derailing so it might not be wise to presume that Alignment Good(aka [Good] without respect to good/morality) is the topic at hand.

I consider talking about good/morality to have more meaning than the alternative(see Red Fel's post for the answer to the [Good] side of the thread). For the sake of meaning in this thread (we talk about roleplaying and all it entails) I hope we can agree to talk about morality (as well) rather than restrict ourselves to only talk about [Good] spells.

[Spore]

The thread feels like a first brainstorming and a collection of exemplary spells rather than an in-depth discussion about each one's individual choices. But alas, I can understand both sides and I don't particularly care about the matter at hand further more. Happy posting. :smallsmile:

[Bronk]

I dunno, it's got it in the name; but it does kill things rather indiscriminately. If it only affected Evil creatures I think it would work, but as is...

I agree with Holy Word... not only does it affect evil, it affects those who just aren't good enough. I'd add Holy Smite for the same reason.

Edit: Opalescent Glare is pretty sweet too.