Help me build a sith please

[Raven Darkcloud]

Hello all I'm wanting to build a Sith front line fighter and was thinking multi classing into Warlock. I want to be a Human for race for certain. My inspiration for this PC is Darth Caedus (tried to post a link with info on Caedus but I'm too much of a nub). I am very new to 5th edition so any ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. The DM is starting us at level 4 BTW.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Hello all I'm wanting to build a Sith front line fighter and was thinking multi classing into Warlock. I want to be a Human for race for certain. My inspiration for this PC is Darth Caedus (tried to post a link with info on Caedus but I'm too much of a nub). I am very new to 5th edition so any ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. The DM is starting us at level 4 BTW.

Don't jump into the deep end, make sure you know the system before you start making all these plans.

For jedi/sith I've found that Monks and Clerics are the best class... But for you...

I'm assuming low optimization...


Champion Fighter (Str/Cha/Con/Wis/Dex/Int)
Strength is your highest score
Charisma is your second highest score
Con is your third highest score (you have good hit dice and second wind which at low levels isn't bad)
Wisdom is your next concern
Have dex no higher than 10
Intelligence should be an 8 unless you *need* to be smart.

Take the Criminal, Charlatan, or Soldier background.

Magic Initiate (Bard: Friends (force mind trick), Mage Hand (or Message), and Charm Person (force mind manipulation) OR Thunderwave (force push)

Get yourself some armor, a weapon, and go to town. Pick whatever helps with making your character however you like.

This makes you hardy as hell but gives you some Force Powers. Going Bard or Warlock makes you squishy unless you know how to play them correctly (tactics, yay!). Plus Warlock doesn't really come online till level 3.

[Raven Darkcloud]

Thank you for your tips we will be starting at level 4 so I was thinking 1 fighter then next 3 levels warlock. Taking pact of the tome and going the fiend route. We are using the ol' 15 14 13 12 10 8 for rolls. Trying to think if I should take dueling or great weapon. Also deciding what feat to pick up.

[adonis53]

I like the build suggested, but you could also choose witch bolt as the spell from magic initiate(force lightning).

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I like the build suggested, but you could also choose witch bolt as the spell from magic initiate(force lightning).

Don't ever take witch bolt.

There are so many issues with that spell that... Holy crap did they do a bad job. Google something like "giantitp witch bolt fix" or whatever and you will find the old thread(s) that show and explain why that spell is terrible. Just not worth it.

Edit

Take the shocking grasp cantrip of you want an electrical based attack.

Be a Tempest Cleric.

Just don't take Witch Bolt. I did because of fluff reasons and ugh, absolutely terrible.

[Rusvul]

Witch Bolt is real bad. If you really want force lightning, maybe take Chromatic Orb or Magic Missile and describe it as lightning. It's still not great but it's better mathematically than Witch Bolt.

You may also consider Eldritch Knight if you don't mind bookkeeping, the whole Weapon Bond thing is very Jedi/Sith.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Witch Bolt is real bad. If you really want force lightning, maybe take Chromatic Orb or Magic Missile and describe it as lightning. It's still not great but it's better mathematically than Witch Bolt.

You may also consider Eldritch Knight if you don't mind bookkeeping, the whole Weapon Bond thing is very Jedi/Sith.

What makes me mad isn't that the damage is poor, I could live with that.

Its that is so easy to get away from, like, it would be like if Luke just got up and walked away from the emporer's lightning... How disappointing would that have been? That's how I see witch bolt.

[djreynolds]

Is Oathbreaker out of the question?

[Rusvul]

Yeah. It has one too many limiting factors to make it worth it. If it had no attack roll to hit? Might be good if you can Entangle or otherwise immobilize. Longer range? Might be decent in enclosed spaces. Uses a bonus action instead of an action on subsequent turns? Helps utilize your bonus actions better at low levels. Higher damage? Worth setting up for.

As it is, though, it's like casting Firebolt every round: except marginally more damaging and vastly easier to shut down. Plus it uses resources, whereas a cantrip does not.

[Arkhios]

I'd take Magic Initiate (sorcerer) instead.
Take Lightning Lure, Shocking Grasp and maybe shield as the first level spell. (or thunderwave if force push is essential).
Both cantrips could be described as a seamless use of Force lightning, one is for 15 ft. range, the other for close range.

Shield is good for maintaining illusion for the uncanny knack of blocking/deflecting blaster hits (~magic missile)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I'd take Magic Initiate (sorcerer) instead.
Take Lightning Lure, Shocking Grasp and maybe shield as the first level spell. (or thunderwave if force push is essential).
Both cantrips could be described as a seamless use of Force lightning, one is for 15 ft. range, the other for close range.

This, I forgot about Lightning Lure.

Though Charm Person is still a decent 141st level spell option.

[Arkhios]

Though Charm Person is still a decent 1st level spell option.

True, Charm Person, like any other situational first level spell is a great choice for the Magic Initiate feat, as it's only usable once before your next long rest. Better yet, if it didn't scale with higher spell slots. :)


EDIT: actually, I would second and recommend Eldritch Knight. Jedi/Sith are technically the wizards of the Star Wars universe, and at the same time, they are capable warriors. Eldritch Knight is a perfect match for the force wielding warrior, whether he was a jedi or sith. Proficiency with all melee weapons and a limited amount of spells which aren't any worse than those of a wizard, that is their DC is as good both ways, depending only on how much you invest for it. And a fighter gets more ASI so it's even easier for you to max both your relevant melee abilities (either str or dex, both are viable) and intelligence. Plus, you get two cantrips from the wizard list (you could even take magic initiate (wizard) to pump up a few more cantrips into your list, and if I'm reading right, your eldritch knight would work in synergy with magic initiate (wizard) 1st lvl spell as their spells are specifically from the wizard list).

So all in all, you would get awesome hit die, con save proficiency (!), all weapons and armors, more than enough attacks per round, and up to 4th level of wizard spells (mostly abjuration or evocation, which is more than great! e.g. Lightning Lure, Shocking Grasp, Thunderwave, Charm Person, Shield at 3rd lvl from your class + any 2 cantrips and 1 first level spell with possible magic initiate).

[rollingForInit]

If you're taking Warlock Levels and want the cool at will Sith powers, just flavour Eldritch Blast. Lightning? It's described as "a crackling beam of energy". That could be lightning. It does force damage, sure, but it's the visuals you want, right? Want to do Force Push? Take the Repelling Blast Invocation, and again, use Eldritch Blast (but flavour it differently).

5 levels of Warlock makes for a great Sith or Jedi basis. Then MC into Fighter or Paladin for more front-liner abilities.

[Steampunkette]

The new College of Swords bard kit would make for a great sith.

[djreynolds]

The new College of Swords bard kit would make for a great sith.

Indeed. Good potential there. I like the charisma synergy

[JackPhoenix]

GoO Bladelock, find a way to get Sunblade. Fey pact may work too. Blade pact weapon is your lightsaber, as a GoO, you have access to Telekinesis, Phantasmal Force, telepathy and mind control, feylock gets more mind control spells but no telekinesis. Refluff Repelling Eldritch Blast as Force Push (it even does force damage!).
You may want to multiclass into monk, but it's not necessary, Armor of Shadow invocation takes care of your lower AC if you don't want to wear real armor, or multiclass in something (paladin or fighter) with heavier armor, if that's what you want

[Lonely Tylenol]

One option that I haven't seen explored here is the Bladesinger. Fluff-wise, Bladesinger has the benefit of being rooted in ancient traditions, which tend to closely guard their secrets and keep them within their traditional sects. The "elf or half-elf" restriction on Bladesinger fits closely with the concept of only those touched by the Force being able to use Force powers (instead of thinking of elves and half-elves as an entirely different race of people, it would be suitable under this circumstance to think of them as people whose connection with the Force has endowed them with certain differences which grant them unnaturally long life, a la Yoda; unusual grace and speed; and rest through meditation).

Mechanically, a certain few things happen with an Elf Bladesinger. First, elf weapon training bestows upon them a few weapon proficiencies (namely, short sword and long sword) that it can be assumed that every Jedi has, since the default lightsaber is essentially a longsword. Second, the Training in War and Song weapon proficiency grants proficiency in a specific type of (one-handed) weapon, specific to their tradition, which we can use to explain some of the more exotic lightsaber weapons that have shown up throughout the series. Third, the Bladesong ability itself confers a number of extra abilities that accurately reflect certain Jedi powers, such as using their force of mind to better deflect blows (adding Intelligence modifier to AC), unusual speed and grace (+10 feet to walking speed and advantage on Acrobatics checks), and concentration in the heat of battle (adding Intelligence modifier to Concentration checks). Eventually, you also gain Intelligence to damage, representing your ability to use your attunement to the Force to cut quickly.
The extra wizard cantrip afforded to you by High Elf allows you to have all the fluff force powers of the Jedi (such as Friends and Mage Hand) freely available early on, while also starting with at least one offensive force power (such as Lightning Lure or Booming Blade) early on. There are various Wizard spells which represent force powers, and all of them can be assumed to be the product of study (Charm Person/Suggestion/Mass Suggestion, Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning, Hold Person/Hold Monster, Nondetection/Mind Blank, Feather Fall, Jump, Counterspell, and Telekinesis all being spells with obvious force analogues, some which represent varying degrees of control as your mastery of the force improves), which makes knowing them as a Wizard not too far-fetched.
If you want specific attunement to your weapon (and commensurate powers, such as "call lightsaber to hand") to fit with the character, three levels in Fighter to get to Eldritch Knight fit in at any point after Bladesinger 2 would do it (this order represents the Jedi's initial monastic training, which comes before proper apprenticeship as a Jedi warrior), and also gets you a few extra cantrips and some more Warrior-like powers.
The only thing I haven't found out how to fit easily into the build is proficiency in Acrobatics, which I have only been able to see done through the Entertainer background, which also grants Performance. You might want to see if you can get a custom background with Acrobatics and Insight, as these are two skill proficiencies Jedi should have.

Another option, which probably more closely resembles the Sith, is a Warlock of the Blade, preferably either of the Archfey or Great Old One. My preference is to the Archfey, for two reasons: first, while the Jedi had mind control powers, they obviously didn't have mind reading powers (which GOO gives you); and second, the Jedi aren't described as using mind control on each other anywhere, which suggests some sort of mind control immunity (which Archfey provides). Regardless of which you choose, the pact you are actually making is to the intangible force (powered by either or both) known as the Midi-chlorians, or, more generally, "The Dark Side".
The Warlock gains a number of spells which can represent Force powers (Eldritch Blast accompanied by Repelling/Agonizing Blast, Friends, Mage Hand, Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Charm Person/Suggestion/Mass Suggestion, Enthrall, Hold Person/Hold Monster, Counterspell, and Glibness, to name a few), plus a number of invocations which can do the same (Beguiling Influence, Chains of Carceri, and Otherworldly Leap, for example).
Blade Pact Warlocks can summon their weapons from an extradimensional space (if magical), or simply call them into being (if non-magical), and gain proficiency in them when held, which once again lets you both reflect the hilt-turned-weapon nature of lightsabers, and the use of more exotic lightsabers (mostly by the Sith) in general, and invocations help them become competent front-line fighters. You make full use of the ability bonuses of a Half-Elf, which means you can get your proficiencies in Acrobatics and Insight racially.

This allows you to have two different mechanical representations for the two paths that one can choose (Jedi or Sith), which represent that they have overlaps, but are still distinct from the other; or, you could simply take one and have it represent both sides entirely through fluff.

Either way, your weapon should be a Sun Blade whenever possible.

[Bombasaki]

One option that I haven't seen explored here is the Bladesinger. Fluff-wise, Bladesinger has the benefit of being rooted in ancient traditions, which tend to closely guard their secrets and keep them within their traditional sects. The "elf or half-elf" restriction on Bladesinger fits closely with the concept of only those touched by the Force being able to use Force powers (instead of thinking of elves and half-elves as an entirely different race of people, it would be suitable under this circumstance to think of them as people whose connection with the Force has endowed them with certain differences which grant them unnaturally long life, a la Yoda; unusual grace and speed; and rest through meditation).

Mechanically, a certain few things happen with an Elf Bladesinger. First, elf weapon training bestows upon them a few weapon proficiencies (namely, short sword and long sword) that it can be assumed that every Jedi has, since the default lightsaber is essentially a longsword. Second, the Training in War and Song weapon proficiency grants proficiency in a specific type of (one-handed) weapon, specific to their tradition, which we can use to explain some of the more exotic lightsaber weapons that have shown up throughout the series. Third, the Bladesong ability itself confers a number of extra abilities that accurately reflect certain Jedi powers, such as using their force of mind to better deflect blows (adding Intelligence modifier to AC), unusual speed and grace (+10 feet to walking speed and advantage on Acrobatics checks), and concentration in the heat of battle (adding Intelligence modifier to Concentration checks). Eventually, you also gain Intelligence to damage, representing your ability to use your attunement to the Force to cut quickly.
The extra wizard cantrip afforded to you by High Elf allows you to have all the fluff force powers of the Jedi (such as Friends and Mage Hand) freely available early on, while also starting with at least one offensive force power (such as Lightning Lure or Booming Blade) early on. There are various Wizard spells which represent force powers, and all of them can be assumed to be the product of study (Charm Person/Suggestion/Mass Suggestion, Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning, Hold Person/Hold Monster, Nondetection/Mind Blank, Feather Fall, Jump, Counterspell, and Telekinesis all being spells with obvious force analogues, some which represent varying degrees of control as your mastery of the force improves), which makes knowing them as a Wizard not too far-fetched.
If you want specific attunement to your weapon (and commensurate powers, such as "call lightsaber to hand") to fit with the character, three levels in Fighter to get to Eldritch Knight fit in at any point after Bladesinger 2 would do it (this order represents the Jedi's initial monastic training, which comes before proper apprenticeship as a Jedi warrior), and also gets you a few extra cantrips and some more Warrior-like powers.
The only thing I haven't found out how to fit easily into the build is proficiency in Acrobatics, which I have only been able to see done through the Entertainer background, which also grants Performance. You might want to see if you can get a custom background with Acrobatics and Insight, as these are two skill proficiencies Jedi should have.

Another option, which probably more closely resembles the Sith, is a Warlock of the Blade, preferably either of the Archfey or Great Old One. My preference is to the Archfey, for two reasons: first, while the Jedi had mind control powers, they obviously didn't have mind reading powers (which GOO gives you); and second, the Jedi aren't described as using mind control on each other anywhere, which suggests some sort of mind control immunity (which Archfey provides). Regardless of which you choose, the pact you are actually making is to the intangible force (powered by either or both) known as the Midi-chlorians, or, more generally, "The Dark Side".
The Warlock gains a number of spells which can represent Force powers (Eldritch Blast accompanied by Repelling/Agonizing Blast, Friends, Mage Hand, Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Charm Person/Suggestion/Mass Suggestion, Enthrall, Hold Person/Hold Monster, Counterspell, and Glibness, to name a few), plus a number of invocations which can do the same (Beguiling Influence, Chains of Carceri, and Otherworldly Leap, for example).
Blade Pact Warlocks can summon their weapons from an extradimensional space (if magical), or simply call them into being (if non-magical), and gain proficiency in them when held, which once again lets you both reflect the hilt-turned-weapon nature of lightsabers, and the use of more exotic lightsabers (mostly by the Sith) in general, and invocations help them become competent front-line fighters. You make full use of the ability bonuses of a Half-Elf, which means you can get your proficiencies in Acrobatics and Insight racially.

This allows you to have two different mechanical representations for the two paths that one can choose (Jedi or Sith), which represent that they have overlaps, but are still distinct from the other; or, you could simply take one and have it represent both sides entirely through fluff.

Either way, your weapon should be a Sun Blade whenever possible.

Thank you for this, I got faked last night by a basilisk...and a new character was needed. I jumped on the mage wagon since I've never tried one...so...after suffering half the session without not knowing what I was doing, now I can focus on finding the concept I want to play and Bladesinger sounds amazing!

[Corsair14]

I am thinking Monk/warlock. Get warlock first for the blade then switch to monk and go to Kensai. Then alternate up 2 levels at a time for the warlock and monk from there. Makes the most sense fluffwise I think.

[Throne12]

Ok here are two builds.

1. Vhuman feat MI warlock for mage hand, friends, and hellish rebuke. As for class go paladin oath of conquest. This build is if you want a more heavy lightsaber fighter build but you are still strong in the force.

2. Vhuman feat wht ever you want. As for class go sword bard. This build is nice because you a pretty good with swords aka lightsaber but you also are a full caster and you get a lot of skills also a lot of sith are very Charismatic.

[Ventruenox]

Mödley Crüe: Dead threads do not manifest as force ghosts.